A Silver at South Station

[Seaboard92]

The problem with that is that, based on prior experience, keeping the train to schedule would be difficult, and if the northbound is also the Night Owl, then it's possible that the "Night Owl" might become a day train most of the time and thus lose its utility.

Actually I wouldn't be too worried about an Atlanta north train and scheduling issues. For the most part NS is pretty fluid Atlanta to the north. Especially once you get to Charlotte it becomes really fluid after that point. The problem on the Crescent is Atlanta south.

 

[jis]

Actually I wouldn't be too worried about an Atlanta north train and scheduling issues. For the most part NS is pretty fluid Atlanta to the north. Especially once you get to Charlotte it becomes really fluid after that point. The problem on the Crescent is Atlanta south.

Still I don't think the Night Owl should be changed. It is OK to add another train. There will be additional rolling stock available pretty soon, so that should not be an issue, and finding an additional slot in the middle of the night from New York should not be an issue. Sleepers will always be in short supply and there is no need to send one on a day journey to Atlanta. The Atlanta train should be like the Palmetto, not like the Night Owl.

 

[MikefromCrete]

Extending existing trains seems like a favorite game with railfans. Sometimes that is a good idea, but often it negatives the reason for operating the existing train. Extending the Night Owl beyond Virginia is just a bad idea. Making the Night Owl part of a Florida train is a bad idea for both operations.

 

[Philly Amtrak Fan]

Extending existing trains seems like a favorite game with railfans. Sometimes that is a good idea, but often it negatives the reason for operating the existing train. Extending the Night Owl beyond Virginia is just a bad idea. Making the Night Owl part of a Florida train is a bad idea for both operations.

The other favorite game is adding new trains which requires more equipment which is already in short supply and even more staff and even more money. It's like when I say Amtrak should cut certain trains to add others. Sure, the idealist would say why not just add them? We all know the answer to that question. Same logic here. Some posters here want to post the most pie in the sky ideas and others the most cost efficient improvements.

 

[sttom]

The other favorite game is adding new trains which requires more equipment which is already in short supply and even more staff and even more money. It's like when I say Amtrak should cut certain trains to add others. Sure, the idealist would say why not just add them? We all know the answer to that question. Same logic here. Some posters here want to post the most pie in the sky ideas and others the most cost efficient improvements.

There is also the kill joy who thinks pointing out Amtrak needs new equipment is a got ya and not just basically everyone's assumption at this point.

 

[AFriendly]

Maybe a cross-platform connection at NYP with an Acela from BOS would be a good start? Sleeper could even be cross-marketed with business class. The Acela would have to figure out how to handle checked baggage but that doesn't seem like a showstopper...remove some seats from a coach and call it good.

 

[jis]

Maybe a cross-platform connection at NYP with an Acela from BOS would be a good start? Sleeper could even be cross-marketed with business class. The Acela would have to figure out how to handle checked baggage but that doesn't seem like a showstopper...remove some seats from a coach and call it good.

Acela won't handle Checked Baggage. The Checked Baggage will go by the 65/66/67 popularly known as the Night Owl among railfans.

 

[MARC Rider]

Maybe a cross-platform connection at NYP with an Acela from BOS would be a good start? Sleeper could even be cross-marketed with business class. The Acela would have to figure out how to handle checked baggage but that doesn't seem like a showstopper...remove some seats from a coach and call it good.

Sleepers are already cross-marketed with business class for connections, as I found out when I booked my sleepers for the Gathering. I didn't mind booking business class for my Baltimore-New York Northeast Regional leg to connect to the Lakeshore Limited on my way out, but business class Washington to Baltimore for the connection from the Capitol Limited on the way home seemed like overkill, but I had to do an extra click to get a coach seat for my Northeast Regional connection. In both cases, there's a layover, but they are both in comfortable stations with a Metropolitan Lounge or Club Aclea to wait out the layover.

 

[cocojacoby]

I always thought a simple solution was to split a northbound Silver at NYP. Send half up to Boston (sleeper, coaches and cafe) and end the New York section (sleepers, coaches and diner) there to overnight at Sunnyside.

The next day those two sections become the westbound Lake Shore Limited and reunite in Albany for the trip to Chicago.

Southbound you reverse the drill using the Boston section of the LSL as the Boston section of the Silver. They reunite in Penn Station and head south together.

No extra equipment needed and it also satisfies the winter practice of sending equipment south for thawing if they still even do that.

 

[Brian Battuello]

Great idea! Far too sensible for Amtrak.

 

[Tlcooper44]

I always thought a simple solution was to split a northbound Silver at NYP. Send half up to Boston (sleeper, coaches and cafe) and end the New York section (sleepers, coaches and diner) there to overnight at Sunnyside.

The next day those two sections become the westbound Lake Shore Limited and reunite in Albany for the trip to Chicago.

Southbound you reverse the drill using the Boston section of the LSL as the Boston section of the Silver. They reunite in Penn Station and head south together.

No extra equipment needed and it also satisfies the winter practice of sending equipment south for thawing if they still even do that.

This was more or less what I had in mind, but I guess there are too many hiccups for Amtrak to take on.

 

[jis]

I always thought a simple solution was to split a northbound Silver at NYP. Send half up to Boston (sleeper, coaches and cafe) and end the New York section (sleepers, coaches and diner) there to overnight at Sunnyside.

It is not a solution at all, since no train will be split and joined at NYP. or at Harold for that matter It has literally been decades now since any splitting or joining has happend at NYP, including switching locos.

There was a time when two Metroliners were turned on the same track bysimply unhitching the loco from one and running it around to hitch onto the other end of the other consists while, that ones loco was moved over to the first consist. But that ended sometime in the late '80s. I don't think there is even a crew to do such at NYP anymore on a regular basis.

 

[Tlcooper44]

It is not a solution at all, since no train will be split and joined at NYP. or at Harold for that matter It has literally been decades now since any splitting or joining has happend at NYP, including switching locos.

There was a time when two Metroliners were turned on the same track bysimply unhitching the loco from one and running it around to hitch onto the other end of the other consists while, that ones loco was moved over to the first consist. But that ended sometime in the late '80s. I don't think there is even a crew to do such at NYP anymore on a regular basis.

Since Seimens is going to be building trainsets rather than cars for Amfleet replacements, I'm curious how this will effect trains that get split and rejoined, as well as future prospects such as what is being discussed.

 

[cocojacoby]

This was more or less what I had in mind, but I guess there are too many hiccups for Amtrak to take on.

Well it may be easier to swallow than just extending a Silver to Boston. No argument about if Boston can service a real diner for one. No diner crew issues. Also the equipment works perfectly with the smaller Boston sections probably "right sized". I guess it's way too logical.

BTW - I thought when the Star went to a no diner status that was a good time to experiment with running it to Boston at least.

 

[jis]

Since Seimens is going to be building trainsets rather than cars for Amfleet replacements, I'm curious how this will effect trains that get split and rejoined, as well as future prospects such as what is being discussed.

No trains get split and rejoined on the NEC at present AFAICT. Or is there one that does so at NHV still? Of course that will stop if there is one.

The reason that Silver(s) will not get extended to Boston on the Shore Line is that the only way to do it would be as a replacement of a Regional due to Amtrak being at slot limit based on their agreement with rich Connecticut boat owners. Of course they could be sent via the inland line CSX willing. Nice thought, but frankly I do not see that happening.

 

[Tlcooper44]

No trains get split and rejoined on the NEC at present AFAICT. Or is there one that does so at NHV still? Of course that will stop if there is one.

The reason that Silver(s) will not get extended to Boston on the Shore Line is that the only way to do it would be as a replacement of a Regional due to Amtrak being at slot limit based on their agreement with rich Connecticut boat owners. Of course they could be sent via the inland line CSX willing. Nice thought, but frankly I do not see that happening.

What about LSL? I presume the amfleet replacements will apply to eastern LD trains. Or are those cars going to remain/Seimens is building single cars as well as trainsets?

 

[jis]

What about LSL? I presume the amfleet replacements will apply to eastern LD trains. Or are those cars going to remain/Seimens is building single cars as well as trainsets?

Nope. LD trains are not part of the equation. These are Amfleet I replacements at present. Not Amfleet II replacements. Only Regional trains affected + Extended Regionals like the Palmetto, Pennsylvanian and the Carolinian. This is actually spelled out in some detail in the relevant press releases. These will have no effect on the Silvers either.

 

[Tlcooper44]

Nope. LD trains are not part of the equation. These are Amfleet I replacements at present. Not Amfleet II replacements. Only Regional trains affected + Extended Regionals like the Palmetto, Pennsylvanian and the Carolinian. This is actually spelled out in some detail in the relevant press releases. These will have no effect on the Silvers either.

Thanks for the clarification.

 

[Cal]

due to Amtrak being at slot limit based on their agreement with rich Connecticut boat owners.

Why? This doesn't make sense to me. I know the train runs along the coast, but so does the Surfliner and they don't have to negotiate time slots with any third parties AFAIK.

 

[jis]

Why? This doesn't make sense to me. I know the train runs along the coast, but so does the Surfliner and they don't have to negotiate time slots with any third parties AFAIK.

Opening of drawbridges. It was part of the deal involved in getting approval for electrification of NHV - BOS.

 

[Cal]

Opening of drawbridges. It was part of the deal involved in getting approval for electrification of NHV - BOS.

Alright, makes sense. Thanks

 

[Brian Battuello]

I take that route frequently, and did not know that. Don't bother asking to have a bridge opened on the Harlem river.

 

[west point]

When does the bridge limit agreement expire ?

 

[jis]

When does the bridge limit agreement expire ?

When the next agreement supersedes it I guess. There is as such no expiry date, and it is a highly politically charged thing. In the past even Senator Blumenthal, who is otherwise a staunch rail supporter has stood steadfast with his constituents on this matter. I don't think he can retain his seat in the Senate if he changes his tune. The funny thing is that at present it places a solid cap on the number of trains that ConnDOT can run on the Shore Line East Service to New London. Connecticut may manage to raise the limit some to allow more Shore Line East trains before Amtrak gets any further relief.

One of the things Amtrak has been doing is, as they rebuild the Bascule or Swing bridges they are raising the track bed 10'-15' and using lower beams of more modern material and structure allowing the base of the structure to be higher providing greater clearance, so as to allow many more small boats to pass underneath the higher bridge without requiring an opening. But that does not handle the issue of sailboats, which what the rich folks like to run across the railroad from their home piers to the ocean and back. Most of it is locatead between New Haven and New London - the prettiest part of the route according to many. Anyway if it can be documented that the bridges need to be opened fewer times a day then there can be a basis for re-negotiating the number of trains upwards some.

Alternatively, they could just upgrade the Inland Route including electrification and acquisition from CSX of the Worcester - Springfield segment, and get a full fledged second route to run as many trains as they wish. State of Connecticut and Massachusetts would have to spearhead the effort. Maybe it will happen sooner rather than later.

 

[Cal]

Alternatively, they could just upgrade the Inland Route including electrification and acquisition from CSX of the Worcester - Springfield segment, and get a full fledged second route to run as many trains as they wish. State of Connecticut and Massachusetts would have to spearhead the effort. Maybe it will happen sooner rather than later.

How would that effect travel times?