Wish List for Amtrak/Train Service Expansions

[brianpmcdonnell17]

It's not a hopeful indicator that a South of the Lake site I'd bookmarked -- http://greatlakesrail.org/-- has gone dead.

For a couple of years it had amused me by changing only a few words on its home page ... to the effect that studies would be completed and a Record of Decision announced "by the end of the summer, by the end of the year, in about six months, by the end of the fiscal year" ... but now this.

And I miss the information that was unchanging. As best I recall, the plan is/was? to upgrade the route, chop the run times, and add frequencies until the Wolverines ran 8? or 9? or was it 12? times a day. Now I can't go back to check the particulars.

I am not familiar with the plans, but I would much rather see additional frequencies on the Pere Marquette and Blue Water rather than so many additional Wolverines. An International restoration or Cleveland day train would be even better, but that is well beyond the scope of this project.
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[neroden]

Last time I contacted Michigan DOT regarding South of the Lake they claimed they were being delayed by the FRA. I don't know whether to believe them or not; it could be Michigan DOT causing the delays as well, of course.

 

[thully]

My wish list (admittedly based on personal experience trying to take Amtrak places) would include:

A cross-border Chicago-Detroit-Toronto train, run jointly by Amtrak and VIA Rail as the Maple Leaf is (and former International Limited was). Perhaps additional Windsor corridor frequencies terminating in Michigan (operated by VIA alone - would basically be the inverse of Amtrak’s Cascades and Adirondack operating in Canada).

An intra-Michigan corridor train connecting east to west - Detroit-Ann Arbor-Lansing-Grand Rapids-Holland (perhaps up to Traverse City and south to Toledo). Or at least give us decent Thruway bus connections in Michigan timed to meet the existing trains - most of the current ones have annoyingly-long layovers.

An LD train connecting Michigan to the NEC via Toledo without early morning/late night bus transfers in Toledo (the transfer to the LSL is the worst - I’ve always taken the CL eastbound to avoid that awful boarding time/layover from the Ambus). Perhaps the intra-Michigan train could operate to TOL and join with a train from CHI there.

Connections between the Vermonter and CHI-bound long distance trains (currently impossible without an overnight) Perhaps some schedule adjustments could be made here.

Revived New Orleans-Florida service - could be a separate daily train as opposed to revived Sunset Limited service

An overnight train San Diego-Los Angeles-San Francisco (either SF directly using the tracks used by Caltrain, or Oakland/Emeryville with possible Sacramento extension and connection to the California Zephyr). Perhaps even just operate it as an extension of the Zephyr EMY-LAX-SAN.

 

[Philly Amtrak Fan]

Totally agree with you on the Michigan service. Michigan has only state supported service, it has zero long distance rail service. If you're heading west of Chicago you can hop a train to Chicago and take a train to California or Texas. But if you want to head from Michigan to the East Coast (New York, DC, or Florida) it's the Thruway to Toledo and wait for the CL or LSL during the graveyard shift. Once South of the Lake gets fixed, hopefully a CHI-NEC train via Michigan becomes feasible whether it's my proposed "Motown Philly" or the rerouted LSL or a 2nd LSL.

 

[LookingGlassTie]

Hmmm, having two daily Northeast Regionals to/from Norfolk, VA. (two northbound and two southbound).

 

[railiner]

There are a lot of interesting, and some rather grandiose wishes in this thread.

I had a much more basic wish....extending some Downeaster's from Brunswick to Bangor. I had thought that it shouldn't be too 'far out'....but then I read this excellent article, that sheds some realistic facts

about why such an extension is unlikely. Probably can apply to some of the other proposal's in this thread....

http://bangordailynews.com/2017/02/18/news/bangor/passenger-trains-in-bangor-a-vision-of-the-future-or-a-pipe-dream/

 

[Pere Flyer]

I posted a version of this in the "Expanding the Amtrak Route Map" thread and thought it appropriately wishful for this one:

Amtrak service to Michigan's Upper Peninsula (perhaps named Superior Regional). I'd love to take a train from Chicago up the Wisconsin coast to Menominee, Escanaba, St Ignace, L'Anse, Marquette, Munising, Tahquamenon, and Sault Ste. Marie. Who wouldn't want to take a camping trip by train?

More grandiose, build a five mile rail bridge across the straits of Mackinac and extend the Pere Marquette through Muskegon, Ludington, Traverse City, Petoskey, Mackinaw City, and across the straits to St Ignace and Sault Ste Marie. Or, for a real pipe dream, make a rail "chunnel" Mackinaw City-St Ignace as a mini Gateway project (once the Mich legislature feels like spending money again). Time it with removing 64-year-old Enbridge Line 5 and save a bit of money.

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[Green Maned Lion]

I want a Winnipeg Express with stops in New York, Albany, Buffalo, Cleveland, Chicago, Milwaukee, St. Paul, Fargo, and Winnipeg.

 

[MARC Rider]

I want a through train Washington - Baltimore - Philadelphia - New York -Boston - Dublin - London.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tunnel_Through_the_Deeps

http://www.iol.ie/~carrollm/hh/n13.htm

As you can see, this idea is not my own.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Your posted suggestion has more validity than mine my reason is I live sorta Near New York and Winnipeg is my favorite city.

 

[neroden]

There are a lot of interesting, and some rather grandiose wishes in this thread.

I had a much more basic wish....extending some Downeaster's from Brunswick to Bangor. I had thought that it shouldn't be too 'far out'....but then I read this excellent article, that sheds some realistic facts

about why such an extension is unlikely. Probably can apply to some of the other proposal's in this thread....

http://bangordailynews.com/2017/02/18/news/bangor/passenger-trains-in-bangor-a-vision-of-the-future-or-a-pipe-dream/

It's possible. Given the lengths by which Maine passenger rail has expanded (a short stretch at a time), I'd probably try for Augusta first (it's on the way, and getting state legislators to take the train always helps).

 

[JRR]

New Orleans to Jax or Orlando. Right now us Florida types have to go to DC to go anywhere!

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[dlagrua]

IMO, a weakness in the system is that there are no more direct routes from the East to Kansas City. Amtrak once had routes West from NYP and WAS to KCY. One went through PGH an IND to KCY the other went through WV (National Ltd?) . Now all routes go through CHI and this makes the trip that much longer and more expensive.

The other weakness in the system is that there is no more direct route from CHI to FL, making a train trip essentially non-competitive with other forms of transportation. Unless the mentality about train travel in Washington changes, we will never see these routes again.

 

[railiner]

I guess what you meant is that if you want to go East/West across the country, you have to go through either Chicago or New Orleans....no alternate routes via St. Louis, or Memphis 'gateway's'

One could say there is more than one route between the East and Kansas City, if you look at the several options between the East and Chicago (Lakeshore, Capitol, or Cardinal); and then between Chicago and Kansas City via either the Chief or the Missouri River Runner's....but all via Chicago.

Amtrak's National Limited went NYP-HAR-PGH- COL-IND- EFG-STL-KCY...and there was a WAS-HAR section. The train did cross the northern panhandle of WV at Weirton, but did not stop there.

The pre-Amtrak, B&O National Limited did cross most of WV, on its Washington-CIN-STL routing...

 

[Philly Amtrak Fan]

New Orleans isn't feasible for East-West connections since the Crescent-SL and CONO-SL aren't same day connections like the connections in CHI are (not to mention the SL isn't daily).

 

[railiner]

Not a same day connection, but it is still an alternate route....and some might consider a night or two in New Orleans as a plus...

 

[LookingGlassTie]

Two wishes:

1. A new Gulf Coast route between New Orleans and Jacksonville

2. A route between Norfolk, VA and Roanoke, then through Bristol and on to Knoxville and Nashville. The leg between NFK and RNK can be the Northeast Regional, and then a new route between Roanoke and Nashville.

 

[Anderson]

I like the idea of the second; the main question in my mind on the VA routes is how much cross-state business is there to be had (followed by "Which of the various paths across the state should be used?"). What I would see would be a train leaving NYP sometime in the early afternoon, arriving in Roanoke in the evening, and then overnighting to Knoxville. To be fair, I'd probably also run the train through to Memphis (or even Dallas/Fort Worth), though I'd be curious as to how big the operating hole would be in each case (as there are some cases where extending a train significantly improves the operating picture because of through traffic, connections, etc.; MEM adds a connection to the CONO, while DAL/FTW adds in the Texas Eagle/Sunset Limited, Heartland Flyer, and potentially Texas Central).

 

[Tarm]

Have the eastbound LSL leave three hours earlier. Run it across southern Michigan and turn it south to Toledo at Ann Arbor on the Ann Arbor Railroad. The grade is in but the interchange track will need to be rebuilt. Keep the ambus but run it Saginaw, Flint, Detroit, Dearborn, ending at Ann Arbor. Ann Arbor will become the southeast Michigan regional station for east coast passengers. The reroute will add 90 minutes or so to the trip so the Toledo stop would be 90 minutes earlier than now. I would leave the westbound schedule the same with an arrive time in Ann Arbor at 7am or so. The Ann Arbor Railroad is a short line and I do not know of the condition of their tracks. The CL can then be the late train out of Chicago cutting down the wait time for the Philly train and also the SM to Florida.

Tarm

 

[Philly Amtrak Fan]

I totally second Tarm's comments!

It's about a week and a half old but you can comment here as well:

https://ntbraymer.wordpress.com/2017/11/16/hey-amtrak-and-others-lets-get-some-things-done/

 

[west point]

The ideal IMO would be for the LSL and Capitol connect at Toledo. That would require schedule adjustment for 1 or both of the trains but one would go to Michigan then CHI and the other direct. This gives connections for both trains intermediate stations from the east to the intermediate stations west of Toledo. Capitol should probably be the direct train since it carries more end to end passengers.

Of course Pennsylvanian connections to the Capitol need consideration.

 

[user 13416]

Two wishes:

1. A new Gulf Coast route between New Orleans and Jacksonville

2. A route between Norfolk, VA and Roanoke, then through Bristol and on to Knoxville and Nashville. The leg between NFK and RNK can be the Northeast Regional, and then a new route between Roanoke and Nashville.

 
I'd settle for just a second, late-morning Regional departure from NFK. The afternoon NPN departure leaves too late to connect to anything at PHL and NYP.

 

[Palmetto]

Albuquerque-Denver-Cheyenne-Billings-Spokane.

 

[railiner]

The ideal IMO would be for the LSL and Capitol connect at Toledo. That would require schedule adjustment for 1 or both of the trains but one would go to Michigan then CHI and the other direct. This gives connections for both trains intermediate stations from the east to the intermediate stations west of Toledo. Capitol should probably be the direct train since it carries more end to end passengers.

Of course Pennsylvanian connections to the Capitol need consideration.

That would mean the LSL and the Capitol would essentially be on the same schedule from Cleveland to Toledo....

Only two trains a day on a route should be separated as widely as possible to give rider's a choice of schedules....

I think the ideal, would be to have the LSL, the Capitol and a third train (could be the Pennsylvanian) separated by 8 hours to yield the most choice. Possibly adjust that somewhat to make end times work out better...

And as far as Michigan, I would run a couple of Chicago Detroit trains to Toledo, and only one of them up to Pontiac.......

 

[Philly Amtrak Fan]

Albuquerque-Denver-Cheyenne-Billings-Spokane.

Interesting. That could connect the western trains. Albuquerque-Denver sounds a lot like Front Range? What would the tracks be for those routes (who owns them?) Seems like a lot of miles to me (over 1000).