X-Train Chugging Along?

[johnny.menhennet]

Tracks 1 and 3 (1 being the closest to the station buildings) at Fullerton can both access the mainline toward the Transcon and Vegas. The only track without access to the Transcon is the stub track recently built by Metrolink and OCTA.

Aloha

Johny I believe you are mistaken as when the Southwest Chief departs LAX it crosses to track 1 before the Fullerton station as the turn to the east (Riverside) is just south of the station.

Right at the Lemon St. underpass, just east of the platforms used by the Surfliners, there is a crossover that would allow this to happen.

 

[GG-1]

Tracks 1 and 3 (1 being the closest to the station buildings) at Fullerton can both access the mainline toward the Transcon and Vegas. The only track without access to the Transcon is the stub track recently built by Metrolink and OCTA.

Aloha

Johny I believe you are mistaken as when the Southwest Chief departs LAX it crosses to track 1 before the Fullerton station as the turn to the east (Riverside) is just south of the station.

Right at the Lemon St. underpass, just east of the platforms used by the Surfliners, there is a crossover that would allow this to happen.

Aloha

After my post I looked at the Google maps of the area. Tracks 1 & 2 turn towards Riverside. The Platforms are on Tracks 1 & 3. There is no way that a train from track 3 can make the turn towards Riverside and reach Vegas. This is why the Desert Wind, when it ran, and Southwest Chief East bound board at track 1.

 

[johnny.menhennet]

Tracks 1 and 3 (1 being the closest to the station buildings) at Fullerton can both access the mainline toward the Transcon and Vegas. The only track without access to the Transcon is the stub track recently built by Metrolink and OCTA.

Aloha

Johny I believe you are mistaken as when the Southwest Chief departs LAX it crosses to track 1 before the Fullerton station as the turn to the east (Riverside) is just south of the station.

Right at the Lemon St. underpass, just east of the platforms used by the Surfliners, there is a crossover that would allow this to happen.

Aloha

After my post I looked at the Google maps of the area. Tracks 1 & 2 turn towards Riverside. The Platforms are on Tracks 1 & 3. There is no way that a train from track 3 can make the turn towards Riverside and reach Vegas. This is why the Desert Wind, when it ran, and Southwest Chief East bound board at track 1.

I understand that without a crossover, it would be impossible for a train from the southbound (#3 as we're calling it) to get to Riverside. I still believe that that crossover exists though. I guess we'll just leave it here at a polite disagreement, both of us at least aware of the situation.

 

[Trogdor]

Both tracks 1 and 3 at Fullerton can proceed to the BNSF San Bernardino sub/Riverside. However, the Southwest Chief always uses track 1 due to the amount of checked baggage and the issues with getting that baggage across the tracks over to track 3.

Metrolink 700-series trains to Riverside will use track 3, because they do not have the checked baggage requirement. If the Chief did not have those baggage issues, it would use track 3 as well.

If you look on Google Earth, you'll see that there is a left-hand crossover immediately east of the platform at FUL that a train on track 3 could use to continue to Riverside.

Edit: Here's a view of the location (I'm not sure if this link leads directly to the Google Earth view, or if you have to go into the corner of the screen and change it manually): http://goo.gl/maps/P3CmM

 

[johnny.menhennet]

Both tracks 1 and 3 at Fullerton can proceed to the BNSF San Bernardino sub/Riverside. However, the Southwest Chief always uses track 1 due to the amount of checked baggage and the issues with getting that baggage across the tracks over to track 3.

Metrolink 700-series trains to Riverside will use track 3, because they do not have the checked baggage requirement. If the Chief did not have those baggage issues, it would use track 3 as well.

If you look on Google Earth, you'll see that there is a left-hand crossover immediately east of the platform at FUL that a train on track 3 could use to continue to Riverside.

Edit: Here's a view of the location (I'm not sure if this link leads directly to the Google Earth view, or if you have to go into the corner of the screen and change it manually): http://goo.gl/maps/P3CmM

Thank you Trog. That is the crossover I was referring to.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Sounds like an entertaining project to be watching.

Cars like these?



They look like two level?

Those are Superliners AFAIK, not the cars to be used on the X-Train or ex-Metra carts.

 

[johnny.menhennet]

Sounds like an entertaining project to be watching.

Cars like these?



They look like two level?

Those are Superliners AFAIK, not the cars to be used on the X-Train or ex-Metra carts.

Not quite. These are the Hi-Levels.

 

[jis]

So it looks like X-Train will be crewed by Amtrak.

From the S&P Report on Las Vegas Railway Express Inc. (XTRN):

The company has a Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) with AMTRAK to take

over passenger rail services along the Las Vegas to Los Angeles route and is

negotiating with AMTRAK to provide train and engine employees to operate the

locomotives. Las Vegas Railway needs to secure rail trackage rights over the two

Class I railroads owned by Burlington Northern Railway (BNSF) and Union Pacific

Railroad. XTRN has a preliminary agreement with Union Pacific but is still

negotiating with BNSF. Part of these negotiations include an agreement to pay a

competitive market rate in exchange for securing the ability to bypass slower and

longer freight trains in order to meet the X Train's schedule. According to these

agreements, BNSF and Union Pacific will continue to be responsible for track

maintenance.

You can see the whole report here

 

[Anderson]

You have no idea how strange it is to be actually getting passenger rail news off of stock market reports.

Actually, a corporate history question: It says in the report that Liberty Capital Asset Management bought out LVRE and took on their name. Who owned/ran the previous LVRE?

 

[GG-1]

Aloha

Today at the NSRM we were discussing the Xtrain and we concluded the train would fit in the track schedule, what we could not figure out where the train would be serviced and stored in the California end of the route.

 

[stntylr]

If they are using Amtrak employees it would seem they would be planning on using the Amtrak yard in L.A.

 

[Trogdor]

If they are using Amtrak employees it would seem they would be planning on using the Amtrak yard in L.A.

Not necessarily. From what I can tell, the MoU only covers conductors and engineers.

 

[johnny.menhennet]

I don't know if I had seen it mentioned, but something that really needs to be done for the X-Train is to add a stop in San Bernardino. The Inland Empire is a huge market for Vegas, and nobody in their right mind will drive to Fullerton to go right back through San Bernardino/Riverside on the train. It would add 5-10 minutes, but be so worth it. Heck, you could even probably charge almost the same amount of money. It seems like in many of these plans, the IE is left out. I mean driving the 25-30 miles to Victorville would be really annoying, or much further if from Riverside.

 

[afigg]

More news on the X-Train. Las Vegas Railway Express states that they have reached an conditional agreement with Union Pacific to use UP tracks to Vegas. If the agreement holds, big step forward for the X-Train.

LAS VEGAS, NV--(Marketwire - Nov 16, 2012) - Las Vegas Railway Express, Inc. (LVRE) (OTCQB: XTRN) and Union Pacific Railroad have signed a conditional agreement to provide passenger service on Union Pacific-owned right of way between Las Vegas, Nev., and Daggett, Calif. This agreement is contingent upon LVRE fulfilling a variety of conditions in a specified time frame. LVRE plans to operate an expedited luxury train service between the Los Angeles basin and Las Vegas through the use of Union Pacific track. Known as the "X Train," the service is currently scheduled for commencement in late 2013.

"We are proud that Union Pacific is working with us on this exciting and historic project," commented Michael Barron, President and CEO of Las Vegas Railway Express, Inc. "This moment will be long remembered as an important milestone in providing a great experience for X Train customers."

 

[GG-1]

Aloha

Reading that article, it reinforces what I believe, that it will not be useful to Vegas residents wanting to go to the LA area

 

[Anderson]

Aloha

Reading that article, it reinforces what I believe, that it will not be useful to Vegas residents wanting to go to the LA area

Which article?

And Rob: I tend to agree...this seems to be a case of "Get something, anything, running and go from there."

Edit:

I've glanced over LVRE's financials a few times. Right now, the objective seems to be to run the most simple, most straightforward operation possible with the least capital investment possible. That means only using two stations, grabbing old equipment, running a limited number of trains, etc.

If the operation is successful, I'd expect them to try to add sets of equipment, buy a few more slots in the schedule, and potentially add another couple of stations (San Bernadino and LAUS are the obvious ones). But let's all remember that even the San Joaquins began as one train per day OKJ-BFD and it's now 4/day OJK-BFD and 2/day OKJ-SAC. Even big things start small, and it's not like LVRE has a couple hundred million dollars laying around to buy three slots per day in each direction, build new stations, and buy new trains.

 

[Rob_C]

Johnny, I'd be very surprised if they don't add a San Bernardino stop as well as try to get a slot at LAUPT in fairly short order after establishing service. They're just scrambling to get *anything* going at this point.

Rob

 

[afigg]

A link to a SEC filing by Las Vegas Railway Express summarizing the agreement with UP was posted on Trainorders. Has some interesting numbers: LVRE has to place $27.4 million in escrow to reimburse UP for certain improvements prior to start of service, then LVRE has to place an additional $29.2 million in escrow within 2 years for additional improvements. That is a lot of money for a twice a week train service. Either LVRE has plans for expanded service, such as daily, in the future to justify $56.6 million in UP improvements or maybe they have casino backers who think they can use the X-Train service to attract enough high rollers from LA to justify the expense.

If LVRE does manage to pay for $56 million in UP track improvements and then goes under, Amtrak could use those track improvements to start their own LA to Las Vegas daily train, but with subsidies from either state of Nevada or the city of Las Vegas as a subsitute until the Xpress West HSR service is up and running.

 

[Anderson]

That's slightly steep, but in terms of the price of a slot in most cases does seem to run about $100 million for a once-daily round trip (or at least, that seems to be the working assumption in VA, all else being equal). So, that's ot actually an unreasonable price, especially considering that serious requests do tend to vary in what they go for.

 

[Rob_C]

Wow, still a big chunk of change! But what about the *other* white elephant in the room? How much is BNSF going to want to run the train the other half of the way from FUL to BAR over Cajon?

Rob

 

[afigg]

Wow, still a big chunk of change! But what about the *other* white elephant in the room? How much is BNSF going to want to run the train the other half of the way from FUL to BAR over Cajon?

Possibly not that much, except for full up trackage fees. There have been capacity and track improvements in the LA and Inland Empire region funded by the state, local, & federal governments for freight and Metrolink. The Colton flyover is supposed to be completed by 2013, IIRC. BNSF has completed upgrades to its Transcon line with a 3rd track. These improvements were called out in the 2007 Las Vegas to LA corridor service study, so the X-Train can take advantage of the improvements between Fullerton to Barstow by starting service late next year without having to pay for them. The upgrades that have not been done, if I following it right, are the upgrades for the UP line from Barstow to Vegas. I think much of the data, planning and backup documentation for the X-Train proposals come from that 2007 study.

Still, $27.4 million upfront to pay UP for track improvements is going to be a major test of how viable and real LVRE is. If they want to start service late 2013, I think they would have to put up the $27.4 million soon so UP can get started on the track upgrades.

 

[cirdan]

This seems to be about very big numbers.

It could of course be that because they are paying for the infrastructure upgrades, that UPRR will be soft on access charges.

It still makes me wonder how much revenue the X-train must be projecting?

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Is the X-Trains seriously going to make a profit or will it just be a flop? Many private trains in the USs were supposed to make money but went bankrupt.

 

[GG-1]

Many private trains in the USs were supposed to make money but went bankrupt.

Yet many bankrupt companies made millions for their owners.
Aloha

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Many private trains in the USs were supposed to make money but went bankrupt.

Yet many bankrupt companies made millions for their owners.
Aloha

Oh, I mean, bankrupt then shut down.