Acela II RFP information announcement

[jis]

It's the Veep, Amtrak Joe making the Announcement in Wilmington. It's all over the News and Social Media.

Senator Schumer is reportedly furious!

What does he want. He has already made the announcement half a dozen times, hasn't he?

On the other hand, he certainly fought long and hard to get this work for Alstom. No matter how annoying and how much of a grandstander he may be, it's a pretty obvious slight to not have him there.

Is it the case that Schumer is not invited to the event? That would indeed be strange and something to throw a hissy over. But if the tantrum is only about the VP being the lead announcer then that is simply silly IMHO.

 

[afigg]

OK, finally there is some official news on the new trainsets and the $2.45 billion RRIF loan. A 1 hour long video of Biden's announcement is available, which I am I currently listening to.

DeIaware Online: In Wilmington, Biden announces $2.45 billion for Amtrak. Excerpt: (The reporter's words not mine)

With the money, Amtrak will purchase 28 new trains for the Northeast Corridor’s Acela service between Boston and Washington, D.C., which will expand its capacity by 40 percent. The Northeast Corridor is the nation’s busiest and only profitable rail line.

The funds will also pay for track upgrades south of Baltimore and station upgrades in New York City, Baltimore, and Washington D.C.

Now we wait for press release's and industry press articles to provide useful details.

 

[districtRich]

Here's the Amtrak announcement with a slick video! I can't wait to ride on one of these.

http://blog.amtrak.com/2016/08/amtraks-next-generation-high-speed-trains/

 

[Fan Railer]

I thought the RFP specified EMUs with distributed power... these certainly don't look like EMUs with distributed power...

 

[jis]

from the Trains Magazine:

http://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/2016/08/26-amtrak-alstom-final

The RFP was not very specific. It suggested various things but ultimately asked the vendor to propose something that would meet the performance requirements. When I asked a friend of mine at a relatively senior level in Amtrak NEC Capital Program that is how he explained the structure of the RFP to me.

Anyway, it appears to be basic articulated TGV with Pendolino suspension. If you go way back in this thread you will find me speculating that it would be exactly that based on rumors that were going around back then.

 

[mrpresident1776]

No kidding, it looks they slapped power cars onto a 7 car Pendolino. I thought the original spec was for up to 200mph speed and 40% more capacity, not 33% according to the Alstom press release. I guess they must have done a lot of negotiating in the trade off process.

http://www.alstom.com/press-centre/2016/8/alstom-to-provide-amtrak-with-its-new-generation-of-high-speed-train/

Correction, make that 9 cars between the power cars. The video shows 7 but Alstom cites 9.

 

[afigg]

No kidding, it looks they slapped power cars onto a 7 car Pendolino. I thought the original spec was for up to 200mph speed and 40% more capacity, not 33% according to the Alstom press release. I guess they must have done a lot of negotiating in the trade off process.

The original specs were when Amtrak was teamed with CHSRA on an attempt at a joint bid. That fell apart because the needs of the NEC was simply way too different from that of a new 220 mph system. Anything above 160 mph will require new dedicated tracks, so any capability of operating > 160 mph is not going to be utilized for a long time, if ever.

The Alstom trainsets will be the Avelia Liberty line. Question for those who know the Alstom product line is what is the closest existing Alstom trainset to what we see here?

 

[ToniCounter]

On the other hand, he certainly fought long and hard to get this work for Alstom. No matter how annoying and how much of a grandstander he may be, it's a pretty obvious slight to not have him there.

Vive la France!

 

[Fan Railer]

No kidding, it looks they slapped power cars onto a 7 car Pendolino. I thought the original spec was for up to 200mph speed and 40% more capacity, not 33% according to the Alstom press release. I guess they must have done a lot of negotiating in the trade off process.

The original specs were when Amtrak was teamed with CHSRA on an attempt at a joint bid. That fell apart because the needs of the NEC was simply way too different from that of a new 220 mph system. Anything above 160 mph will require new dedicated tracks, so any capability of operating > 160 mph is not going to be utilized for a long time, if ever.

The Alstom trainsets will be the Avelia Liberty line. Question for those who know the Alstom product line is what is the closest existing Alstom trainset to what we see here?

It's really a mix of the existing stuff. Power car with Pendolino-like coaches and tilting technology on jacobs bogies (like the TGV and AGV).

Alstom responded to a twitter question about the trainset configuration, albeit in French, but you should be able to understand it: "Bonsoir, pour Amtrak, ce sont des rames de 9 voitures, mais l'Avelia Liberty est modulaire : 8 à 14 voitures"

 

[jis]

The first Avelias are being delivered to NTV in Italy:

http://www.alstom.com/press-centre/2015/10/alstom-and-ntv-sign-a-contract-for-the-purchase-of-8-pendolino-high-speed-trains-and-20-years-of-maintenance/

Alstom's rendition of the Amtrak announcement:

http://www.alstom.com/press-centre/2016/8/alstom-to-provide-amtrak-with-its-new-generation-of-high-speed-train/

Wonders of retroactive marketing naming of products that have already been sold using a different name. Surprisingly Alstom's global marketing site has no mention of Avelia in any form, and yet they have apparently sold 1100 of them according to this press release.

Anyway as long as it is a reliable TGV design with a reliable and well tried and tested Pendolino tilt system, no reason to complain.

As Alstom says they are configurable from 8 to 14 cars but are being delivered with 9 cars.

 

[mrpresident1776]

The first Avelias are being delivered to NTV in Italy:

http://www.alstom.com/press-centre/2015/10/alstom-and-ntv-sign-a-contract-for-the-purchase-of-8-pendolino-high-speed-trains-and-20-years-of-maintenance/

Alstom's rendition of the Amtrak announcement:

http://www.alstom.com/press-centre/2016/8/alstom-to-provide-amtrak-with-its-new-generation-of-high-speed-train/

Wonders of retroactive marketing naming of products that have already been sold using a different name. Surprisingly Alstom's golbal marketing site has no mention of Avelia in any form, and yet they have apparently sold 1100 of them according to this rpess release.

Anyway as long as it is a reliable TGV design with a reliable and well tried and tested Pendolino tilt system, no reason to complain.

Exactly, the cars themselves look like the articulated AGV jacobs bogies, have similar length and only 1 set of doors per car but with the same tilt as Pendolinos.

 

[Fan Railer]

Avelia just seems to be the overarching family name for all of Alstom's HSR trains (Pendolino, Euroduplex, AGV). They're just adding the Amtrak variant (Liberty) to that list.

 

[jis]

Yes, but the name did not exist until the very recent past. It was retroactively applied to a whole bunch of things.

It is sort of like an Auto manufacturer sold me say for example Honda sold me a Honda Civic, and five years later they started calling my Honda Civic a Honda Insignia (or some other funny name they came up with.

Don't get me wrong. I don't really care what they call their products, but calling something that was sold using a different name something else five years later is shall we say... an interesting approach.

BTW, even Alstom differentiates between the AGVs that the Italian outfit that runs them and the Avelia that they sold them as the next generation. It is just interesting ... that's all.

 

[jis]

And here is a CNN report on the Joe Biden event at his namesake station in Wilmington DE

http://www.cnn.com/2016/08/26/politics/joe-biden-amtrak-loan/

Brian Gallagher apparently had a chat with Amtrak Joe after the announcement ....

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10207348564418051&set=pcb.10207348573938289&type=3&theater

 

[ToniCounter]

Avelia just seems to be the overarching family name for all of Alstom's HSR trains (Pendolino, Euroduplex, AGV). They're just adding the Amtrak variant (Liberty) to that list.

I dont' know... first time I saw the word "Avelia" and all I could think of was how that word can also spell "a alive"

 

[Andrew]

Very cool stuff!!

Check out this Fact Sheet Link:

http://media.amtrak.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/NextGen-Fact-Sheet_Proof5.pdf

 

[afigg]

The deployment schedule spelled out on the website and in the fact sheet should be noted:

The first trainset prototype will be ready for testing in 2019 and the first trainset will enter revenue service in early 2021, with all trainsets in service and the current fleet retired in early 2022.

So instead of 2019 for initial revenue service, or 2020, it now slips to early 2021. And the current Acelas will be retired in 2022 according to the plan.

 

[west point]

There may be some fuzzy math here. Believe each train set will carry 33% more passengers. Going from 20 -1s to 28 -2s would be 40% more trains. Total new seats ~ 86% more ?

The ability to add cars may be achievable due to this being a model with much good past history.

 

[jis]

The deployment schedule spelled out on the website and in the fact sheet should be noted:

The first trainset prototype will be ready for testing in 2019 and the first trainset will enter revenue service in early 2021, with all trainsets in service and the current fleet retired in early 2022.

So instead of 2019 for initial revenue service, or 2020, it now slips to early 2021. And the current Acelas will be retired in 2022 according to the plan.

2019 was unrealistic anyway.

It was hardly going to be the case that Alstom would start delivering trains to Amtrak faster than it does to SNCF, specially when setting up a new factory and training a whole new set of people is involved.

There may be some fuzzy math here. Believe each train set will carry 33% more passengers. Going from 20 -1s to 28 -2s would be 40% more trains. Total new seats ~ 86% more ?

The ability to add cars may be achievable due to this being a model with much good past history.

Specially since cars similar to these will be still in active manufacturing for other customers for a while, unlike the once off Acela cars which were out of manufacture once they were delivered to Amtrak.

The Brits were able to do that with their Pendolinos, and supposedly they may even be able to convert some to dual mode half way through their life.

 

[frequentflyer]

So its a Pendolino then, Amtrak is smart to use trusted and tested technology. Less chances of teething problems.

Oh and a new livery too, should look good on the Sprinters too. Of course by 2022 will Amfleet still be running the rails or will their replacement wear this new livery too.

 

[frequentflyer]

From the reading the press release some of the 2.5 billion will go to the new Moynihan train station? Its really a go then? The biggest basement in the world is about to be replaced?...........tears of joy are streaming down my face.....

 

[PRR 60]

So its a Pendolino then, Amtrak is smart to use trusted and tested technology. Less chances of teething problems.

Oh and a new livery too, should look good on the Sprinters too. Of course by 2022 will Amfleet still be running the rails or will their replacement wear this new livery too.

I would not put much stock in the livery shown on 2016 renderings and video. When the Acela order was announced in 1997, the trainset was called "American Flyer" and it had a relatively traditional livery. When it entered revenue service in late 2000, it was Acela Express, and had the blue glob livery.

American Flyer / Acela Express

 

[Bob Dylan]

Hopefully Amtrak Joe will use his influence in having the new CEO bring back Competent Execs that the Boardman Cartel ran off, and to get rid of the "cut your way to profitability" Bean Counters! ! ( Rosenwald as Chief of the LD Trains would be a great start!)

 

[WoodyinNYC]

There may be some fuzzy math here. Believe each train set will carry 33% more passengers. Going from 20 -1s to 28 -2s would be 40% more trains. Total new seats ~ 86% more ?

The ability to add cars may be achievable due to this being a model with much good past history.

Think you put your finger on something: We'd been thinking about EMU trainsets, with a fixed number of cars, like Talgos. But Alstom is talking about being modulaire, and the trains could fixed to be longer in the future.

So looks like capacity is set to increase fuzzy math ~86%, but it could increase still more if ridership is growing and Amtrak decides to lengthen the trains.

 

[WoodyinNYC]

... bring back Competent Execs that the Boardman Cartel ran off ... (Rosenwald as Chief of the LD Trains would be a great start!)

Who was the exec sacked after messing up the negotiations with the UP over a daily Sunset? Didn't Rosenwald disappear about that time? I don't know the palace gossip, but it seemed at the time ...