Acela II RFP information announcement

[Hal]

So the AGV is too much train? Yet this Pendolino is not,interesting.

http://www.alstom.com/products-services/product-catalogue/rail-systems/trains/products/pendolino/

The video is interesting, especially the 8 degree tilt, what is the max tilt for Acela? Does the Acela actually use that feature? I know at one time it was turned off due to clearance problems if two Acelas past each other in certain areas on the NEC.

The tilt is used. It had to be turned off on Metro North and also less tilt than originally planned because the Acela was built slightly wider than it was supposed to be. There are different "legends" on how that happened.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Acela150]

I was thinking it is 4 degrees, and use to be disabled on MetroNorth due to clearance, but isn't anymore?

Bingo. MNRR now allows the tilt. Special instruction had crews inform MNRR dispatchers that the tilt was "disabled". IIRC I've seen signs on the shoreline that say "disable tilt" just before the phase change. Can't remember the exact area though.

 

[jis]

The amount of under balance allowed on curves in the US is also less than what is allowed in the UK and Europe. So eight degree tilt may not be necessary to compensate in the US anyway. AFAIR the original plan was six degrees reduced to four due to clearance issues.

 

[Fan Railer]

Maximum designed system tilt according to one site is 6.5 degrees from either side of centered position, but according to the operating manual, it is limited to 3.2 degrees. The literature is unclear beyond that, but if anyone understands cant deficiency, then I'll quote:

The maximum tilting angle is based on clearance considerations associated to the

carbody geometry. The tilting system compensates the lateral accelerations
induced by cant deficiency in curves. The maximum compensation goes up to
39.5% of the deficiency at speeds of 45 mph or more. The maximum cant
deficiency is 9 inches or 8.53 degrees, 37.5% of 8.53 degrees is 3.2º.

 

[frequentflyer]

I was under the impression that the AGV (in Duplex form) was the TGV replacement, so more orders will eventually come. This Pendolinos seem like a step down from the AGV, but should be cheaper to purchase and why buy performance one will not use.

 

[afigg]

It is now mid-June. Still no announcement about a formal contract award and granting of the RRIF loan. Looking back, Senator Schumer made his announcement at Alstom back in last September! We need one of those movie montages to show the passage of time, where Fall changes to Winter, then Winter to Spring, now Spring changing to Summer. Still the FRA, US DOT, Amtrak, and Alstom are apparently working on the paperwork and approvals. Good grief, how long does it take?

Meanwhile, thanks to the recent US jobs report and slowdown in US economic growth and the flight of money from all over to US Treasuries, the interest rates on 20 Year Treasury notes has fallen sharply in recent weeks to 1.96% (!!) and 30 year Treasury notes to 2.39%. If they are to ever lock in a 20 to 30 year federally backed RRIF loan, now may be a really good time to do so.

 

[jis]

I hear in about a month something could be expected if everything goes according to plan.

 

[Andrew]

I hear in about a month something could be expected if everything goes according to plan.

Who said that?

 

[PRR 60]

I hear in about a month something could be expected if everything goes according to plan.

I hope not from the same person who said multiple Viewliner II diners would be in service by late May or early June.

 

[afigg]

I hear in about a month something could be expected if everything goes according to plan.

That is what the unofficial reports were a month or two ago. If this process drags on much longer, Boardman may end up retiring before the contracts and approvals are signed off on. If Alstom expects to get the contract, hopefully they have begun to staff up on some of the key management and engineer positions, so they can get the design, parts orders, and subcontract awards aspects off to a quick start upon the official contract award.

 

[jis]

I hear in about a month something could be expected if everything goes according to plan.

I hope not from the same person who said multiple Viewliner II diners would be in service by late May or early June.

No.
BTW, on VLII Diner, I heard both July and August from two different people. But as usual it is hard to tell until the proverbial fat lady sings

 

[Andrew]

I hear in about a month something could be expected if everything goes according to plan.

That is what the unofficial reports were a month or two ago. If this process drags on much longer, Boardman may end up retiring before the contracts and approvals are signed off on. If Alstom expects to get the contract, hopefully they have begun to staff up on some of the key management and engineer positions, so they can get the design, parts orders, and subcontract awards aspects off to a quick start upon the official contract award.

Where are the reports?

 

[PRR 60]

I hear in about a month something could be expected if everything goes according to plan.

I hope not from the same person who said multiple Viewliner II diners would be in service by late May or early June.

No.
BTW, on VLII Diner, I heard both July and August from two different people. But as usual it is hard to tell until the proverbial fat lady sings

I thought she left Amtrak during the Gunn era.

 

[jis]

AFAIK she couldn't sing if her life depended on it

 

[Eric S]

I hear in about a month something could be expected if everything goes according to plan.

That is what the unofficial reports were a month or two ago. If this process drags on much longer, Boardman may end up retiring before the contracts and approvals are signed off on. If Alstom expects to get the contract, hopefully they have begun to staff up on some of the key management and engineer positions, so they can get the design, parts orders, and subcontract awards aspects off to a quick start upon the official contract award.

Where are the reports?

I think you overlooked an important word in that post - "unofficial"

 

[jis]

Yup. When you see terms like "unofficial" or even "I am hearing", that means you will not get a citation even if you go blue in your face holding your breath for and asking for one. You can take it or leave it for what it may or may not be worth.

 

[Steve4031]

Maybe when the fat lady sits down to first call for dinner in a VL II diner. . .

 

[afigg]

Where are the reports?

Andrew, the closest I see to a recent close to official "report" is the May 3 article in the local Evening Tribune paper that YOU posted in this very thread: Alstom-Amtrak deal on track. Excerpts:

HORNELL — Federal and local officials alike continue to express confidence that Alstom and Amtrak will come to terms on a $2.5 billion high-speed rail cars contract in the next month.

....

The deal apparently has been slowed by a bureaucratic review of the contract’s finer details. However, in a call with reporters on Monday, Rep. Tom Reed, R-Corning, reported a productive meeting with Alstom officials on Friday.

“I’m still confident that we are in a good position, but we are not celebrating and spiking the football until all the I’s are dotted and the T’s are crossed. But I think we’re moving forward each and every day,” he said.

Reed could not go into detail about the hold-up, other than to say, “I know it has been slowed down by the bureaucracy in Washington.”

That article was written six weeks ago, still no official announcement. If I did not know better, I say this was a DOD contract award. Those can drag on almost forever before the funding eventually gets turned on (from personal experience waiting to start on projects). After months of delay, the word is the contract will be awarded in a month. A month later, then it is maybe down to in 3 weeks. Then another month later, the contract start is maybe in a couple of weeks. Couple of weeks pass, the funding is coming next week. Then next week, it is only a few more days from being done Then a few more days pass....

The wheels of federal bureaucracy can turn very, very slowly.

 

[A Voice]

Maybe when the fat lady sits down to first call for dinner in a VL II diner. . .

Thanks for the confirmation that the diner booths will be large enough for us fa,,,err, "persons of size" to fit.

 

[Steve4031]

If she's like a couple of the ones that I work with, Amtrak will need more power on the head end.

 

[jis]

Looks like the Amtrak Board will be voting on signing off on the contract with Alstom this week.

http://www.eveningtribune.com/news/20160725/alstom-amtrak-come-to-terms-on-25-billion-deal

 

[afigg]

Yes, it appears that the contract award and financing arrangements for the HSR trainsets are, at long lost, going to be done. Excerpt from the Evening Tribune article (linked above), local paper in Hornell, NY:

HORNELL — On Monday morning, Senator Charles E. Schumer (D-NY) announced that the Amtrak Board of Directors are expected to vote this week to support finalization of negotiations with Alstom provide new Next Generation High-Speed trains for Amtrak's Acela Express service as part of a $2.5 billion program.

The contract is expected to create over 750 jobs, including 400 jobs directly at Alstom in Hornell, and an additional 350 or more across New York State at subcontracting companies.

Schumer announced that with his support, final federal financing approvals have been secured, clearing the way for execution of an agreement between Amtrak and Alstom.

The takeway from the last sentence is that getting the RRIF loan completed has been holding up the contract award. Only taken close to a year. OTOH, if the entire $2.45 billion RRIF loan can be locked in at current federal treasury note rates, the interest rates will be extraordinarily low for a 20 to 30 year note.

If the Amtrak board votes on the contract in the next few days, maybe we will finally learn more about the trainsets that Alstom will be building.

 

[WoodyinNYC]

Looks like the Amtrak Board will be voting on signing off on the contract with Alstom this week.

http://www.eveningtribune.com/news/20160725/alstom-amtrak-come-to-terms-on-25-billion-deal

Thanks for that Good News flash.

I've been frothing over the needed big order -- 700 or 900 new single-level cars for the Regionals, the Eastern LDs, and a bunch of corridor services.

No order for anything else, not even a puny order for a couple of dozen more Viewliner sleepers, was going to happen until the Acela IIs were underway. That Top Priority absolutely blocked the tracks for anything else. (Probably not just for equipment, but any big ask of Congress for infrastructure funds, as well.) I mean, Amtrak and the FRA have their hands full with a $2.5 Billion project. Take things step at a time -- and now this chokepoint will be loosened considerably.

For the next few years we'll all be hearing about the coming new trains -- with more capacity, many more riders, higher revenues, bigger operating surpluses, faster, better. And soonish -- 5 or 6 years? -- we'll actually see it happen.

That will be the best time to make the case for more new equipment, to add capacity, gain more riders, count more revenue, reduce costs, etc. if Amtrak hasn't won the order before then.

 

[afigg]

Senator Schumer's office posted a press release on the pending completion of the contract award. With a seriously wordy title:

SCHUMER ANNOUNCES: FINAL HURDLES HAVE BEEN CLEARED, AMTRAK BOARD WILL AWARD HORNELL’S ALSTOM START OF $2.5 BILLION PROGRAM TO BUILD SAFER, NEXT-GENERATION HIGH-SPEED TRAINS; SENATOR SAYS PROJECT WILL CREATE 750 JOBS INCLUDING 400 DIRECT MANUFACTURING JOBS AT ALSTOM IN HORNELL.

 

[Triley]

Looks like the Amtrak Board will be voting on signing off on the contract with Alstom this week.

http://www.eveningtribune.com/news/20160725/alstom-amtrak-come-to-terms-on-25-billion-deal

Thanks for that Good News flash.

I've been frothing over the needed big order -- 700 or 900 new single-level cars for the Regionals, the Eastern LDs, and a bunch of corridor services.

No order for anything else, not even a puny order for a couple of dozen more Viewliner sleepers, was going to happen until the Acela IIs were underway. That Top Priority absolutely blocked the tracks for anything else. (Probably not just for equipment, but any big ask of Congress for infrastructure funds, as well.) I mean, Amtrak and the FRA have their hands full with a $2.5 Billion project. Take things step at a time -- and now this chokepoint will be loosened considerably.

For the next few years we'll all be hearing about the coming new trains -- with more capacity, many more riders, higher revenues, bigger operating surpluses, faster, better. And soonish -- 5 or 6 years? -- we'll actually see it happen.

That will be the best time to make the case for more new equipment, to add capacity, gain more riders, count more revenue, reduce costs, etc. if Amtrak hasn't won the order before then.

Boardman had written in Arrive magazine earlier this year as stating that plans were to have the replacements coming in some time 2019, approximately the time all renovations would be finished in WAS. Now we all know the replacements won't come in on time, and then you need to allow time for the units to undergo testing, both T&E to qualify on them and OBS to get orientated to them, etc. I don't know how Alstom is, and we'll have to wait on the final details to see exactly how much design of the units will have to be custom done for Amtrak and all that, so I'd like to hope we'll see them within 4 years, but I won't hold my breath.