Adirondack discussion

shop deals on amazon
Shop deals on ebay
Advertise with us
Amtrak Unlimited Discussion Forum

Help Support Amtrak Unlimited Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Trains newswire had a post about another RR got OHIO funds of $1.23M to rehab 14 miles of track for a total RR cost of $2.4M to FRA class 2. Now 47 Adirondack miles can we WAG a guess that total costs would be around ~~ $8.0M ? Now if CN kicks in same percentage then the anonymous funds might be ~~ $4.0 M ??
 
zephyr17 said:
All the reporting seems to be pretty fuzzy about the source of funds. Most simply say "CN and Amtrak came to an agreement". CN doubtless is receiving funds to do the work. No one seems to want to mention the funds, nor where they came from. NYS passed discretely through Amtrak somehow within its operational subsidy? Some kind of Amtrak slush fund or more creative Amtrak accounting without NYS participation? Certainly no one is crowing about how "we made it possible" other than Schumer and Stafanik, apparently through sheer force of their personalities.

I may be being petty, but in order to get a second Vancouver train, my Washington state tax dollars had to be spent in British Columbia for rail infrastructure, a new CTC siding at Colebrook. It was above board and clear, as was the fact that neither Amtrak nor BC kicked in. I think would resent if federal Amtrak subsidy dollars were spent for this rather than the work being on New York's dime. Add in the fact that the Cascades is a far more viable and popular service than the Adirondack could ever hope to be.
Click to expand...
Point well take. A noon departure would help from Vancouver and Seattle too. Great Northern had 3 trips each way until about 1959 I believe.
 
Amtrak25 said:
My July trip was truncated to Saratoga. I left a callback number to cancel the whole thing. I am not transferring from train to Trailways, but will take Trailways from NY
Click to expand...
Same message received here yesterday. Fortunately, it worked for me to switch to the Maple Leaf, with a hotel night in Toronto instead of Montreal, then a VIA train to Montreal. From there I'm heading of to Quebec City and Halifax. Return was already from Toronto. Was able to take the Montrealer this spring while it was actually running.
 
Amtrak25 said:
My July trip was truncated to Saratoga. I left a callback number to cancel the whole thing. I am not transferring from train to Trailways, but will take Trailways from NY
Click to expand...
A few friends of mine visiting from India had bookings on the Adirondack in August. They got email message truncating their trip to Saratoga, and nothing about any bus connection, and no refund so far of anything.

My friends have me to beat up on Amtrak to at least get their money back. The reservation records are no longer available on line and the call wait times are over half an hour. So just left a callback thing and hoping that they will actually call back. One never knows for sure with Amtrak I guess.

On a related note, which is best bus service from NY to Montreal?
 
I did the callback thing. They predicted 30 minutes. It was 45. No problem getting it back.

Before that, I reserved a trip on Adirondack Trailways on an 11:40am bus. It costs $79.99.

Amtrak and State DOT has been totally secretive about the deal they made with CN, whose money was involved, how much money was invloved, what is the extent of the trackwork, and what is the timeframe. They have no right to behave as such - that is public money.

We simply have to dismiss Amtrak as a 3rd world carrier like Greyhound, except Greyhound washes their vehicles. At this point, Amtrak might as well put up 180 day train off notices, forget about it, and dismiss both CN and Amtrak as too uncivilized and stupid to behave in an acceptable manner.
 
Last edited:
The callback did come through and I did manage to get my friend's tickets refunded. Unfortunately since there is some level of uncertainly involved in their international itinerary coming from India etc. I will have to get the Flex Fare and cannot risk the non-refundable cheapest fare. But I think I have got them all set now. Adirondack Trailways it is, by the 11:40am departure.

If they really do get a more permanent fix out of all this it might still be worth it public money or not. I doubt that they can spend beyond the appropriation anyway. The NYSDOT accounts are quite public the last time I looked. But I am sure the ESPA folks are keeping an eagle eye on it.
 
Last edited:
Don't even think of taking 69 stub train to Albany or Saratoga and transfer to experience more train / less bus. Not only would it cost more, but last year's 69 for me was delayed with mechanical problems for nearly 2 hours leaving NYP, 10 minutes ahead of 281.

The Gate Dragons evidently hadn't been fed that morning or were on steroids yelling at people to stand in a straight line and checking e-tickets. Lots of actuarial students were in panic with exams late that afternoon and early the next morning in both Albany and Saratoga, with all future trains were booked. They were about to spend money to book themselves on another train. I was telling the few I sat next to to go back to Penn Station from Moynihan, go down another stairway, and stow yourselves on 281, which I came close to doing to make my Montreal bus. I made it with a CDTA connection by 45 minutes after shlepping around vancant lots looking for the Trailways trailer.

No way am I going to risk going through that crap again. I got up 3 hours early for nothing. Trailways is a great outfit, nice drivers, late model Prevost coaches, with all the Adirondack, Pine Hills, and New York Trailways coaches mixed. The relief driver from Albany was to be an hour late, so the NYC driver was nice enough to agreee to take the bus all the way to Montreal. Without a stop at Longuiel, we arrived there a half hour early. The schedule was 15 minutes earlier until a few months ago.
 
Last edited:
Just-Thinking-51 said:
Three weeks ago the politicians were bragging about how they fixed it. Can’t wait to see a reply from my congresswoman. Summer service does not start after September 9th.
Click to expand...
If your congresswoman is who I think she is, perhaps at the same time she can explain why she and the rest of the House colleagues plan to cut Amtrak funding by 60%.
 
PaTrainFan said:
If your congresswoman is who I think she is, perhaps at the same time she can explain why she and the rest of the House colleagues plan to cut Amtrak funding by 60%.
Click to expand...
Oh dear is this your first time questioning a politician about what they do?

Vote against spending the money, then when it’s passed take credit for the money that goes into your district. Pretty much SOP. This congresswoman does not give local interviews or have town hall meetings for a reason.

Welcome to the swamp.
 
Amtrak25 said:
There is a complete lack of transparency, lack of public announcements, and lack of passenger advisories on what is going on with CN trackage, what is the timeframe, whose money is involved, and why the misleading 6 weeks rhetoric that is now 16 or 18 weeks.
Click to expand...
Amtrak, CN (and NYDOT) would do themselves a great favor if they gave a more detailed explanation of the work being done north of the border on the project to restore the CN Rouses Point Subdivision to proper passenger standards and why it has just been extended from 6 to 18. weeks. And I still think the train should be running from New York to Plattsburgh and if at all possible with a bus connection from there to Montreal.

BUT--we need to be patient with the project as well. The ADIRONDACK has faced severe speed restrictions because of deteriorated track conditions that finally are getting addressed. It should be no surprise if supplies have not all arrived, and/or if new issues are found as the work progresses. In not explaining these things the railroads and their government route sponsors are creating unneeded speculation.

BUT we need to tone down what sometimes almost seems like doomsday criticism and acknowledge that what we've long been waiting for--a better and faster route to Montreal is coming at last.

I have been guilty of cynicism here as well, but for over a decade I also demanded that we needed to do the track upgrades to reach Gare Central. It's finally happening.

I am trying to find out more details about the project that can be legitimately shared, but let us also be grateful that this part of the work to speed up in ADIRONDACK (and eventually the VERMONTER too to Montreal) is at last underway.
 
The other thing Amtrak should have handled better is the sudden cancellations related to the extension of the track embargo. But well, I just ameliorated my anger by shrugging my shoulders and saying "Well, it is Amtrak", after I had jumped through hoops seemingly to get a refunds for tickets booked by my friends visiting from India, which should have been automatic without asking as they did the cancellation, not they.
 
With trip truncated to Saratoga, they called it a "schedule change". No hint of a partial refund for a shortened trip, never mind that Amtrak is so stupid to think we would all call Uber or find a bus to take from there to Montreal, not cancel the whole thing.

Go look for a Montreal reservation now, the system will respond that no route exists.
 
I am not personally familiar with this line and certainly the segment requiring the most work, but those that are, what are they likely doing? This almost sounds a complete rebuild. How many miles are we talking about? From descriptions the one segment seemed to be in pretty rough shape. Hopefully this extended shut down will be worth the trouble to all concerned in the long run.
 
PaTrainFan said:
I am not personally familiar with this line and certainly the segment requiring the most work, but those that are, what are they likely doing? This almost sounds a complete rebuild. How many miles are we talking about? From descriptions the one segment seemed to be in pretty rough shape. Hopefully this extended shut down will be worth the trouble to all concerned in the long run.
Click to expand...
The section needing the most work is a lightly used CN freight line. Someone else here knew the frequency of use and posted it, which I don't fully recall, but think it was maybe twice a week? Most CN cross border traffic in the general area goes to the New England Central, former GT, through St. Albans (former Montrealer route), not much to CP's former D&H at Rouses Point.

It was always slow, 25 mph, but during COVID apparently CN let maintenance slip on part of it to the level of a glorified industrial lead. The really, really bad part is only 5 miles, to Cantic, where the line to St. Albans splits off. But I kept hearing 25 miles of 10 mph heat related speed restrictions, too. I imagine the deal struck with CN might involve up to the whole 42 miles of the Rouses Point Sub. When railroads get money from someone else, they tend to try to get as much as they logically can.

The whole line is mostly stick rail. I imagine they may relay it with second hand CWR, although stick rail is inherently more forgiving of temperature extremes. Maybe they discovered subgrade issues with the railbed that must be addressed, causing the time extension. No one really knows, Amtrak, CN and the actual source of the funds (NYS DOT?) are being very closed-mouth about the whole thing.

Finally, the stated objective is not to raise the speed on the line, but rather to ensure the ability to more consistently operate at 25 mph rather than being subject to miles long 10 mph speed restrictions when the weather is anticipated to exceed 30°C/86°F.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top