Airo - Amfleet I replacement Siemens Inter City Trainsets (ICT) (2021 - 1Q 2024)

[west point]

4200hp is the Chargers power in diesel mode but as of now the electric versions HP is unknown.

It is somewhat more complicated than that. First specifications.

Fuel type Diesel Fuel capacity SC-44/SCB-40: 1,800 US gal (6,800 L; 1,500 imp gal) ALC-42/SCV-42: 2,200 US gal (8,300 L; 1,800 imp gal) Prime mover Cummins QSK95 RPM range 600–1,800 Engine type 45° V16, four stroke cycle Aspiration Turbocharger Displacement 95 liters (5,800 cu in)[3] Traction motors Siemens 3-phase AC induction motors; 978 hp (729 kW) each Head end power 660 or 1,000 kW; 3φ, 60 Hz, 480 V AC Cylinders 16 Cylinder size 5.9375 liters (362.33 cu in) Transmission AC–DC–AC Loco brake Dynamic, regenerative, electropneumatic Train brakes Electropneumatic Safety systems Positive train control: ACSES II, I-ETMS

hidePerformance figures Maximum speed 125 mph (200 km/h) Power output SCB-40: 4,000 hp (3,000 kW) ALC-42/SCV-42: 4,200 hp (3,100 kW) SC-44: 4,400 hp (3,300 kW) Tractive effort Starting: 290 kN (65,000 lbf) Continuous: 275 kN (62,000 lbf) Factor of adh. 4.07 (24.57%)

So in E mode almost 8000HP tractive effort for an ICT if same tractions motors in APV. 978 x 8 = 7824HP; In diesel mode you have the QSK rating and subtract the variable HEP draw = HP available to traction motors. Now to complicate it further tractive effort cannot be more than adhesion factors which can be less than available HP mostly at speeds below 12 MPH but can be higher with slippery rail.

 

[Touchdowntom9]

It is somewhat more complicated than that. First specifications.

Fuel type Diesel Fuel capacity SC-44/SCB-40: 1,800 US gal (6,800 L; 1,500 imp gal) ALC-42/SCV-42: 2,200 US gal (8,300 L; 1,800 imp gal) Prime mover Cummins QSK95 RPM range 600–1,800 Engine type 45° V16, four stroke cycle Aspiration Turbocharger Displacement 95 liters (5,800 cu in)[3] Traction motors Siemens 3-phase AC induction motors; 978 hp (729 kW) each Head end power 660 or 1,000 kW; 3φ, 60 Hz, 480 V AC Cylinders 16 Cylinder size 5.9375 liters (362.33 cu in) Transmission AC–DC–AC Loco brake Dynamic, regenerative, electropneumatic Train brakes Electropneumatic Safety systems Positive train control: ACSES II, I-ETMS

hidePerformance figures Maximum speed 125 mph (200 km/h) Power output SCB-40: 4,000 hp (3,000 kW) ALC-42/SCV-42: 4,200 hp (3,100 kW) SC-44: 4,400 hp (3,300 kW) Tractive effort Starting: 290 kN (65,000 lbf) Continuous: 275 kN (62,000 lbf) Factor of adh. 4.07 (24.57%)

So in E mode almost 8000HP tractive effort for an ICT if same tractions motors in APV. 978 x 8 = 7824HP; In diesel mode you have the QSK rating and subtract the variable HEP draw = HP available to traction motors. Now to complicate it further tractive effort cannot be more than adhesion factors which can be less than available HP mostly at speeds below 12 MPH but can be higher with slippery rail.

This assumes 4 motors in the APV and 4 in the Loco, correct?

 

[Touchdowntom9]

NJTransit runs 8 MLVs using a single ALP45DP, so it is not as if the train will not move if it has only 4200HP. But it won't be very nippy. I also do not think they will ever go to a ten car set since its usefulness with full utilization may be somewhat limited. It is better to run two 6-8 car trains than one ten car train, unless you are in deamnd situation like in India, in which case 10 cars is a little less than half of what you need in a consist



My suspicion is that the electric gear will be sized to supply the power that 4 trucks can handle, so the HP could be double that of the diesel mode. But we will know for sure only when they choose to let us know.

Wouldn’t it be pretty easy for the Airos to still use the APV motors while in desiel territory under the prime mover? Sure you now would have 4200 HP split across up to 8 motors instead of 4, but doesn’t that help improve tractive effort and acceleration? I would think the required equipment is already in place since it’s equipped to work that way in electric territory

 

[jis]

It is quite possible that a bulk of the Airo order will actually be manufactured in this new Siemens facility...

https://www.railwayage.com/news/sie...m-n-c-train-manufacturing-facility-expansion/

 

[Mailliw]

This article has some new interior mockups.
https://runwaygirlnetwork.com/2023/08/amtrak-divulges-fresh-details-about-airo-passenger-experience/

 

[Steve4031]

That’s an improvement over the venture cars. Hopefully the location of the usb-c plugs will be easier to reach.

 

[blueman271]

This article has some new interior mockups.
https://runwaygirlnetwork.com/2023/08/amtrak-divulges-fresh-details-about-airo-passenger-experience/

These are going to be really nice when they finally enter service in 2030.

 

[TC_NYC]

Finally improving the Business Class experience. Glad they're improving them compared to the Amfleets.

 

[Septa9739]

I wonder which "version" was ordered?

I happened upon the answer to the 10 options question by accident today. It was 8-8car sets for the NEC and 2-6 car battery sets for the Empire Service. It was hinted at in the 2022-2027 plan. That brings the projected size of the Airo fleet to 562 cars, about the current size of Amfleet 1 and 2 combined.

 

[user 32479]

Well, to be fair, Siemens is good at fixing problems. No matter what, they try and perfect their products. About 99% of the time, they succeed.

 

[jis]

The First Airo Car (link to Facebook)

 

[Acela150]

I'm rather impressed with how quickly the first car was completed.

 

[jis]

Wouldn’t it be pretty easy for the Airos to still use the APV motors while in desiel territory under the prime mover? Sure you now would have 4200 HP split across up to 8 motors instead of 4, but doesn’t that help improve tractive effort and acceleration? I would think the required equipment is already in place since it’s equipped to work that way in electric territory

Yes it improves traction. It just depends on how they choose to set things up. Either configuration is technically feasible. They require specific set of electronics to enable the configuration.

 

[west point]

Yes it improves traction. It just depends on how they choose to set things up. Either configuration is technically feasible. They require specific set of electronics to enable the configuration.

As understood the Airos will be geared for 125 MPH operation. That means that if the 4200 HP was just on 4 axels then 1050 hp on each axel will be too much slip at slow speeds. Have no idea at what speeds but the 525 HP (8 axels) starting from zero MPH should not slip. Much quicker acceleration and maybe slowing but the PTC restrictions may not change slowing curves?

Of course the HEP draw was not considered in the above. But it could be that programing of the HEP might allow the engineer to cancel HEP to reach max track speed?

 

[GDRRiley]

Of course the HEP draw was not considered in the above. But it could be that programing of the HEP might allow the engineer to cancel HEP to reach max track speed?

you don't want the AC and all the lighting getting shutoff after every train stop.

 

[Septa9739]

More propaganda with some nice shots of the assembly lines:

https://media.amtrak.com/2023/10/amtrak-airo-production-stimulates-nationwide-economy/
Given that it’s October 2023, do we think it may be possible the Cascades sees service something in 2025, rather than 2026? Presumably there is still much to do, but 30ish months seems like a long lead time from first car to first revenue train set.

 

[MARC Rider]

I'm rather impressed with how quickly the first car was completed.

Ah, but has the FRA approved the computer models?

 

[jis]

Ah, but has the FRA approved the computer models?

Fortunately they already have in this case.

 

[MARC Rider]

These are going to be really nice when they finally enter service in 2030.

Still no window shades for coach passengers, and it looks like business class will also be without window shades or curtains (which the current Amfleet 1 business class cars have.)

 

[MARC Rider]

Fortunately they already have in this case.

I guess Amtrak learned its lesson from the Acela 2 experience.

 

[user 14106]

Still no window shades for coach passengers, and it looks like business class will also be without window shades or curtains (which the current Amfleet 1 business class cars have.)

If this is a prototype can we even make such conclusions about the interiors?

 

[AmtrakBlue]

I guess Amtrak learned its lesson from the Acela 2 experience.

Well, it is a different manufacturer.

 

[Metra Electric Rider]

If this is a prototype can we even make such conclusions about the interiors?

Maybe they will use that darkening glass like airplanes have now?

 

[IAlam]

More propaganda with some nice shots of the assembly lines:

https://media.amtrak.com/2023/10/amtrak-airo-production-stimulates-nationwide-economy/
Given that it’s October 2023, do we think it may be possible the Cascades sees service something in 2025, rather than 2026? Presumably there is still much to do, but 30ish months seems like a long lead time from first car to first revenue train set.

Well, it is a different manufacturer.

Weren't the venture cars already tested on the NEC? Considering Amtrak already has the chargers they can be tested on the NEC too. Seems like Siemens has a bit of a head start on this so hopefully it won't take too long.

 

[jis]

Weren't the venture cars already tested on the NEC? Considering Amtrak already has the chargers they can be tested on the NEC too. Seems like Siemens has a bit of a head start on this so hopefully it won't take too long.

Both the Venture cars and Chargers are operating at 125 mph in commercial service on Brightline as we speak. There is nothing more to test. They are already certified for 125mph commercial operation.

Arguably the twin unit dual mode Chargers that go with the Airos may need to be separately tested and certified though. Also the Cab cars might need to be tested to 125mph. I don't know what testing and certification has been done for the California Cab Cars.

Still no window shades for coach passengers, and it looks like business class will also be without window shades or curtains (which the current Amfleet 1 business class cars have.)

I would not derive any final answer on internal furnishing at this point based on anything that is or is not in the car today.