Airo - Amfleet I replacement Siemens Inter City Trainsets (ICT) (2021 - 1Q 2024)

[cocojacoby]

Why would the Downeaster be B1? It doesn't run under wire anywhere on its route and wouldn't need pantagraphs even if the MBTA eventually electrifies its trackage.

 

[GDRRiley]

Why would the Downeaster be B1? It doesn't run under wire anywhere on its route and wouldn't need pantagraphs even if the MBTA eventually electrifies its trackage.

because amtrak isn't getting any sets for the NEC that don't have the option to run under wires

 

[cocojacoby]

So assign it a Type D. It doesn't actually run on the NEC.

 

[Touchdowntom9]

Does this order increase the capacity for either number of trains or the number of seats compared to the Sprinter Amfleet I or Genesis p42 Amfleet I rollingstock currently in service? Was just curious to know if this order gives us more or less in terms of the actual rollingstock--would be nice to always have a few extra trainsets or traincars available in the event of sellouts or busy weekends. Amtrak would certainly benefit from the additional revenue. Seems inexcusable that Amtrak would ever be capacity constrained esp on the NEC and beyond

 

[GDRRiley]

So assign it a Type D. It doesn't actually run on the NEC.

The only type D planned on being ordered are for Cascade.

Does this order increase the capacity for either number of trains or the number of seats compared to the Sprinter Amfleet I or Genesis p42 Amfleet I rollingstock currently in service? Was just curious to know if this order gives us more or less in terms of the actual rollingstock--would be nice to always have a few extra trainsets or traincars available in the event of sellouts or busy weekends. Amtrak would certainly benefit from the additional revenue. Seems inexcusable that Amtrak would ever be capacity constrained esp on the NEC and beyond

No the fleet is about the same size at this time 492 amfleet I built, 435 in service.

438 venture cars order at this time there is options to double if not triple the order

 

[west point]

438 venture cars order at this time there is options to double if not triple the order

Just another option as the V-2s were???

 

[GDRRiley]

Just another option as the V-2s were???

They've got 140 more sets they could be any version of the ones listed above
but I don't see them changing the cars a lot unless they decide to go pure electric or lengthen sets.

 

[MARC Rider]

They've got 140 more sets they could be any version of the ones listed above
but I don't see them changing the cars a lot unless they decide to go pure electric or lengthen sets.

..or if they want to add more service. The New York - Scranton line is now in the pipeline, they're seriously talking about New York - Allentown and Philadelphia - Reading. How about more frequencies on the Empire Corridor? Or more service to Vermont? And more frequencies between Washington and Richmond and other Virginia points. All of these will require more equipment, no?

 

[John Webb]

I am a bit wary of what I saw in the video and the attendant discussion. No mention of what plans are, if any, for new food service cars and in the case of the Night Owl (listed as one of the trains receiving the new equipment) sleeping cars. Anyone know anything about this? Or are we facing a future of vending machines and coach only seating?

 

[jis]

I am a bit wary of what I saw in the video and the attendant discussion. No mention of what plans are, if any, for new food service cars and in the case of the Night Owl (listed as one of the trains receiving the new equipment) sleeping cars. Anyone know anything about this? Or are we facing a future of vending machines and coach only seating?

There is plenty of material available on the food service (Cafe) car, though they may not be readily available on this site. RPA representatives have been present at the soft setup reviews and reported back on it at RPA. Actually the Cafe cars look pretty good.

There are no plans for Sleeping Cars in the ICTs. The configuration of ICTs are available in quite some detail. If there is an overnight train with Sleeper that set will have to come out of the LD pool, that much is pretty clear.

 

[rickycourtney]

So assign it a Type D. It doesn't actually run on the NEC.

That would require maintaining another subset of equipment in the NEC pool. I'm sure Amtrak did a cost/benefit analysis and determined the extra cost of buying the electric equipment for all cars was less than the costs of keeping a subset of equipment for the Downeaster.
Furthermore, in the 20-40 year lifespan of these trainsets, the proposed North–South Rail Link may be built, connecting Boston North and South station. In that case, it would be necessary to have equipment that can run under wire.

 

[jis]

That would require maintaining another subset of equipment in the NEC pool. I'm sure Amtrak did a cost/benefit analysis and determined the extra cost of buying the electric equipment for all cars was less than the costs of keeping a subset of equipment for the Downeaster.
Furthermore, in the 20-40 year lifespan of these trainsets, the proposed North–South Rail Link may be built, connecting Boston North and South station. In that case, it would be necessary to have equipment that can run under wire.

Indeed, transformers and rectifiers require surprisingly little maintenance. No moving parts at all.

 

[GDRRiley]

..or if they want to add more service. The New York - Scranton line is now in the pipeline, they're seriously talking about New York - Allentown and Philadelphia - Reading. How about more frequencies on the Empire Corridor? Or more service to Vermont? And more frequencies between Washington and Richmond and other Virginia points. All of these will require more equipment, no?

They can order more sure
I'm just saying I don't expect if and when they do for the cars to be different other than some minor changes

 

[Willbridge]

...
There are no plans for Sleeping Cars in the ICTs. The configuration of ICTs are available in quite some detail. If there is an overnight train with Sleeper that set will have to come out of the LD pool, that much is pretty clear.

It might better be described as a LD puddle rather than pool.

 

[cocojacoby]

That would require maintaining another subset of equipment in the NEC pool. I'm sure Amtrak did a cost/benefit analysis and determined the extra cost of buying the electric equipment for all cars was less than the costs of keeping a subset of equipment for the Downeaster.
Furthermore, in the 20-40 year lifespan of these trainsets, the proposed North–South Rail Link may be built, connecting Boston North and South station. In that case, it would be necessary to have equipment that can run under wire.

Seems like it's a simple matter of switching out one car, the one with the unnecessary electrical equipment. That equipment will be riding around unused for years. Converting a D1 to a B1 would be an easy job I would think. You know after 20 years of nonuse that electrical equipment will be obsolete and useless.

 

[rickycourtney]

Seems like it's a simple matter of switching out one car, the one with the unnecessary electrical equipment. That equipment will be riding around unused for years. Converting a D1 to a B1 would be an easy job I would think. You know after 20 years of nonuse that electrical equipment will be obsolete and useless.

You’re assuming that this equipment will be completely captive to the Downeaster. It likely won’t be. Just like today, there will be occasional times where equipment will need heavy maintenance that can’t be performed in Maine. If all the trainsets are identical it’s an easy swap.

 

[jis]

Seems like it's a simple matter of switching out one car, the one with the unnecessary electrical equipment. That equipment will be riding around unused for years. Converting a D1 to a B1 would be an easy job I would think. You know after 20 years of nonuse that electrical equipment will be obsolete and useless.

Whatever makes you think that the same consist will remain captive to the Downeaster for 20 years?

 

[TransitTyrant]

I am a bit wary of what I saw in the video and the attendant discussion. No mention of what plans are, if any, for new food service cars and in the case of the Night Owl (listed as one of the trains receiving the new equipment) sleeping cars. Anyone know anything about this? Or are we facing a future of vending machines and coach only seating?

1.) There is a cafe car, the Midwest trains will have a cafe, the ICTs will have a similar one.
2.) Probably shouldn’t worry too much about the Night Owl, it’s one train.

 

[GDRRiley]

I am a bit wary of what I saw in the video and the attendant discussion. No mention of what plans are, if any, for new food service cars and in the case of the Night Owl (listed as one of the trains receiving the new equipment) sleeping cars. Anyone know anything about this? Or are we facing a future of vending machines and coach only seating?

I'd expect the owl will keep viewliner cars mixed with venture cars. Unless they order venture car sleepers for the east coast

 

[jis]

I'd expect the owl will keep viewliner cars mixed with venture cars. Unless they order venture car sleepers for the east coast

The overnight train will be an ICT from what I gather. So it is unlikely that there will be a Viewliner anything in its consist. In the last 20 years it has had a Sleeper only during short intervals here and there.

 

[GDRRiley]

The overnight train will be an ICT from what I gather. So it is unlikely that there will be a Viewliner anything in its consist. In the last 20 years it has had a Sleeper only during short intervals here and there.

you could mix a viewliner car in but where would be the challenge. They could also just use whatever LD coaches amtrak gets or if amtrak orders singles/pairs of coaches to be mixed in

 

[Tlcooper44]

The overnight train will be an ICT from what I gather. So it is unlikely that there will be a Viewliner anything in its consist. In the last 20 years it has had a Sleeper only during short intervals here and there.

Are there no plans to restore the sleeper service they brought back in 2021? I’ve heard chatter here and there but nothing concrete beyond a general desire to bring it back.

 

[cirdan]

Indeed, transformers and rectifiers require surprisingly little maintenance. No moving parts at all.

but especially transformers represent a lot of dead weight.

 

[jis]

but especially transformers represent a lot of dead weight.

So does an idle prime mover. That is the price one pays for using dual mode. But general operating experience with currently operating dual mode EDMUs and locomotives suggests that the weight cost is not intolerable and is manageable as long as things are distributed around to keep axle loads from becoming excessive.

 

[Steve4031]

The sleepers removed from the Night Owl could be put to better use on a single-level Capital Limited or adding capacity to the Cardinal.