Will dining cars resume 12/15/20?/Flexible dining extended to May 2021?

[railiner]

In defense of sections: I actually prefer a lower berth to a roomette. The upper has no window, so it's not for me.

Some upper berth Pullman sections did have a pair of windows, although rather small. I don’t think VIA’s do....

 

[fdaley]

Some upper berth Pullman sections did have a pair of windows, although rather small. I don’t think VIA’s do....

I've never encountered a section with a window for the upper berth, though it seems like it ought to be possible. Of course, I've only encountered sections in Canada; they were pretty much extinct in the U.S. before I was riding the rails.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

Here’s photos I have of a UP sleeper in Omaha with this type of window.

The Budd Built VIA cars do not have these windows.

 

[fdaley]

Here’s photos I have of a UP sleeper in Omaha with this type of window.

The Budd Built VIA cars do not have these windows.

View attachment 19894View attachment 19895

Oh, those are small. Well, at least you'd be able to tell if the sun is up or if it's still dark out.

 

[tgstubbs1]

If they're going to have opening windows in the dining car (to mitigate the aerosol virus) they might as well bring back the outdoor lounge cars.

Kind of like those sidewalk restaurants.

 

[IndyLions]

If they're going to have opening windows in the dining car (to mitigate the aerosol virus) they might as well bring back the outdoor lounge cars.

Kind of like those sidewalk restaurants.

I don’t think you’ll find “passenger controlled” windows that open in the US anytime soon - which is a shame. I’ve seen them featured in YouTube videos of new sleepers in Europe, for instance. They didn’t open much - but enough to let in some fresh air.

We have too many lawyers on this side of the Atlantic, that’s for darn sure.

 

[Qapla]

Having double-paned windows with electric shades inside the windows would be COVID protocol friendly as well as keeping the shades from getting so dirty and torn.

 

[Mailliw]

The other day I saw this on Facebook; interesting and on topic. I can see why the McDining car didn't work out, but maybe outsourcing catering (at least on some routes) is worth considering. I know there are union issues and it might take new legislation. Doesn't the Downeaster already do this? A food service company like Sodexo likely would work out better than an chain (though I'd love it if Pret a Manger handle the NEC).

 

[crescent-zephyr]

Doesn't the Downeaster already do this?

The Downeaster staffs and supplies the cafe car. The state of Indiana had Iowa Pacific provide the dining car, staff, and service for the Hoosier State as for some time as well.

But when you bring up Sodexo... Amtrak has catering. All they have to do is order higher quality meals and they serve higher quality meals. That’s literally all it takes.

 

[me_little_me]

Amtrak has catering. All they have to do is order higher quality meals and they serve higher quality meals. That’s literally all it takes.

Plus having more of a variety. That could be different meals in each direction or different ones on different trains with them swapping once a month or so.

 

[jiml]

What they have in other countries is irrelevant.

I personally think Amtrak could benefit from a larger pool of established solutions that are less provincial and more results oriented.

Further to DA's point, very few things today are built for one market. A good example is the post-2012 Ford Escape - one of the most ubiquitous vehicles in North America. It was designed and built in Europe long before it came here. If a company like Ford chose to go with a proven model rather than start from scratch, we have to consider that Amtrak is unlikely to generate a large enough order to justify a completely new product. It would be far better for them to customize an "off-the-shelf" model, as is already being proven with the Midwest order. Unfortunately those products did not originate in North America either. It works in reverse too. I recently watched a video of German DB's new regional train by Bombardier, and darned if the coaches don't look a lot like the ones in Florida, Albuquerque, L.A., San Diego and Toronto.

 

[Trogdor]

It works in reverse too. I recently watched a video of German DB's new regional train by Bombardier, and darned if the coaches don't look a lot like the ones in Florida, Albuquerque, L.A., San Diego and Toronto.

Are you sure it’s not just a modern version of this: Bombardier Double-deck Coach - Wikipedia

 

[jiml]

Are you sure it’s not just a modern version of this: Bombardier Double-deck Coach - Wikipedia

It is, but several interior "tells" will be familiar to regular riders of Bombardier commuter coaches and the front end of the cab car is very similar to GO's new ones. The obvious difference is the lack of the "lozenge" shape, but Bombardier had already gotten away from that with its latest effort for Montreal, which also features high-platform loading on the one side of the interior stairs up and down. That part is very similar to the German models.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

I don’t think you’ll find “passenger controlled” windows that open in the US anytime soon - which is a shame. I’ve seen them featured in YouTube videos of new sleepers in Europe, for instance. They didn’t open much - but enough to let in some fresh air.

Some of the windows on UK trains open enough to stick your limbs/head out, although I would not advise doing so.

We have too many lawyers on this side of the Atlantic, that’s for darn sure.

Western Europe has more legal protections than the US and Amtrak still has windows passengers can open if they're willing to risk a reprimand. So long as windows do not easily open wide and low enough for a toddler to climb through it would probably meet most relevant safety tests. Boarding door windows are too high for a small child to escape on their own while the same cannot be said for a bedroom window. Lack of functioning compartment windows is just as likely due to FRA regulations, maintenance issues, cost considerations, HVAC design, or insurance.

 

[IndyLions]

Some of the windows on UK trains open enough to stick your limbs/head out, although I would not advise doing so.



Western Europe has more legal protections than the US and Amtrak still has windows passengers can open if they're willing to risk a reprimand. So long as windows do not easily open wide and low enough for a toddler to climb through it would probably meet most relevant safety tests. Boarding door windows are too high for a small child to escape on their own while the same cannot be said for a bedroom window. Lack of functioning compartment windows is just as likely due to FRA regulations, maintenance issues, cost considerations, HVAC design, or insurance.

Here is the video showing the passenger controlled window in the sleeper room. It’s at the 5:45 mark.



It looks like a perfectly safe window to me. To a US personal injury lawyer - it probably looks like a winning lottery ticket!

All joking aside - I’d love to see a window like that in US Sleepers. And don’t just scroll to the 5:45 mark - watch the whole video. I’m sure many of you already have. Paul’s travel videos are fantastic.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Here is the video showing the passenger controlled window in the sleeper room. It’s at the 5:45 mark. It looks like a perfectly safe window to me. To a US personal injury lawyer - it probably looks like a winning lottery ticket! All joking aside - I’d love to see a window like that in US Sleepers. And don’t just scroll to the 5:45 mark - watch the whole video. I’m sure many of you already have. Paul’s travel videos are fantastic.

I honestly don't see a problem with that setup working in the US. What I think will keep such windows from being installed on Amtrak specifically is a concern over factors like cost, maintenance, and diesel fumes rather than lawsuits. Since Amtrak is still buying LD cars with designs from the 1980's I can only guess when the next new model might be deployed. I'd prefer movable windows too but I would not want to be stuck in a room with a window that I cannot close when it's hot, cold, wet, dusty, etc. Paul's videos are great for general information but his reviews are most helpful when viewed as best case scenarios. Paul seems to buy the cheapest tickets possible and then judge the experience as if his costs were typical. Sometimes it's possible to find a similar price but when I travel the same route at double or triple his cost I tend to have a slightly stronger reaction to mistakes, oversights, and defects that he often glosses over.

 

[jiml]

There's also the risk of unwanted moisture and insects getting in and affecting seat and carpet fabric, should the windows be left open for any length of time, e.g. in the coach yard or terminus station.

 

[tgstubbs1]

There's also the risk of unwanted moisture and insects getting in and affecting seat and carpet fabric, should the windows be left open for any length of time, e.g. in the coach yard or terminus station.

Yep, and mosquitoes are the most dangerous animal on the planet. At least, that's what I read.

 

[Steve4031]

Some of the windows on UK trains open enough to stick your limbs/head out, although I would not advise doing so.


Western Europe has more legal protections than the US and Amtrak still has windows passengers can open if they're willing to risk a reprimand. So long as windows do not easily open wide and low enough for a toddler to climb through it would probably meet most relevant safety tests. Boarding door windows are too high for a small child to escape on their own while the same cannot be said for a bedroom window. Lack of functioning compartment windows is just as likely due to FRA regulations, maintenance issues, cost considerations, HVAC design, or insurance.

You are risking more than a reprimand by opening those windows on a regular basis. I learned this the hard way as a hard headed teenager on the CZ in the 80s. On one trip I tried several times to enjoy the canyons and the Colorado River from the open window in different coaches to avoid annoying the same attendant. Eventually the conductor was notified and I was told that the next time I would be put off the train. This reprimand was well deserved and the conductor was right since I had been reprimanded a few times by different attendants.

 

[Ferroequinologist]

If you ever checked the last-minute deals on Canadian fares, there were usually some berths available. But even if they don't sell out, some were occupied on my trip. Why spend to take them out as long as they're pulling in fares?

I wouldn't eliminate them until all equipment has been replaced with new.

 

[jis]

It is, but several interior "tells" will be familiar to regular riders of Bombardier commuter coaches and the front end of the cab car is very similar to GO's new ones. The obvious difference is the lack of the "lozenge" shape, but Bombardier had already gotten away from that with its latest effort for Montreal, which also features high-platform loading on the one side of the interior stairs up and down. That part is very similar to the German models.

Notwithstanding your fervent hopes, in actuality the flow of design at Bombardier has been from Europe to the Americas and not the other way round, as far as following any available documentation suggests.