Amtrak Derailment Philadelphia (5/12/2015)

[Bob Dylan]

Ditto!

 

[andersone]

There is a reason they call it an accident rather than an on purpose

 

[crescent2]

Thanks, Hal, for the link to the NTSB documents.

The transcripts of the interviews are very interesting. I don't think the engineer is changing his story; in his November interview he can simply recall a few additional details but nothing of the two or three minutes before the derailment. One detail is that he said he thought he might have thought the speed limit for the section before approaching the curve had a 70 mph limit instead of 80 mph, and he accelerated from about 70 mph to reach the 80 mph limit. One of the event recorder graphs seems to indicate the same. IIRC, that's his last memory until after the crash.

From what those interviewed said, he was deemed to be a very good engineer. A lack of situational awareness might seem to be the most likely cause, but I'm still not convinced that for whatever reason, he may have lost consciousness for a couple of minutes. Syncope can be triggered by a sudden stressful event, or result from no known cause. I know, because I've had occasional episodes of syncope myself.

As to the broken windshields and window, the impacts didn't seem like the usual impacts from rocks to the engineer. (I don't recall whether this was the SEPTA or Acela engineer who stated such, but one of them did.) The FBI has, of course, said there was no evidence of gunshots, but the engineers mentioned gunfire or rocks. The interview of Ms. Henry, an assistant conductor, is unique in that she recalls that train 188's engineer (Brandon) had radioed in that he "saw" gunfire or rocks or something coming at him, then she stated he laid down on the horn and then the derailment happened. No one else seems to have heard this radio transmission, and of course the engineer doesn't recall it. I'd simply wonder if she had mistaken 188's engineer for the SEPTA engineer's earlier transmission, but her timing is really off for that. I'm curious as to what the NTSB's final conclusions will be regarding her statements.

I truly hope the engineer had some medical or other unavoidable issue that was the reason he kept accelerating into the curve. It doesn't seem he'd mistake one curve for another, but he obviously accelerated too long. He seems believable to me in that he can't recall the critical moments, but I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt most times. Presumably the NTSB can make heads and tails of this. I sure can't.

 

[MattW]

There is a reason they call it an accident rather than an on purpose

Except traffic collisions here in Atlanta, I'm trying to get the term "stupid" applied rather than "accident." So on the radio in the mornings, instead of "There's an accident on the downtown connector" it would be "there's a stupid on the downtown connector."

 

[warrenwarner]

I looked through this thread to try to find the answer I'm looking for. I apologize someone has already said this but, does anyone know what happened to the new acs-64 locomotive #602. Was it taken to Beech Grove?

 

[Thirdrail7]

I looked through this thread to try to find the answer I'm looking for. I apologize someone has already said this but, does anyone know what happened to the new acs-64 locomotive #602. Was it taken to Beech Grove?

The 602 is on the King's special. if you're looking for the 601 which is the engine that was involved in the accident, it is in Wilmington, which is the base for the ACS-64s.

 

[Mokita]

Thanks, Hal, for the link to the NTSB documents.

The transcripts of the interviews are very interesting. I don't think the engineer is changing his story; in his November interview he can simply recall a few additional details but nothing of the two or three minutes before the derailment. One detail is that he said he thought he might have thought the speed limit for the section before approaching the curve had a 70 mph limit instead of 80 mph, and he accelerated from about 70 mph to reach the 80 mph limit. One of the event recorder graphs seems to indicate the same. IIRC, that's his last memory until after the crash.

From what those interviewed said, he was deemed to be a very good engineer. A lack of situational awareness might seem to be the most likely cause, but I'm still not convinced that for whatever reason, he may have lost consciousness for a couple of minutes. Syncope can be triggered by a sudden stressful event, or result from no known cause. I know, because I've had occasional episodes of syncope myself.

As to the broken windshields and window, the impacts didn't seem like the usual impacts from rocks to the engineer. (I don't recall whether this was the SEPTA or Acela engineer who stated such, but one of them did.) The FBI has, of course, said there was no evidence of gunshots, but the engineers mentioned gunfire or rocks. The interview of Ms. Henry, an assistant conductor, is unique in that she recalls that train 188's engineer (Brandon) had radioed in that he "saw" gunfire or rocks or something coming at him, then she stated he laid down on the horn and then the derailment happened. No one else seems to have heard this radio transmission, and of course the engineer doesn't recall it. I'd simply wonder if she had mistaken 188's engineer for the SEPTA engineer's earlier transmission, but her timing is really off for that. I'm curious as to what the NTSB's final conclusions will be regarding her statements.

I truly hope the engineer had some medical or other unavoidable issue that was the reason he kept accelerating into the curve. It doesn't seem he'd mistake one curve for another, but he obviously accelerated too long. He seems believable to me in that he can't recall the critical moments, but I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt most times. Presumably the NTSB can make heads and tails of this. I sure can't.

Poor training and inexperience are the culprit here. He got 'lost' at night.

 

[Ryan]

That's it, fire the NTSB, random internet poster has all the answers. Think of the tax dollars we'll save!!!

 

[Acela150]

That's it, fire the NTSB, random internet poster has all the answers. Think of the tax dollars we'll save!!!

Ryan, it's that troll again.. Don't feed it..

 

[Acela150]

Thanks, Hal, for the link to the NTSB documents.

The transcripts of the interviews are very interesting. I don't think the engineer is changing his story; in his November interview he can simply recall a few additional details but nothing of the two or three minutes before the derailment. One detail is that he said he thought he might have thought the speed limit for the section before approaching the curve had a 70 mph limit instead of 80 mph, and he accelerated from about 70 mph to reach the 80 mph limit. One of the event recorder graphs seems to indicate the same. IIRC, that's his last memory until after the crash.

From what those interviewed said, he was deemed to be a very good engineer. A lack of situational awareness might seem to be the most likely cause, but I'm still not convinced that for whatever reason, he may have lost consciousness for a couple of minutes. Syncope can be triggered by a sudden stressful event, or result from no known cause. I know, because I've had occasional episodes of syncope myself.

As to the broken windshields and window, the impacts didn't seem like the usual impacts from rocks to the engineer. (I don't recall whether this was the SEPTA or Acela engineer who stated such, but one of them did.) The FBI has, of course, said there was no evidence of gunshots, but the engineers mentioned gunfire or rocks. The interview of Ms. Henry, an assistant conductor, is unique in that she recalls that train 188's engineer (Brandon) had radioed in that he "saw" gunfire or rocks or something coming at him, then she stated he laid down on the horn and then the derailment happened. No one else seems to have heard this radio transmission, and of course the engineer doesn't recall it. I'd simply wonder if she had mistaken 188's engineer for the SEPTA engineer's earlier transmission, but her timing is really off for that. I'm curious as to what the NTSB's final conclusions will be regarding her statements.

I truly hope the engineer had some medical or other unavoidable issue that was the reason he kept accelerating into the curve. It doesn't seem he'd mistake one curve for another, but he obviously accelerated too long. He seems believable to me in that he can't recall the critical moments, but I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt most times. Presumably the NTSB can make heads and tails of this. I sure can't.

Poor training and inexperience are the culprit here. He got 'lost' at night.

I know I just said Don't feed the troll, but here are some questions for you.

1. Have you ever been on that particular stretch of railroad in the cab while being stoned? I have. More then once.

2. Have you ever partaken in any railroad training from any railroad? I have. Two different places to be honest. NS and a private facility.

3. How do you know what his experience or inexperience is or was?

4. Do you know what it's like to operate any type of train? Freight, passenger? And Train Simulators don't count towards anything.. We are talking a real locomotive with a real train.

Please enlighten us with your experience. If you don't have any, then please keep your comments to yourself. Thank you.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Like Steve's post! ( from someone who really knows since he's been there!)

 

[jis]

Acela150, you really didn't want to say that you were operating or even in the cab of a locomotive while stoned (as in high), as opposed to stoned ( as in a stone being thrown at you)

 

[cirdan]

Acela150, you really didn't want to say that you were operating or even in the cab of a locomotive while stoned (as in high), as opposed to stoned ( as in a stone being thrown at you)

Totally off topic here, but I understand that in the past people's views on alcohol were not what they are today and it was quite acceptable and normal for engineers and stokers on steam engines to down a beer or two in the course of performing their duties. I guess with the intense heat and physically tasking nature of the work the effects would have been different though from sitting in a comfortable seat in an air conditioned cab.

 

[Acela150]

Acela150, you really didn't want to say that you were operating or even in the cab of a locomotive while stoned (as in high), as opposed to stoned ( as in a stone being thrown at you)

Stoned as in High.. No. Stoned as in ballast being thrown at me. 100% Yes!

 

[MikefromCrete]

Acela150, you really didn't want to say that you were operating or even in the cab of a locomotive while stoned (as in high), as opposed to stoned ( as in a stone being thrown at you)

Stoned as in High.. No. Stoned as in ballast being thrown at me. 100% Yes!

"Rocked" is probably a better word.

 

[Ryan]

Not according to the dictionary.

 

[zephyr17]

Languages evolve. "Rocked" is less ambiguous in the contemporary context.

 

[SarahZ]

Languages evolve. "Rocked" is less ambiguous in the contemporary context.

Not really, since everyone knows what stoning is but "rocking someone to death" isn't a thing.

You don't clear up ambiguity by misusing another word in its place.

 

[Cina]

"Rock you like a hurricane" takes on a whole new meaning in this thread.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

I think this derailment thread has been derailed.

 

[Acela150]

Are we really fighting over how I worded something? We are all better then this. Let's please get back on topic. Thank you.

 

[jis]

I think this derailment thread has been derailed.

We are all a bit stoned I say ...

 

[crescent2]

Are we really fighting over how I worded something? We are all better then this. Let's please get back on topic. Thank you.

^Yes please.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

I think this derailment thread has been derailed.

Are you saying it's been rocked right off the tracks?


No, we are not.

 

[neroden]

WE WILL, WE WILL ROCK YOU!

Yeah, rocked means several other things.