53(25) Auto Train Arrived Sanford ~14hr Late

[fixj]

It shows service interruption, but what happened? It’s just now passing Jessup, GA with 5 or 6 hours to go to Sanford. So no 52(26) today? Any info on this?

 

[A Voice]

Southbound train 53(26) has left Lorton, so they must be planning on making a (very) late turn and getting 52 (26) out eventually.

 

[FormerOBS]

If this is true, then the train is running about 13 hours late, with an arrival between 10:30 and 11. I don't have info but am trying to get it. This would mean 52(26) could not depart Sanford until the wee hours of Feb. 27, at the earliest. If it is true that 53(26) has departed Lorton, then train 52(26) MUST depart tonight because there won't be enough track space in Sanford to hold both consists at the same time tomorrow. If they don't run it, the tracks in the station area will be hopelessly crowded.

Onboard crew 2 for delayed train 52(26), which will actually depart 2/27, and the Sanford station personnel, will be working very tired by tomorrow.

While writing this, I got info that indicates the lead engine had some kind of brake problems. OBS crew 2 is a good crew, but I know they're tired & will be even more so on the way back north. They passed JAX a bit before 8:30 p.m.

Tom

 

[FormerOBS]

Latest information has it that 53 should have arrived SFA a few minutes ago. The OBS crew's layover will be cut very short in any case, but they have learned that it will be cut even further because they have to stay at the station to move stock so a fresh sleeper can be cut into the train as a replacement. It will probably be necessary to make all 43 beds in the fresh car so beds can be ready for boarding passengers, and all A-T OBS crew will normally pitch in to make sure that is done before anybody goes for their shortened rest.

Tom

 

[FormerOBS]

Crew has been told SFA station personnel want to board no. 52 around 2-3 am. This would be an extremely fast turnaround, and I question whether it's possible, especially since additional switching is necessary to cut out one sleeper and replace it with another. Maybe they can save a few minutes here and there by eliminating some minor aspects of cleaning (the exterior, for example). If that time is adhered to, then the OBS crew will be required to be ready, even though the train may not be. It would be surprising if any of the OBS crew gets more than one or two hours of sleep before boarding.

Welcome to the cushy world of Auto Train OBS, the supposedly spoiled darlings of the Company.

Tom

 

[Triley]

Crew has been told SFA station personnel want to board no. 52 around 2-3 am. This would be an extremely fast turnaround, and I question whether it's possible, especially since additional switching is necessary to cut out one sleeper and replace it with another. Maybe they can save a few minutes here and there by eliminating some minor aspects of cleaning (the exterior, for example). If that time is adhered to, then the OBS crew will be required to be ready, even though the train may not be. It would be surprising if any of the OBS crew gets more than one or two hours of sleep before boarding.

Welcome to the cushy world of Auto Train OBS, the supposedly spoiled darlings of the Company.

Tom

I shouldn't be laughing, but I am. Welcome to the real world of working for Amtrak!

 

[FormerOBS]

Northbound Auto Train 52 departed Sanford at 3:52 am today. Meanwhile, southbound train 53 was reported on time or early, and should have arrived some time ago. The Sanford station is normally manned only from about 8 am to 5(?) pm, but there were station personnel on duty from 8 am yesterday, continuously until at least 4 am today. I don't know how they staggered their brief rest periods, or whether it was even possible to do that. The same station personnel are again on duty to handle this morning's arrival of 52 and this afternoon's departure of 53.

Tom

 

[Michael061282]

Status maps shows it left SFA at 3:52am. 11:52 late. That's going to throw that particuar consist out of whack for almost a week at least

 

[Dovecote]

Thanks for all those updates Tom!

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

Gee let's not forget about the passenger in this story line.

 

[lo2e]

It was reported in another thread (here - http://discuss.amtraktrains.com/index.php?/topic/67214-7925-whats-wrong-with-this-picture/)that 53(25) was parked near Selma, NC for a while. If that's the case, maybe this brake issue was discovered somewhere in the single track section south of Wilson, which according to that thread I linked to also held up 79(25) for a few hours. Does anyone know how 53 got going again? Did it need a helper loco because of the brake issues, or what did they do to remedy it?

 

[fixj]

Tom (FormerOBS), With 52(26) leaving at 3:30 AM I was wondering how they would deal with meal service. Obviously they just switch the order of breakfast and dinner, but what do they do about lunch? Auto train never serves lunch when on time, but they have to feed these folks some kind of lunch. Do they have a backup plan? Dinty Moore Beef stew? Just looked at track a train and 52(26) is just now at Emporia VA at 7PM Eastern.

 

[lo2e]

I just figured out that 53 and 79 weren't the only trains to lose significant time on Thursday between Rocky Mount and either Raleigh or Fayetteville. 89, 91, 92(24), 97, and 98 all lost time in that stretch of track over the course of the day, with 79 being the big winner at 3+ hours lost, but 97 also lost 2+ hours in there.

 

[Triley]

Tom (FormerOBS), With 52(26) leaving at 3:30 AM I was wondering how they would deal with meal service. Obviously they just switch the order of breakfast and dinner, but what do they do about lunch? Auto train never serves lunch when on time, but they have to feed these folks some kind of lunch. Do they have a backup plan? Dinty Moore Beef stew? Just looked at track a train and 52(26) is just now at Emporia VA at 7PM Eastern.

Whatever it takes to keep everybody fed and watered. Run down stock onboard, if it runs out, emergency meals go next. If there's still time to feed folks, it's time to order out to any place that can supply cooked food and keep its temp maintained until to the train to be served. I've heard of KFC or pizza being used. Not really something I deal with, working on the corridor of course, but we're still trained in the procedures in case. Of course I don't have that wonderful sounding Dinty Moore beef stew on my cafe!

 

[Thirdrail7]

This set is in the death cycle. Hopefully, they will be able to shave time off the delay each trip, enabling the train to return to its slot after a few more days. The weather seems to be cooperating. Otherwise, they may have to blow out a trip to rectify the situation.

 

[fixj]

How long will it take to get out of the "death cycle"? Looks like that train set (53 today) is about 9 or 10 hours late today. I also wonder how many folks just cancel their reservation and drive. The back up at the stations must be awful.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Gee let's not forget about the passenger in this story line.

Passengers? Based on this thread I figured these were empty trains. Are you saying that there are paying customers on board? Well, sucks to be them I guess. Maybe they can get a free serving of Dinty Moore dog food on their way to Never Again.

 

[chakk]

I think the Auto Train can typically make up 2 to 3 hours of a delayed arrival at each terminal, so a train that arrives one terminal 12 hours late will need at least 4 to 6 one-way trips to get back on a normal departure-arrival schedule.

 

[FormerOBS]

Sorry I've been away, folks! I went out of town on Saturday & was away from the 'puter till now. Lots of questions have been piling up.

PLEASE keep in mind the fact that I am retired & cannot be considered a spokesman for Amtrak. My answers are based on many years of experience on that train; knowledge of past approaches that have worked, plus some that didn't work; knowledge of the crew personnel, etc. Many of the old management jobs have been given to newer people, so I can't predict any changes in decisions made at that level.

Yes, there were hundreds of passengers affected. I have not spoken to any of them, so I can't say how they perceived their treatment. If past experience is any guide, it's likely that they were disappointed and upset by the delays, and some may have decided against taking the train. For those who took the train, I suspect that they discovered (maybe quickly, or maybe it took a while) that the crew didn't like the situation any better than they did. The crew sympathizes, and does all they can to make the trip as pleasant as possible.

If the mechanical issue was discovered around Selma, I suspect CSX would have sent Mechanical Dept. personnel from Rocky Mount, which is the closest large yard. I have no confirmation of this. Otherwise, I think the next closest large facility may be Richmond.

fixj:

Yes, Triley has it right. Whatever it takes. Usually, extra supplies are put aboard at the terminals to be ready for the likely problems. When passengers wait all evening for a very late train, the station personnel sometimes delay loading autos, allowing passengers to go to nearby restaurants for an evening meal. In that case, passengers are given a definite time limit so there will be enough time available for auto loading. They settle in for the night immediately after boarding. The large meal, which would normally be served on the evening of departure, is usually served midday. Later in the day, something ranging from light casual snacks to a light meal may be served or offered in the lounge car. This can vary quite a bit, depending on the schedule and other factors. The decisions are generally made by Management. In the past, there have been occasions when food has been taken aboard at an intermediate point. I have seen sandwiches, chicken dinners, etc. provided in this way. Because of budget constraints, I would be surprised if that happened nowadays. Dinty Moore Beef Stew over rice is available, but is considered a last resort. The OBS crew may not be able to make up time, but they will do all in their power to keep the customer comfortable and fed.

Tom

 

[fixj]

Thanks Triley and Tom. Great information. It's just sad that it takes 4 or 5 days to get back on time. I feel sorry for both passengers and crew. We take Auto train 3 or 4 times a year and we have only been late by 2 hours one time and crew made all of that up.

 

[Ryan]

The difficulties getting back on schedule illustrate the point that the Auto Train cannot be extended further north without the addition of extra equipment to makeup at least one more consist.

 

[fairviewroad]

(Possibly) dumb question:

In situations like this, has Amtrak ever considered cancelling an AT rotation and then using 18-wheelers to clear out a backlog of vehicles, then placing the passengers on another Amtrak service like the Silver Meteor and bussing them to/from the AT terminals to Richmond or Orlando or wherever makes the most sense.

Could that even be done on short notice? (Probably not.) Would it even make sense for passengers? (Maybe yes, maybe no?)

Just trying to think outside the box.

 

[FormerOBS]

I want to add something about the "death cycle".

2/25 OBS crew 2, Service disruption at Selma (time not reported to me)

2/26 Arrived Sanford (SFA) approx. 11 pm (down 13-1/2 hours)

2/27 Crew 2 turns. Departs SFA 3:52 am (down down 11 hours, 52 min.)

2/27 Arrive Lorton (LOR) approx. 10 pm 9 down approx. 12-1/2 hours)

2/28 Crew 4 departs LOR about 2:15 am (down 10 hours, 15 min.)

2/28 Arrive SFA about 7:45 pm (down 10 hours, 15 min.)

2/29 Depart SFA after 1 am (down 9 hours plus)

2/29 Arrive LOR UNKNOWN.

The latest estimate was about 7 pm, which would be down 10 hours. However, my latest word is that the train is "creeping" northbound, somewhere north of Rocky Mount as of 2:45 pm. Normal running time from Rocky Mount to LOR is about 4 to 4-1/2 hours. The reason they are creeping is unknown to me.

As of this morning's departure from Sanford approximately 4-1/2 hours has been gained. Approximately 5 hours and 8 minutes have been made up through 3 quick turnarounds; and approximately 38 minutes have been lost on 2 over-the-road runs. Currently, the train is in jeopardy of losing more time due to poor over-the-road performance, I can't say whether this is the fault of Amtrak or CSX.

Tom

 

[CCC1007]

You think they have the excess capacity on their other trains for the auto train to just put everyone on the others? No chance ever. Even in the slow season there are ~300 passengers on the auto train.

 

[Ryan]

Doubtful that there would be space on the Silvers to do that.

They do just flat cancel a run to get back on schedule when necessary, but that's obviously a pretty extreme measure.