Tracking FY 2024-25 Ridership and Finances

shop deals on amazon
Shop deals on ebay
Advertise with us
Amtrak Unlimited Discussion Forum

Help Support Amtrak Unlimited Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
So @west point made the observation that once 176 was expanded to Lynchburg ridership held steady on the Crescent, but passenger miles increased. This indicated that sellouts and price pressure at the top of the corridor were present, and once the NER diverted some of that traffic up top latent demand actualized below. Given there was once a busy MSP cut car, I suspect we could see the same phenomenon.

I totally agree about total ridership. I also remember seeing somewhere 148k for estimated Borealis ridership. I think that will be a very low estimate.
 
Septa9739 said:
I totally agree about total ridership. I also remember seeing somewhere 148k for estimated Borealis ridership. I think that will be a very low estimate.
Click to expand...
I agree completely. I have seen several different estimates over the years, for some reason, one of which was something really small like 110 to 120k. If the ridership for the Borealis' first full year is below 200,000 at this point, I might actually be surprised, given how strongly it has started out. I think only way it would fall closer to the estimates is unforeseen issues like weather taking out tracks/bridges causing temporary suspension, or major equipment issues. But given how new the service is (and how important showcasing new services is to Amtrak), it's more likely that the Borealis will be prioritized for equipment!
 
Not to be a broken record, but Amtrak say the Borealis can get Amfleet carriages and another frequency, if Minnesota pays. Maybe that was loose talk by Amtrak, don't know.

And Virginians know that northbound the LD's will likely be late, as with the eastbound Empire Builder. In olden days, fine dining made a roomette sort of worth it even for a short trip, with two people. Nowadays the LD base fares are two to three times higher than the NER - though that can change closer to departure, as the NER's fill up, it seems. Some ridership and bucket-filling correlates to college schedules.

I guess people know U. Minn. is the only one of the traditional Big 10 schools in a major city, other than Northwestern, and still is in the top three in enrollment, at 55,000.
 
JamesWhitcombRiley said:
Not to be a broken record, but Amtrak say the Borealis can get Amfleet carriages and another frequency, if Minnesota pays. Maybe that was loose talk by Amtrak, don't know.
Click to expand...
I've not heard anything about the Borealis getting Amfleet. Hasn't been discussed among MN advocates, at least, from what I've heard. WisDOT received Corridor ID money to study a third Borealis frequency; that study should be getting started this summer. Although MN was the laggard in funding the initial Borealis frequency, it's a "all the state partners would need to pay" (mostly MN and WI but also IL) to get another frequency.

Yes, there is massive ridership potential from UMN alone, along with the large and train/transit friendly population of younger urban dwelling folks in the Twin Cities. Not to mention students from the Cities going to Winona (multiple colleges, mainly Winona State), or even to Milwaukee or Chicago-area schools, and of course the reverse with Chicago students going to TC-area colleges, even beyond UMN.
 
To follow-up on my previous post (generally and because I think some other posts that I received notifications for were deleted), the "Minnesota needs to pay" statements are about getting new *rolling stock* for the Borealis, specifically. My apologies for being so definitive--I think I saw a separate post with the quote from Amtrak's Marc M. about that, but I had assumed the above post from @JamesWhitcombRiley referred to Minnesota alone having to pay for new *service*, not for new rolling stock. All the states would need to pay for the potential second Borealis trip/3rd daily trip in the CHI-MSP corridor, of course.
 
thefirewarde said:
317 riders per train is downright respectable. It'll be interesting to see how winter and holiday travel affects things.
Click to expand...
Indeed! Same here. Although the Amtrak and other folks who have hyped the "college students will take this train so much" might be a bit overestimating that demographic accounting for a giant amount of ridership, it will definitely be a boon in the colder months. I imagine that many students who wouldn't have (or their parents wouldn't have considered letting them) taken the Builder due to its wild unpredictability, worse schedule especially arriving late on the western end of the route, etc., will give the Borealis a try. Even if during the school year there's only ~200 college students (across all stations) a week who use the train during peak travel times, and a few dozen on certain weekends or other random times, you're probably talking thousands of extra riders, often coming at times when leisure travel in the Upper Midwest is quieter.
 
Also, the lower price point is a big deal for some of that demographic. Bike service would also be a boon if they can work that out - college kids without cars aren't a huge market but every rider helps.

Also, with seat calcs don't forget the 15 business seats in the cafeteria car.

Question for the more informed rolling stock folks, are there any of the hybrid business/coach cars NOT in the Venture pool? It seems like adding 36 or so business seats plus some coach capacity would be the next logical addition, but I don't know if there are any non-Venture coaches set up that way right now, much less if they're in the Midwest.
 
I, while waiting for someone to bother to publish June’s report, threw together this competitive ranking chart of MAY YTD 2019 and MAY YTD 2024. It may be neat to looks at how one’s choice routes stack up. It also helps sho national trends, the significant missing ridership on the old major corridors, the rapid growth of some smaller ones, the issues with long distance, and the rapid and exponential growth of the NER. I’d be curious what else people might find.
Rank20192024
1NER 5,822.9NER 7051.9
2Acela 2,377.9Acela 2,127.6
3PacSurf 1,743.6PacSurf 1,219.8
4CapCor 1,181.2Emp S 883.8
5Keystone 1,054.7Keystone 870.1
6EmpS 795.1CapCor 689.7
7SanJoaquin 709San Joaquin 601.7
8Hiawatha 562.8Cascades 546.3
9Cascade 504.7Hiawatha 438.2
10Lincoln 406.5Springfield S 396.4
11Downeaster 345.1Lincoln 375.7
12Wolverine 321.1Downeaster 374.9
13Starlight 268.9WAS-NFK 332.2
14Silver Star 262.1Empire N 321.1
15CA Zephyr 260.5Wolverine 276.5
16Empire B 253.6Lakeshore Ltd 260.7
17Empire N 245.0Silver Star 253.6
18Springfield S 235.6Piedmont 243.9
19Silver Meteor 229.1WAS-NPN 242.7
20Palmetto 224.6Palmetto 241.1
21Lakeshore Ltd 223.5Empire Builder 235.5
22WAS-NPN 215.7Starlight 235
23Eagle 209.7CA Zephyr 233.3
24SW Chief 204.4Carolinian 229.7
25Crescent 189.2WAS-RNK 221.9
26Illini 176.9Eagle 215.1
27Carolinian 169.6Crescent 203.5
28Auto Train 158.4Illini 195.8
29CONO 156.1Silver Meteor 193.5
30Piedmont 147.5Auto Train 182.7
31WAS-LYN 143.6SW Chief 167.5
32PA 137.7CONO 159.2
33WAS-NFK 128.4PA 148.3
34Capitol Ltd 127.1MO River 116.5
35IL Zephyr 125.7Blue Water 108.4
36Blue Water 116.2Capitol Ltd. 101.6
37MO River 101.7WAS-RVR 97.0
38WAS-RVR 90.9IL Zephyr 90.8
39Adirondack 69.2Vermonter 72.5
40Cardinal 68.7Cardinal 60.5
41Vermonter 63.8P. Marquette 58.3
42P. Marquette 60.8Ethan Allen 56.9
43Sunset Ltd 60.5Adirondack 55.7
44Heartland 43.7Sunset Ltd. 52.6
45Ethan Allen 30.6Heartland 51.2
 
Septa9739 said:
I, while waiting for someone to bother to publish June’s report, threw together this competitive ranking chart of MAY YTD 2019 and MAY YTD 2024. It may be neat to looks at how one’s choice routes stack up. It also helps sho national trends, the significant missing ridership on the old major corridors, the rapid growth of some smaller ones, the issues with long distance, and the rapid and exponential growth of the NER. I’d be curious what else people might find.
Rank20192024
1NER 5,822.9NER 7051.9
2Acela 2,377.9Acela 2,127.6
3PacSurf 1,743.6PacSurf 1,219.8
4CapCor 1,181.2Emp S 883.8
5Keystone 1,054.7Keystone 870.1
6EmpS 795.1CapCor 689.7
7SanJoaquin 709San Joaquin 601.7
8Hiawatha 562.8Cascades 546.3
9Cascade 504.7Hiawatha 438.2
10Lincoln 406.5Springfield S 396.4
11Downeaster 345.1Lincoln 375.7
12Wolverine 321.1Downeaster 374.9
13Starlight 268.9WAS-NFK 332.2
14Silver Star 262.1Empire N 321.1
15CA Zephyr 260.5Wolverine 276.5
16Empire B 253.6Lakeshore Ltd 260.7
17Empire N 245.0Silver Star 253.6
18Springfield S 235.6Piedmont 243.9
19Silver Meteor 229.1WAS-NPN 242.7
20Palmetto 224.6Palmetto 241.1
21Lakeshore Ltd 223.5Empire Builder 235.5
22WAS-NPN 215.7Starlight 235
23Eagle 209.7CA Zephyr 233.3
24SW Chief 204.4Carolinian 229.7
25Crescent 189.2WAS-RNK 221.9
26Illini 176.9Eagle 215.1
27Carolinian 169.6Crescent 203.5
28Auto Train 158.4Illini 195.8
29CONO 156.1Silver Meteor 193.5
30Piedmont 147.5Auto Train 182.7
31WAS-LYN 143.6SW Chief 167.5
32PA 137.7CONO 159.2
33WAS-NFK 128.4PA 148.3
34Capitol Ltd 127.1MO River 116.5
35IL Zephyr 125.7Blue Water 108.4
36Blue Water 116.2Capitol Ltd. 101.6
37MO River 101.7WAS-RVR 97.0
38WAS-RVR 90.9IL Zephyr 90.8
39Adirondack 69.2Vermonter 72.5
40Cardinal 68.7Cardinal 60.5
41Vermonter 63.8P. Marquette 58.3
42P. Marquette 60.8Ethan Allen 56.9
43Sunset Ltd 60.5Adirondack 55.7
44Heartland 43.7Sunset Ltd. 52.6
45Ethan Allen 30.6Heartland 51.2
Click to expand...
I presume these numbers are thousands of passengers per year.
 
The June ridership report was finally released. It was exceedingly boring. Almost all trains reported percentages within 3% of May, so I am not going to publish a list. There are a couple things worth noting:

The NER reported YTD ridership of 7,958,000 after two months of ridership over 950,000. Barring an act of God, or something similarly catastrophic, the NER will carry 10,000,000 passengers this year for the first time ever. Three months are left this year. 11,000,000 is not out of the question.
  1. Far less glamorous, but perhaps more importantly, the Heartland Flyer, carried 8400 passengers this month, 140 per frequency. This is, perhaps, a new all time monthly record, and this is a piece of the country that is relatively hostile to public transportation. The third coach may need to become permanent rather than variable.
  2. The Adirondack carried a whopping 1,500 people in June, 25 a frequency. Presumably this is only ridership to Saratoga and the rest is counted elsewhere.
  3. The Blue Water reached 100% recovery for the first time since February.
  4. The Missouri River Runner posted a 206% recovery, but June 2019 ridership is about half of May 2019 ridership. Something disrupted service in 2019. It was five years ago. I have faint memories of a flood and a reduction in service due to flooding. Extra worthless bonus points to whoever remembers what the cause was without looking it up.
  5. The Piedmont has a similar situation.
  6. The Silver Star roared to 37,600 its best level of the year (odd as Florida trains peak in the winter typically) post a 110% recovery, it’s first time since February.
  7. The Sunset Limited slid to 67% recovery. It started the year at 100%. Something is quite wrong. I have know idea why.
  8. A final really exciting note. The Springfield Shuttle became the first route in the country to set an all time ridership record. June FY 2024 YTD ridership sits at 442,600, above the FY 2023 record ridership of 439,000. There are still three months to go. More records look to topple next month. We could see some good ones. E.G. Both the Cascades and Heartland Flyer are taking a hard look at their 2012 records (if my imperfect data is correct).
 
Septa9739 said:
A final really exciting note. The Springfield Shuttle became the first route in the country to set an all time ridership record. June FY 2024 YTD ridership sits at 442,600, above the FY 2023 record ridership of 439,000. There are still three months to go.
Click to expand...
That is cool. I assume this does not count CTRail ridership. If that is true and CTRail is added it would be even more impressive.
 
Correct that this does not include CTrail Hartford Line trains. I believe local NHV-SPG ridership on the Vermonter is counted, however.

The record is extremely impressive given the line currently has bustitutions on some runs, especially north of Hartford due to a station and track work project in Windsor Locks. In addition, a couple of Amtrak trains have been changed over to be run by CTrail since the service's overhaul in June 2018.
 
The July Monthly Performance Report has been out for quite a while. I have been busy-apologies. As always these are monthly, not YTD figures. The following routes are between 95%-100% of July 2019 ridership (NB: comparison is with 2019 figures to better follow the twelve months pre-COVID).

Three routes are between 95 and 100%.

  1. Blue Water 99% (18,200) flat from last month
  2. Silver Star 99% (38,100) highest ridership post-COVID (as a stand-alone train)
  3. Crescent 96% (27,300)

The following twenty-two are more

  1. Acela Express 101% (286,800) the first time since December
  2. Northeast Regional 115% (897,400) in line
  3. Empire West 123% (48,400)
  4. Downeaster 105% (57,800)
  5. Springfield Shuttle 136% (43,000)
  6. Empire South 120% (120,900)
  7. Borealis (21,300) a record
  8. VIII. Illini/Saluki 112% (25,100)
  9. Heartland Flyer 105% (8,700)
  10. Cascades 120% (102,500)
  11. Roanoke Regional 138% (28,800)
  12. Newport Regional 100% (31,400)
  13. XIII.Norfolk Regional 154% (45,900)
  14. XIV.Richmond Regional 162% (13,300)
  15. Missouri River Runner 117% (19,200)
  16. XVI.Pennsylvanian 102% (22,200)
  17. XVII. Carolinian 149% (31,400)
  18. XVIII.Piedmont 158% (25,500)
  19. XIX.Palmetto 93% (30,300) a first appearance
  20. CONO 112% (23,000)
  21. XXI.Lakeshore Limited 105% (36,900)
  22. XXII. Auto Train 104% (23,600)

This was another mediocre report. The number of trains with less than full monthly recovery increased to 23. (February was good for about 10, there’s been a holding pattern of about 23 since April). 12 trains made a percentage gain of last month: Acela, Downeaster, Keystone, Empire South, Illini/Saluki, Cascades, Adirondack (to a whopping 3,400), Roanoke and Richmond Regionals, Carolinian, Cardinal, and CONO. The Keystone, Adirondack, and Wolverine (at least) are still suffering major construction adjustments. The Adirondack jumped to about 52 riders per frequencyThe Piedmont joins the Springfield Shuttle to set an annual record. Many other routes are still in the running with two months left. Most routes are operating with relatively stable numbers/trends.
 
Septa: Appreciate your efforts. What would really be interesting is if the ridership figures also listed the number of sold out legs for each train. That number would be veery embarrassing to Amtrak and expect that it would make major effort to hide that number. Maybe some of our posters could just take one route and then post it to you. I know that the Cresent had at least 3 multi leg sell outs in August but did not check each day both ways.
 
The August MPR is out. The full report will come later, but, for now, these routes have set annual records (or at least 12 year records, as 2012 is the earliest year I have data for.)

1.NER: 9,814,900-all time (previously 9,162,400 in 2023)
  1. Empire West: 467,300-all time (previously 452,700 in 2023)
  2. Empire South 1,245,900- all time (previously 1,245,600 in 2023)
  3. Springfield Shuttle 531,800- all time (previously 439,000 in 2023
  4. Cascades: 850,400- poss. all time, def. since 2012 (845,099)
  5. Carolinian: 320,500- poss. all time, def. since 2013 (317,550)
  6. Piedmont 329,500- all time (previously 290,000 in 2023)
It’s interesting to note that all five definite records come from routes that last set records last year. All will be totally smashed come next month. There is still one month left after which I will produce a much more definitive report. Many routes are close.
 
Septa9739 said:
The August MPR is out. The full report will come later, but, for now, these routes have set annual records (or at least 12 year records, as 2012 is the earliest year I have data for.)

1.NER: 9,814,900-all time (previously 9,162,400 in 2023)
  1. Empire West: 467,300-all time (previously 452,700 in 2023)
  2. Empire South 1,245,900- all time (previously 1,245,600 in 2023)
  3. Springfield Shuttle 531,800- all time (previously 439,000 in 2023
  4. Cascades: 850,400- poss. all time, def. since 2012 (845,099)
  5. Carolinian: 320,500- poss. all time, def. since 2013 (317,550)
  6. Piedmont 329,500- all time (previously 290,000 in 2023)
It’s interesting to note that all five definite records come from routes that last set records last year. All will be totally smashed come next month. There is still one month left after which I will produce a much more definitive report. Many routes are close.
Click to expand...
https://www.amtrak.com/content/dam/...ak-Monthly-Performance-Report-August-2024.pdf

It is out.
 
Septa9739 said:
The August MPR is out. The full report will come later, but, for now, these routes have set annual records (or at least 12 year records, as 2012 is the earliest year I have data for.)

1.NER: 9,814,900-all time (previously 9,162,400 in 2023)
  1. Empire West: 467,300-all time (previously 452,700 in 2023)
  2. Empire South 1,245,900- all time (previously 1,245,600 in 2023)
  3. Springfield Shuttle 531,800- all time (previously 439,000 in 2023
  4. Cascades: 850,400- poss. all time, def. since 2012 (845,099)
  5. Carolinian: 320,500- poss. all time, def. since 2013 (317,550)
  6. Piedmont 329,500- all time (previously 290,000 in 2023)
It’s interesting to note that all five definite records come from routes that last set records last year. All will be totally smashed come next month. There is still one month left after which I will produce a much more definitive report. Many routes are close.
Click to expand...
All of the state supported trains you list are losing money. The NEC corridor is hitting it out of the park making $234.6 million. With the exception of the Auto Train, which made $9.8 million, all long distance trains are big money losers.
 
Bostontoallpoints said:
All of the state supported trains you list are losing money. The NEC corridor is hitting it out of the park making $234.6 million. With the exception of the Auto Train, which made $9.8 million, all long distance trains are big money losers
Click to expand...
And they provide a critical transportation service, economic stimulus to the communities they serve, and relieve pressure on the nation's road system. All of those are reasonable things to pay for. The myth that all rail transit should be entirely user subsidized, in a way that air transportation and road transportation isn't, is ludicrous.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top