When we get new equimpment....

[AlanB]

Sorry, but IMHO one has to face the fact that Amtrak has a difficult enough time keeping what it already has, in good working order. There is no one who could convince me, that Amtrak can successfully keep something like a WiFi networking going. If Amtrak tried, it would be a lot of time and money spent, and in the end, it will end up just like the in-room video system.
The credit card authorization terminals are the best example because they don't transmit large amounts of continuous data, and don't expect/require high upload/download speeds.

A credit card machine is designed to operate within the 56kbbs limits that max out dial up. Take a look at how much bandwidth you need to do your daily routine. Currently I am DLing a couple podcasts, which take up 800kbbs. Now I would never actually use an Amtrak WiFi to DL large files-- but, stupid people will. They'll knock everybody off the net and have to have somebody reset the router-- at the very least.
Plus, if thing get slow-- can you imagine the complaints? "My YouTube video won't DL fast enough" or "My page is taking too long to load"

While operator-free wireless is in our future (technology will one day allow them to have it) and I have no doubt that light lines (Like Sounder) have a very good working WiFi system-- to have the entire Amtrak system would just be nonsense. At this point.

At the very most I think we can expect it a good investment on the Acela trainsets, and maybe BC on the NEC.

I haven't heard the results, but according to reports elsewhere on the net, Amtrak was testing Wi-Fi on Acela last year. So they are working on it.

And with regard to speed issues and such, anyone trying to download streaming video or files was automatically disconnected. It was not permitted and that was a condition of use. No idea if they'll keep such a condition, but it wouldn't surprise me. They don't have to be the end all internet service, they only need to provide enough connectivity to allow for email and general web surfing. And of course connectivity for making new Amtrak reservations. :lol:

 

[wayman]

I haven't heard the results, but according to reports elsewhere on the net, Amtrak was testing Wi-Fi on Acela last year. So they are working on it.

That's great to hear. One comment on this: while it may or may not work perfectly with 100% reliability, even just having it work most of the time will allow them to advertise it. And 1) it will work most of the time, and 2) I suspect there are a lot of travelers for whom Wi-Fi will be the tipping point that gets them to try Amtrak for the first time. Ridership in places will probably see a noticeable jump shortly after Wi-Fi's introduction and initial burst of advertising, with that revenue far exceeding the capital costs of installing the Wi-Fi in short order.

 

[amtrakwolverine]

what is the big deal. wi-fi can and does work on trains. metro link has at along with via rail Canada in Canada. all there trains have it including the Canadian. but of course via is allot better at keeping there stuff working. also how about spending the money to train the employees in manners. allot of the employees are rude hate you hate there job and just want nothing to do with you. like that one incident back in may. when the Texas eagle hit a car outside of SAN a female conductor who is in charge of taking the cars off the train and putting them on the sunset was threatening passengers with being arrested if they didn't get back on the train. SHE WAS NOT IN UNIFORM OR HAD ANY ID AND IF YOU ASKED FOR ID SHE WOULD THREATEN TO ARREST YOU IF YOU DIDN'T GET BACK ON BOARD THE TRAIN. she should have been fired.

 

[jis]

what is the big deal. wi-fi can and does work on trains. metro link has at along with via rail Canada in Canada. all there trains have it including the Canadian.

Really? Canadian has Wi-Fi? I couldn't find it using my iPhone three months back when I traveled on it.

 

[MattW]

I checked Via's site and it looks like the only trains that have WiFi are on the Quebec-Windsor corridor.

 

[WICT106]

I have to agree with Tony, here. I think that the installation of WiFi would just result in more equipment that would not be well maintained, to the point that it would make Amtrak look even more like something run-down and unreliable. When one sees any sort of non working equipment, it creates a negative impression, and creating the expectation of WiFi, then failing to deliver in excess of 99 percent reliability, will just lead to more impressions that Amtrak is something unworthy of riding. Best situation would be to lower the expectations of WiFi, and indicate to people that if they want to surf the WWW, they are better off with their own equipment.

On a side note, don't you think that some folks have enough electronic pacifiers ? Let's get the cars and locomotives first, upgrade the tracks and signaling to allow for higher speeds, get trains serving more places at more practical times of day, before worrying about any sorts of amenities or accessories.

 

[gswager]

I believe the California Capitol Corridor has Wi-Fi. They've been working on it a little longer than expected.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

Its plausible on the corridors-- but certainly not on the LD trains... especially the Western trains.

 

[Philzy]

I for one, having traveled a bit would love to see the US switch to more of a European style trainset, big windows, roomy feel. While I've grown up with the Amcans (amfleet) and am fond of them for childhood memory sake I think we could do with a switch. Amcans have small windows and are often dark, granted it can be nice when you haven't gotten much sleep but it just is depressing at times and sometimes creepy. How about something that looks modern, feels fast, maybe even goes fast?

I think it's about time that we have train car sets that look like they belong together meeting the same height and width making them look... well not like a sloppy put together mess of different odd shapes and sizes. This doesn't mean that all the railcar sets have to be connected a la Europes high speed trails but maybe it wouldn't be such a bad idea to have 3 train cars connected sharing 4 wheel trucks rather than 6, thus making a smoother ride and also cutting down on maintenance costs. Why, isn't this being done already over here?

While we at it lets take a look and see what appeals to the public since they are to be the ones who will be riding it. How about going back to simplicity, again a la Europe. We have a huge country which gets millions of visitors/tourists every year, some of which don't speak or read English. Okay, well lets face it, America was built on immigration and still to this day there are people living here from countries near and far that still don't speak the language; which is English I might add. So, Lets go put “1” and “2” and symbols on First/Business class and Coach cars, respectively. And then how about a fork and knife symbol on the food & beverage cars along with a sleeper symbol of the side of those cars. We can even do different paint schemes for Amtrak Regional trains and Amtrak Long distance trains. Maybe if we do it right international travelers visiting the states will actually consider taking Amtrak as an option rather than making it a butt of a joke. Imitation is the most sincere form of flattery, we can take a lot and learn a lot from our European rail counterparts. Sometimes simple can be really smart.

While we're at it, lets look at the fact that JetBlue, Virgin America, Frontier Airlines and any other airline offering personal entertainment device in a seat back is seen as a modern, cool, hip way to travel. Again, Imitation IS the most sincere form of flattery, but lets also realize that it also worked on helping customers in who to choose for the transport needs. Lets invest some money and buy some new cars deck them out with a little TV or Satellite radio and see if it's a hit. I can pretty much guarantee you that ridership will go up if its done correctly.

Oh and before I forget, yes lets get new coaches, but lets also get some REAL dinner cars and some comfortable sleepers. I want a real meal, not something that is nuked, so hot I can't eat it, and once it's so cold enough to eat it becomes rock hard again; thats jsut a big tease and a waste of money. How about real wine, or a real bar/lounge car while we're at it so I can get away from the screaming baby in the mothers arms.

Hey I know it's a pipe dream, but dare to dream? Who knows if this stimulus really works out and we Amtrak really gets all that money, it might not really be so far off to have a “functioning” intercity rail system in a country this size.

 

[warren]

........................................................................................................................

Hey I know it's a pipe dream, but dare to dream? Who knows if this stimulus really works out and we Amtrak really gets all that money, it might not really be so far off to have a “functioning” intercity rail system in a country this size.

There are any number of things that Amtrak needs to even get started on the road to being equal to rail travel in other countries. Unfortunately, what we see today is really the result of poor policy decisions of 50, or more, years ago. Our love affair with highways has been the worst thing that could have happened to passenger rail in the US. Unfortunately, it is always much more expensive, and it always takes much longer, to fix something that is the result of making wrong choices.

While the money we see becoming available in Washington seems like a lot (and compared to the funding normally seen by Amtrak, it is a lot, relatively speaking), it isn't anywhere nearly the amount it would take to bring a truly first rate passenger rail system to the United States. My guess is that if we spent the ENTIRE $798 Billion (or however much it is) stimulus on passenger rail, it would not be enough to have what we need.

 

[Guest_timetableflagman_*]

If I had my absolute "druthers", I'd like to see a faux return to the old, ornate Pullman Palace Car decors, at least for some cars. The paisley brocaded drapes and upholstery, faux crystal chandeliers, glassware and faux silver would be a "knock out", but only if it could be done cheaply. There could be differing patterns for different groups of cars for variety.

Otherwise, I think coaches with at least 80 seats and all roomette sleepers (with the required accessible rooms) for 40 berths would be good for maximum revenue capacity. It could be done with ample leg room and berth space.

One would-be bedroom should be a café compartment on each sleeping car for carry-out “dining” service for enjoyment at one’s seat. With trains having two or more sleepers, the sleeper next to the coaches should have the café compartment serving the coaches with a door partitioning it from the rest of that sleeper. The sleeper next to that car could have the café compartment for sleeping car passengers. These combined sleeper café cars could eliminate the need for and cost of separate dinettes or lounges. Eating at one’s seat in privacy is more to the liking of modern travelers anyway. The space in what is currently a bedroom would be ample for housing the storage and facilities of a café counter such as is on the current café cars.

Sleeping cars could be configured with one side as "couchette" class, having three berths per compartment. The other side could have two-berth roomettes. With couchettes abreast or “abeam” of the car and roomettes as they are now, 96 or at least 80 berths could be provided per car.

Each coach could be half compartment seating. This would feature compartmented seating on coach with access to sleeping car showers for double fare.

All passenger cars should be single-level and interchangeable for uniform clearances and no route or coupling restrictions.

 

[had8ley]

If I had my absolute "druthers", I'd like to see a faux return to the old, ornate Pullman Palace Car decors, at least for some cars. The paisley brocaded drapes and upholstery, faux crystal chandeliers, glassware and faux silver would be a "knock out", but only if it could be done cheaply. There could be differing patterns for different groups of cars for variety.
Otherwise, I think coaches with at least 80 seats and all roomette sleepers (with the required accessible rooms) for 40 berths would be good for maximum revenue capacity. It could be done with ample leg room and berth space.

One would-be bedroom should be a café compartment on each sleeping car for carry-out “dining” service for enjoyment at one’s seat. With trains having two or more sleepers, the sleeper next to the coaches should have the café compartment serving the coaches with a door partitioning it from the rest of that sleeper. The sleeper next to that car could have the café compartment for sleeping car passengers. These combined sleeper café cars could eliminate the need for and cost of separate dinettes or lounges. Eating at one’s seat in privacy is more to the liking of modern travelers anyway. The space in what is currently a bedroom would be ample for housing the storage and facilities of a café counter such as is on the current café cars.

Sleeping cars could be configured with one side as "couchette" class, having three berths per compartment. The other side could have two-berth roomettes. With couchettes abreast or “abeam” of the car and roomettes as they are now, 96 or at least 80 berths could be provided per car.

Each coach could be half compartment seating. This would feature compartmented seating on coach with access to sleeping car showers for double fare.

All passenger cars should be single-level and interchangeable for uniform clearances and no route or coupling restrictions.

Sounds very nice. I would like to see the same. There is a major problem. Just before the Viewliners came out Amtrak used to give each sleeper pax a "Snack Pak" which had various snacks such as crackers, cheese and sausage I believe. The Heritage sleepers starting having rat problems so bad that cleaning crews would balk at even getting on the 10 and 6's because people would just throw the uneaten food on the floor. I suspect that things wouldn't change much if every pax ate in their room. I realize that there are people served in their rooms but the attendants are usually good about picking up the trays and returning all the left overs to the diner for disposal. With 80 berths it would be almost impossible to police each sleeping compartment.

 

[AlanB]

Otherwise, I think coaches with at least 80 seats and all roomette sleepers (with the required accessible rooms) for 40 berths would be good for maximum revenue capacity. It could be done with ample leg room and berth space.

While I understand wanting to maximize revenue, one of the things that currently sets Amtrak apart from, and IMHO above, airplanes is the personal space in coaches. We currently (with a few exceptions) only put 70 seats in a short haul coach, and 59 in a long haul coach. I won't go overnight in coach as it is now, but I surely wouldn't want to if they added 21 more seats to a long haul coach and I'm betting that many others would feel the same. I'd expect a ridership drop off if people were crammed into an 80 seat coach for a 18 hour or longer trip.

 

[MattW]

For more coach capacity on Western routes, why not build Superliners that have two full-length coach levels instead of only a dozen lower-level seats. Something LIKE the Bombardier bi-level commuter cars but sized like the superlinres instead of the size they are now.

 

[AlanB]

For more coach capacity on Western routes, why not build Superliners that have two full-length coach levels instead of only a dozen lower-level seats. Something LIKE the Bombardier bi-level commuter cars but sized like the superlinres instead of the size they are now.

Because the space that's currently unused by seats on the lower level is taken over by things like bathrooms, water tanks both potable and waste, hot water heater, vacuum system, and luggage racks. Remember that on a commuter car most have no more than one bathroom, much less four. Commuter cars also don't need a huge amount of water, much less a place to store two days worth of waste water.

 

[MrFSS]

For more coach capacity on Western routes, why not build Superliners that have two full-length coach levels instead of only a dozen lower-level seats. Something LIKE the Bombardier bi-level commuter cars but sized like the superlinres instead of the size they are now.

No room -

The trucks at each end take up floor space that would be needed for seats. Plus, all the mechanical equipment, HVAC, etc are on the lower level, plus the restrooms. They have about as many seats in there as they can get on that level.

 

[Guest_timetableflagman_*]

There's nothing really magical about the number "80" seats or berths. Actually, 72 seats with two accessible spaces per coach and about 30 roomettes and an accessible room with the cafe compartment per sleeper could be ideal for AMFLEET type cars. Seventy-two seats should give almost two feet of leg room, hopefully allowing the footrests to work properly. Coach travel should be more of a rush hour commuter or day service than for overnight. However, those wishing to go overnight-- or even cross-country-- should definitely be able to do so somewhat comfortably. Even day-long trips are fine in coach. Long-distance travel should not be discouraged nor be unavailable but, it should not be the life-blood of passenger service.

However, I usually consider day travel to be a waste, hence my preference for overnight sleeping car travel. To me, day travel is more of a feature of driving or flying. That's much of the reason many misunderstand the sleeping or dining car and therefore the correct use of a passenger train in general. The train is self-contained, much like a ship. The accommodations of a train are analogous to the speed of a plane. The ability to do everything-- including sleeping, dining, lavatory, paperwork, relaxation, etc., safely, adequately and comfortably on the move is the train's hallmark. Though the train does stop for passengers, that should be tightly scheduled, resulting in a predictable, small amount of overall time.

As far as cleaning up after people in their compartments, that has to be done now. People can and do currently carry food from the cafe car to their compartments (I use the term "compartment" for any closed seating, knowing, however, that Pullman "compartments" had a specific meaning).