Amtrak dining and cafe service

[tricia]

This will be heresy to some of us here but I'd be open to completely replacing sit-down, cooked-to-order, full-meal dining and table service with a MUCH better array of food in a cafe with tables where passengers can sit and eat anytime.

I LIKE the traditional diner service, a lot. I NEED better food on a long train ride than what Amtrak's been providing---indigestion and/or feeling sorry for ourselves after eating shouldn't be an unavoidable part of the Amtrak experience.

The need for better food could be met by a thoughtful combination of decent entree salads, freshly made sandwiches (not made in Chicago days earlier), maybe box dinners like the chicken meals some of the western trains experimented with for coach passengers a while back, cups of good-quality mac and cheese and/or soup (from a freezer, not reconstituted from a dry packet), a choice of desserts beyond candy bars and plastic-wrapped brownies, side salads and rolls available a la carte....

Lots of ways to do this. But the key is caring enough to offer a wide enough array of good-quality foods to enable the vast majority of passengers to feel satisfied, maybe even like they've enjoyed a treat---not like they're being punished for wanting to eat on the train.

And yep, I'd trade the full-service diner meals for this, if it BOTH improved the food available AND improved the financial bottom line considerably. And IF it were executed competently.

I'm now gonna hit the "post reply" button and wait for the brickbats to fly. Hope I haven't offended anyone--please don't take it personally.

 

[Mystic River Dragon]

This will be heresy to some of us here but I'd be open to completely replacing sit-down, cooked-to-order, full-meal dining and table service with a MUCH better array of food in a cafe with tables where passengers can sit and eat anytime.

I LIKE the traditional diner service, a lot. I NEED better food on a long train ride than what Amtrak's been providing---indigestion and/or feeling sorry for ourselves after eating shouldn't be an unavoidable part of the Amtrak experience.

The need for better food could be met by a thoughtful combination of decent entree salads, freshly made sandwiches (not made in Chicago days earlier), maybe box dinners like the chicken meals some of the western trains experimented with for coach passengers a while back, cups of good-quality mac and cheese and/or soup (from a freezer, not reconstituted from a dry packet), a choice of desserts beyond candy bars and plastic-wrapped brownies, side salads and rolls available a la carte....

Lots of ways to do this. But the key is caring enough to offer a wide enough array of good-quality foods to enable the vast majority of passengers to feel satisfied, maybe even like they've enjoyed a treat---not like they're being punished for wanting to eat on the train.

And yep, I'd trade the full-service diner meals for this, if it BOTH improved the food available AND improved the financial bottom line considerably. And IF it were executed competently.

I'm now gonna hit the "post reply" button and wait for the brickbats to fly. Hope I haven't offended anyone--please don't take it personally.

Extremely sensible suggestions, as always from you.

I think some of the classier trains (not necessarily LD) have done this in the past. For example, chowder and Whoopi pies on the Downeaster, chowder and an Asian teriyaki bowl that was actually good, unlike the flex one —I had that on the Cascades, plus a delicious huge cookie, in a lovely Art Deco style cafe car. Even huge and delicious chocolate chip cookies on the relatively tiny Ethan Allen.

I think Amtrak tries to standardize the menu and when it finds a gem, get rid of it. No more chowder on the Downeaster. (But I see their menu does still have Whoopi pies.)

I agree with you and would like to see them upgrade across the board instead of downgrade.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

I think Amtrak tries to standardize the menu and when it finds a gem, get rid of it. No more chowder on the Downeaster.

The Downeaster cafe is completely 3rd party hired by the state of Maine. My understanding is that the Cascades bistro car is better because WA / OR are willing to pay for better options and more staff. (The cascades used to run with 2 staff members in the cafe, not sure if they still do.)

 

[Mystic River Dragon]

The Downeaster cafe is completely 3rd party hired by the state of Maine. My understanding is that the Cascades bistro car is better because WA / OR are willing to pay for better options and more staff. (The cascades used to run with 2 staff members in the cafe, not sure if they still do.)

Thanks—I did not know the background of the running/staffing of these cafes.

I wonder why they got rid of the clam chowder (or maybe it was lobster bisque). Or maybe it was never on there, and I just projected it because it’s New England and of course I would expect it on every New England menu!

 

[Amtrak709]

This will be heresy to some of us here but I'd be open to completely replacing sit-down, cooked-to-order, full-meal dining and table service with a MUCH better array of food in a cafe with tables where passengers can sit and eat anytime.

I LIKE the traditional diner service, a lot. I NEED better food on a long train ride than what Amtrak's been providing---indigestion and/or feeling sorry for ourselves after eating shouldn't be an unavoidable part of the Amtrak experience.

The need for better food could be met by a thoughtful combination of decent entree salads, freshly made sandwiches (not made in Chicago days earlier), maybe box dinners like the chicken meals some of the western trains experimented with for coach passengers a while back, cups of good-quality mac and cheese and/or soup (from a freezer, not reconstituted from a dry packet), a choice of desserts beyond candy bars and plastic-wrapped brownies, side salads and rolls available a la carte....

Lots of ways to do this. But the key is caring enough to offer a wide enough array of good-quality foods to enable the vast majority of passengers to feel satisfied, maybe even like they've enjoyed a treat---not like they're being punished for wanting to eat on the train.

And yep, I'd trade the full-service diner meals for this, if it BOTH improved the food available AND improved the financial bottom line considerably. And IF it were executed competently.

I'm now gonna hit the "post reply" button and wait for the brickbats to fly. Hope I haven't offended anyone--please don't take it personally.

I think I would like to add my support to the general tenor and support suggested in tricia's post. My days of passenger trains began in 1966--mostly in the Pullman cars of the SAL Silver Comet Richmond to Atlanta. Even though there were still white table cloths, silver, china, etc. and some very, very good meals served I had probably missed the glory days of the dining car mystique of the 1940's, 50's, and early 1960's. I will admit that the first thing I wanted to do when I moved to Orange County CA in 1970 was to ride in a drawing room sleeper on The Super Chief LAX-CHI-LAX (pre-Amtrak) and I did just that (barely before Amtrak) and it was one of my most memorable trips in my nearly 300,000 passenger miles. Having said that, my expectations of the dining car portion of my rail travel segments over these 55+ years are based on that 1966-1971 period, i.e., the food service was acceptable and enjoyable; but not necessary luxurious. Amtrak is, of course, all we have now. If you want to continue to enjoy just being a part of rail travel, it seems to me that most of those suggestions made by tricia could go a long way toward recovering dining car service to a respectable level. Too often Amtrak services have been "inconsistent." That clearly should not be the norm.

 

[Palmland]

But the key is caring enough to offer a wide enough array of good-quality foods to enable the vast majority of passengers to feel satisfied, maybe even like they've enjoyed a treat-

Couldn’t agree more. And a cafe style setting would be great for breakfast and dinner.

However, I do think that the dining ‘experience’ is worth preserving, at least for dinner. For me that means a nice table setting (real china, multi course, good wine), a leisurely conversation with interesting table mates, and good service by a professional wait staff. And yes, I’d pay a premium for it. Probably not necessary for all trains but certainly the two night western trains, the CS, and one of the trains to Chicago and Florida.

Of course the improved cafe style food would be available in the lounge/cafe for those wanting something simpler.

 

[TheCrescent]

For Amtrak dining:

Amtrak ought to subscribe to a “heat and serve” meal delivery service. I used Freshly (about $8 per meal, and it’s delivered, and it seemed fresh), but there are others.

Just microwave the Freshly meal, put it on real china and on a table with a tablecloth.

And have a decent drink menu. The Acela has On the Rocks pre-made Old Fashioneds, which are great; why not use similar drinks system-wide?

With those, I’d be completely satisfied. And the cost wouldn’t be much more than the cost of Flexible Dining.

 

[Bob Dylan]

I totally agree with all the Posters so far!

In fact if Amtrak wanted to serve the same offerings that are served on Acela FC I wouldn't be opposed to that at all.

I really think the Good Old Days ( early 2000s) of Very Good Meals served in Amtrak Diners are long gone and we won't see them again.!

But Higher Quality and Healthier Meals are the Minimum Requirements for Food and Drink served on Amtrak Trains!

 

[crescent-zephyr]

I really think the Good Old Days ( early 2000s) of Very Good Meals served in Amtrak Diners are long gone and we won't see them again.!

They are pretty much back to that quality on the western trains. The dinner entrees aren’t quite as good as the best entrees but they are really close and everything else is as good or better.

 

[user 14106]

They are pretty much back to that quality on the western trains. The dinner entrees aren’t quite as good as the best entrees but they are really close and everything else is as good or better.

I didn’t have it in early 2000s but I also found what they’re serving out west way better than what I had in 2017-2018.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

I didn’t have it in early 2000s but I also found what they’re serving out west way better than what I had in 2017-2018.

There were a few dinner entrees in like 2007 era that were really incredible. The Lamb Shank, Mahi Mahi, Crab Cakes, and Pasta with Beecher’s Cheese were crazy good. The Mahi Mahi and and Lamb Shank are the best meals I’ve had on any train - and they were consistently good from crew to crew.

 

[user 14106]

There were a few dinner entrees in like 2007 era that were really incredible. The Lamb Shank, Mahi Mahi, Crab Cakes, and Pasta with Beecher’s Cheese were crazy good. The Mahi Mahi and and Lamb Shank are the best meals I’ve had on any train - and they were consistently good from crew to crew.

That does sound good - sadly wasn’t yet riding Amtrak at that point was still driving everywhere.

 

[zephyr17]

There were a few dinner entrees in like 2007 era that were really incredible. The Lamb Shank, Mahi Mahi, Crab Cakes, and Pasta with Beecher’s Cheese were crazy good. The Mahi Mahi and and Lamb Shank are the best meals I’ve had on any train - and they were consistently good from crew to crew.

That Lamb Shank was wonderful.

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

Sorry to be griping so much today but Flexible Dining today was not good:

1. The side salad was a small bowl of lettuce. There was one cherry tomato in it. Nothing else.

2. The vegetarian enchiladas were fine, on par with Amy’s frozen ones (Whole Foods, Target, etc. sell them).

3. The really good cheesecake thing was gone, back to a room temperature brownie in sealed wrap.

From what I have heard, the enchiladas are Amy's. And I agree they are quite good, especially the 2 pack cheese ones.

 

[Bob Dylan]

From what I have heard, the enchiladas are Amy's. And I agree they are quite good, especially the 2 pack cheese ones.

I've tried Amy's from my local Grocery, very Good,Healthy and only $5 in the Frozen Food Section!

 

[MccfamschoolMom]

I've tried Amy's from my local Grocery, very Good,Healthy and only $5 in the Frozen Food Section!

I'll have to pick up some Amy's enchiladas from the supermarket - and look forward to trying them while dining on Amtrak!

 

[TheCrescent]

I've tried Amy's from my local Grocery, very Good,Healthy and only $5 in the Frozen Food Section!

I regularly buy them…but as a first-class dinner on Amtrak for a $500+ ticket?

 

[Bob Dylan]

I regularly buy them…but as a first-class dinner on Amtrak for a $500+ ticket?

Best as a Lunch item!

 

[MARC Rider]

I regularly buy them…but as a first-class dinner on Amtrak for a $500+ ticket?

Look, the "$500 ticket" is mostly for having a private room and a lie-flat bed with sheets, blankets and a pillow. As for the value of the "$5 enchiladas," the true cost of putting them before you on your plate is more than that. Even when you make them at home, there's the mileage cost of driving to and from the store to buy them in the first place, the cost of the electricity needed to microwave it, and the labor cost of your time driving to the store and buying the product and then heating them up in the microwave and placing on the table. All of these costs need to be loaded with your personal overhead costs, which everyone has, even if they don't realize it. So, too, in the dining car. You're paying for someone to bring edible food to you, which is always going to be a lot more than the price of an equivalent item in a supermarket case.

 

[daybeers]

Look, the "$500 ticket" is mostly for having a private room and a lie-flat bed with sheets, blankets and a pillow.

True, but have we really reached the level of forgiving Amtrak for bottom-shelf supermarket frozen food?

And they should not be $500 for one night.

 

[user 14106]

There’s also the matter of practicality. Consider the facilities in the cafe cars. You have finite storage space and work area. Thus you need items that are quick to serve when you have a line of people whether cold or heated. You also have to consider the shelf life of items. That’s why there may be items that are practical in the cafe car on regionals which may not be on an overnighter due to the trip length both due to shelf life and because you need to cover a larger trip with the food you have on an LD train (and hence more of each item). Dining cars are a totally different concept so I’m not going to go into those. I think they’ve made an honest effort here to mix up and refresh what they’re offering in the cafe. One does need to have a little bit of realism about the limitations and constraints of cafe service.

 

[zephyr17]

They did fairly well with the meals on the Lake Shore with a cafe prior to flex, after they ran low on servicable Heritage diners.

There is also no excuse for having pulled the diners off the Crescent and limiting themselves to the cafe.

Yes, cafes have fewer facilities than dining cars, but they have already shown they can pull off decent meal service in one. Still, Amtrak has no real excuse for removing dining cars the Crescent.

 

[user 14106]

They did fairly well with the meals on the Lake Shore with a cafe prior to flex, after they ran low on servicable Heritage diners.

There is also no excuse for having pulled the diners off the Crescent and limiting themselves to the cafe.

Yes, cafes have fewer facilities than dining cars, but they have already shown they can pull off decent meal service in one. Still, Amtrak has no real excuse for removing dining cars the Crescent.

Well that’s another problem too. When you have trains that you have to serve Both the flex and coach menu out of the same cafe that’s going to limit the menu you can have given you have to store all those flex meals.

 

[zephyr17]

Both the flex and coach menu out of the same cafe that’s going to limit the menu you can have given you have to store all those flex meals.

Yes, and I'd say that has an obvious solution. Put another food service car on, which they have a supply of.

That situation is entirely self-inflicted, especially on the Crescent. The fact that it is an obvious problem seems to have been convienently ignored by Amtrak's [adjective_deleted/] management.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Look, the "$500 ticket" is mostly for having a private room and a lie-flat bed with sheets, blankets and a pillow.

Says who?

Amtrak always presented their dining car experience as a unique and enjoyable feature of riding the train from the beginning to the present day. Amtrak dining is featured on the Lake Shore Limited route poster and was the last amenity to lose “First Class” designation. Amtrak has never presented Sleeper Class as subsistence travel and has featured photos of traditional dining even when no such service existed.

^ Does any part of this look like they're advertising three hots and a cot?