Amtrak dining and cafe service

[TheCrescent]

Did you board near the end of the train's run? Still,paying that kind of money and you cannot even get what you wanted...and to top it off it's flex food!

I boarded at the originating station.

Since Amtrak just prints menus from an office printer, on regular white office paper, it can’t just print the menu and have the current menu in its sleeping car rooms? It still has old menus in its rooms?

At least use resume paper from Staples, Amtrak; it’s thicker and is classier-looking than using regular office copier paper. And the thick resume paper can be printed from an office printer, too.

 

[trimetbusfan]

I boarded at the originating station.

Since Amtrak just prints menus from an office printer, on regular white office paper, it can’t just print the menu and have the current menu in its sleeping car rooms? It still has old menus in its rooms?

At least use resume paper from Staples, Amtrak; it’s thicker and is classier-looking than using regular office copier paper. And the thick resume paper can be printed from an office printer, too.

The western long distance trains with traditional dining use thick cardstock for the menus. They know how to do it right.

 

[Rasputin]

I remember traveling on the westbound Lake Shore shortly after the heritage diners were removed and replaced by a diner-lite car. When I went to the dining car for dinner out of Albany I was given a hand-printed menu on a piece of paper. It was not an impressive-looking menu.

However, the food was delicious so I had no complaints. I had been concerned that the diner-lite car meant a serious downgrading of meal service on the Lake Shore. Was I ever wrong (especially when compared to today).

 

[TheCrescent]

Sorry to be griping so much today but Flexible Dining today was not good:

1. The side salad was a small bowl of lettuce. There was one cherry tomato in it. Nothing else.

2. The vegetarian enchiladas were fine, on par with Amy’s frozen ones (Whole Foods, Target, etc. sell them).

3. The really good cheesecake thing was gone, back to a room temperature brownie in sealed wrap.

 

[PaTrainFan]

The western long distance trains with traditional dining use thick cardstock for the menus. They know how to do it right.

Doing it right was when they had first class professionally printed menus with nicely designed color cover art.

 

[Sidney]

Sorry to be griping so much today but Flexible Dining today was not good:

1. The side salad was a small bowl of lettuce. There was one cherry tomato in it. Nothing else.

2. The vegetarian enchiladas were fine, on par with Amy’s frozen ones (Whole Foods, Target, etc. sell them).

3. The really good cheesecake thing was gone, back to a room temperature brownie in sealed wrap.

Flexible "dining" today? That's every day.

 

[SteveSFL]

On the California Zephyr, is the dining car restocked in Oakland for the return trip to Chicago? Or do they leave Chicago with (ostensibly) enough food for the round trip?

 

[jis]

It is restocked in Oakland.

 

[TheCrescent]

And to add:

The Amtrak website says that breakfast is available starting at 6:30am for sleeping car passengers.

My train was delayed by 80 minutes so I arrived at 6:50am.

Breakfast was not an option. I was told that there wasn’t time.

 

[fdaley]

On the train that I’m on- and for which I paid over $500 for a roomette for an approximately 600-mile trip:

The Flexible Dining menus in the room (printed on 8 1/2”x11” copier paper) were old, and none of the lunch/dinner entrees that I had wanted were available. The menu on the Amtrak website is also old and outdated.

The items that I ordered will be just as good, but…

How many things wrong are there with that situation?

Yeah, we were given photocopied menus when we booked a room on the Lake Shore from Albany to Boston last fall. The print quality was muddy, which made it hard to read, and of course, they no longer offered some of the items listed and were out of others. Really, even when the food is edible, everything about the presentation is laughably bad.

To me, every flex meal is like a memo from Amtrak management that says: "Congress told us we have to run this train, but we don't see any future in it, so let's not waste any more money on you than we have to. We're supposed to give you meals on trips that might last 20 or 30 hours, so here it is. We figure you'll take whatever we give you, because for some reason you like to ride trains, even though, on a trip of this length, any normal person would fly. If you decide not to ride this train again, no big deal, some other train buff will probably pay $500 or even $1,000 for a room. And if they don't, at least we can go back and tell Congress what a losing proposition this train is."

 

[user 14106]

Yeah, we were given photocopied menus when we booked a room on the Lake Shore from Albany to Boston last fall. The print quality was muddy, and the page was kind of dog-eared, as though they'd been giving out the same copies for awhile. Really, even when the food is edible, everything about the presentation is laughably bad.

To me, every flex meal is like a memo from Amtrak management that says: "Congress told us we have to run this train, but we don't see any future in it, so let's not waste any more money on you than we have to. We're supposed to give you meals on trips that might last 20 or 30 hours, so here it is. We figure you'll take whatever we give you, because for some reason you like to ride trains, even though, on a trip of this length, any normal person would fly. If you decide not to ride this train again, no big deal, some other train buff will probably pay $500 or even $1,000 for a room. And if they don't, at least we can go back and tell Congress what a losing proposition this train is."

I don’t totally agree with this. While I certainly agree that flexible dining is a downgrade from traditional dining, I think the ridership and market on some of the eastern trains is a bit different than out west such that I don’t think flexible dining is killing these trains. While good meals is certainly a good touch for what we’re paying for sleepers and I certainly think they could do better (and hope they do with the end of the mica mandate) I would also concede that the dining car experience is not as crucial a part of these routes as it is out west and I don’t think whatever they plan on doing necessarily has to completely match what they’re doing out west.

While obviously all routes have a variety of riders - I think the ridership in general in the east skews more towards traveling to get there with the trains a means to get there - while on the western routes I think there’s a lot bigger proportion of riders where the train is a big part of the reason for the trip compared to the east. As such the dining car experience as an iconic part of traditional train travel is a much more important part of those scenic iconic routes. Of course there are people in both instances on all the routes (obviously the lake shore and Capitol get some ridership from connections and such) - but overall I think the ratio of riders and purpose of trip does vary between the routes. And as such I think the absence of dining car service would be much more damaging to the trains that currently have it than it is to those in the east. Obviously the Eagle’s that unlucky route they don’t seem to know what to do with but that’s probably a product of lighter ridership.

 

[tricia]

I don’t totally agree with this. While I certainly agree that flexible dining is a downgrade from traditional dining, I think the ridership and market on some of the eastern trains is a bit different than out west such that I don’t think flexible dining is killing these trains. While good meals is certainly a good touch for what we’re paying for sleepers and I certainly think they could do better (and hope they do with the end of the mica mandate) I would also concede that the dining car experience is not as crucial a part of these routes as it is out west and I don’t think whatever they plan on doing necessarily has to completely match what they’re doing out west.

While obviously all routes have a variety of riders - I think the ridership in general in the east skews more towards traveling to get there with the trains a means to get there - while on the western routes I think there’s a lot bigger proportion of riders where the train is a big part of the reason for the trip compared to the east. As such the dining car experience as an iconic part of traditional train travel is a much more important part of those scenic iconic routes. Of course there are people in both instances on all the routes (obviously the lake shore and Capitol get some ridership from connections and such) - but overall I think the ratio of riders and purpose of trip does vary between the routes. And as such I think the absence of dining car service would be much more damaging to the trains that currently have it than it is to those in the east. Obviously the Eagle’s that unlucky route they don’t seem to know what to do with but that’s probably a product of lighter ridership.

While there are many ways to provide decent food service, and different menus for eastern and western trains might be appropriate, there's no getting around the reality that for a 20-30 hour train passengers expect to be able to access decent food on the train. Not just shelf-stable snacks and crappy frozen dinners.

The quality of food currently available on the eastern trains certainly doesn't contribute to passenger health, happiness, and willingness to take the train again in the future. It could and should.

 

[Northwestern]

While there are many ways to provide decent food service, and different menus for eastern and western trains might be appropriate, there's no getting around the reality that for a 20-30 hour train passengers expect to be able to access decent food on the train. Not just shelf-stable snacks and crappy frozen dinners.

The quality of food currently available on the eastern trains certainly doesn't contribute to passenger health, happiness, and willingness to take the train again in the future. It could and should.

I quite agree, Tricia. I don't think flex meals are appropriate for any Amtrak train, especially long distance. Having to spend $600-$1000 for a roomette or bedroom, you would expect quality, hot, and freshly prepared food onboard. Most likely not a good comparison, but to me it's kind of like serving Spam at a lavish Thanksgiving dinner.

Regarding the dining car, I would like to see a few tables for just 1-2 people. I know that probably won't happen as it no doubt would require additional dining car space. However, I believe some of the newer European trains do have seating for 1-2 passengers in dining or cafe cars. One of the very few things, in recently years, that has been a very good Amtrak innovation is to allow food delivery to your sleeper. Maybe I'm just antisocial, but I always feared going to the dining car and being forced to sit with people who I would never associate with otherwise. Only a very few times did I have dinner companions who were interesting to talk to. And a few horror stories. Most of the time it was saying nothing and staring out the window.

 

[user 14106]

I don’t think

While there are many ways to provide decent food service, and different menus for eastern and western trains might be appropriate, there's no getting around the reality that for a 20-30 hour train passengers expect to be able to access decent food on the train. Not just shelf-stable snacks and crappy frozen dinners.

The quality of food currently available on the eastern trains certainly doesn't contribute to passenger health, happiness, and willingness to take the train again in the future. It could and should.

I don’t think anyone disagrees that it could be and should be better (though I also don’t think it’s as bad as many people make it out to be - a number of them were fine to me when prepared properly.) But where I disagree is that it’s killing the trains (particularly the silver service.) In my experience on the silvers people are taking the train to get there - not for the food. And they seem to survive the trip on the meals offered. I like everyone here want them to be better - and hopefully the chef postings in Florida are a sign they eventually will. But I think it’s important to recognize the differences between different routes also. I don’t think the offering needs to be as extensive as what is served out west.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

I don’t think the offering needs to be as extensive as what is served out west

I think everyone who rides a train over multiple meal periods would appreciate good quality food. I’ve never met anyone on an overnight train who said they don’t want to have good food.

 

[TheCrescent]

The lowest price in a sleeping car on Amtrak for my 600+ mile commute (every week or two weeks) is almost $450.

At that price, I think it’s reasonable to expect a decent meal, served on a plate, with a glass (really, made of glass) and silverware made of metal.

It doesn’t need to be made fresh on board, but it should be a decent meal.

What I received on the Crescent- a “salad” consisting of some lettuce in a plastic bowl and one cherry tomato; a room-temperature brownie in plastic wrap; an enchilada that was ok but served on plastic; and a roll (it was fine) fell short.

 

[jis]

Then again the complete lack of any Diner food did not kill the Silver Star either

Not it is a good or bad thing, but it is a data point. My preference personally would be to have good Diner food for half the fare.

 

[Mystic River Dragon]

And to add:

The Amtrak website says that breakfast is available starting at 6:30am for sleeping car passengers.

My train was delayed by 80 minutes so I arrived at 6:50am.

Breakfast was not an option. I was told that there wasn’t time.

When I was on the Silver Meteor many years ago, we were on time and actually scheduled to get into my stop—Winter Park, Florida —early. The LSA was coming through and taking lunch reservations and I told her I was getting off at Winter Park so would just miss lunch.

She offered to pack me a lunch to take with me.

Of course I said no—I wouldn’t have her do extra work just to save a few dollars on lunch at a restaurant.

But it certainly shows how things have changed.

 

[Sidney]

How long have we been lamenting not having real food(aka traditional dining) on the Eastern trains and the Eagle? Over 4 years since they were introduced. The quality is at best,mediocre. That's pretty much the concesus of just about everybody here.

In a nutshell,you are paying for first class service being served third class food. On an overnight train in a sleeper you are paying good money for,decent food is expected and we aren't getting it. I disagree about people using the Eastern trains for transportation and the food quality doesn't matter. To most passengers,it does. Good cooked to order food is an integral part of a long distance train ride.

Obviously,it's been three to four years since flex "dining" reared it's ugly head. As long as the current management stays in place,don't expect any changes.

 

[user 14106]

I think everyone who rides a train over multiple meal periods would appreciate good quality food. I’ve never met anyone on an overnight train who said they don’t want to have good food.

Yes no one is going to refuse a first class meal if it is put in front of them and certainly first class food would boost customer satisfaction scores. Nowhere in any of my posts here am I disputing that. But there’s a difference between that and killing the trains or implying they were put in place to kill the train. They were put in place because they figured they could get away with cutting costs on these routes and the law for a number of years told them they had to - and I think in my opinion they didn’t kill the trains (and the Eastern routes were selected for the cut) because routes in the east have some differences in the overall ridership. That isn’t to say that the routes wouldn’t be better or more successful with improved food - but they are surviving and I think still serve their markets and would continue to do so under the current regimen. The food is mediocre sure - but not everyone has traditional dining to compare to as a reference point and certainly not everyone has rail dining in its hey day to compare to. I’ve yet to dine with anyone on board the silvers or lake shore that is super bent out of shape over the flex meals.

 

[Mystic River Dragon]

I agree with many of the points in posts above—even some that disagree with each other!

I think it varies by train.

My experience with the Silvers when they had traditional dining was that yes, people wanted to get to their destination, but that they wanted a relaxing vacation-like start to it on the train.

People seemed to enjoy conversations with table mates, and on a few trips some people had dressed up for dinner.

The Cardinal had a weird menu that was in between flex stuff and traditional—but they had nice French toast. But nobody was on the Cardinal for the food—it’s a scenery run.

I haven’t been on the Cap. Ltd., and I’ve only been on the LSL between Albany and Boston—so can’t comment on those. But I do agree with other posters that the high prices should bring decent food with them on all trains.

I agree that meal delivery to rooms is definitely a good thing.

Although I used to love sitting in the dining car and talking with strangers, I think those days are over for me personally.

I’m finding it harder to go between moving cars to get to the dining car, then have that part in the doorway where there’s nothing to hold on to.

Also, I got so used to the 6 feet between people a couple of years ago that I now keep it up when I can — not for safety, more because it’s so nice to not have people crowding me and breathing down my neck—so I think I’d find it hard to sit so close to strangers again after so long.

So I think the dining car will be a lovely memory and I will ask for meals in my roomette from now on.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

Although I used to love sitting in the dining car and talking with strangers, I think those days are over for me personally.

People will call me names but I actually really like having only sleeping car and business class passengers in the diner. It cuts the chances of awkward table mates way down.

I’ve been loving my conversations with table mates on Amtrak and Alaska railroad this past month.

 

[Mystic River Dragon]

People will call me names but I actually really like having only sleeping car and business class passengers in the diner. It cuts the chances of awkward table mates way down.

I’ve been loving my conversations with table mates on Amtrak and Alaska railroad this past month.

I’ve had some lovely table mates from coach on the Silvers.

For me, the change to room delivery would be because of balance issues and feeling crowded sitting next to anyone. And mostly it’s the balance issues—I’m not as good at staying upright on CSX tracks without a handhold as I used to be.

 

[trimetbusfan]

When I was on the Silver Meteor many years ago, we were on time and actually scheduled to get into my stop—Winter Park, Florida —early. The LSA was coming through and taking lunch reservations and I told her I was getting off at Winter Park so would just miss lunch.

She offered to pack me a lunch to take with me.

Of course I said no—I wouldn’t have her do extra work just to save a few dollars on lunch at a restaurant.

But it certainly shows how things have changed.

Think it depends on the train, the LSA (if applicable), and how many people are onboard.

The crecent has upwards of 50 sleeper people that need to be served. Those meals have to be cooked by the cafe attendant. When I rode (sat in the cafe for quite a while) the staff seemed quite overwhelmed.

Then I rode the northbound starlight not too long ago and got off in Portland. We arrived around 6p. Technically dining car opens at 5 or 5:30, so I would have been eligible for a meal, but when the LSA made announcements for doing dinner car reservations she said ‘people leaving is in Portland will not get dinner.’ I understood because there are lots of people getting off in Portland. They probably wouldn’t have the time to service everyone that wanted a meal. (But was it disappointing, yes, of course).

 

[MARC Rider]

Yes no one is going to refuse a first class meal if it is put in front of them and certainly first class food would boost customer satisfaction scores. Nowhere in any of my posts here am I disputing that. But there’s a difference between that and killing the trains or implying they were put in place to kill the train. They were put in place because they figured they could get away with cutting costs on these routes and the law for a number of years told them they had to - and I think in my opinion they didn’t kill the trains (and the Eastern routes were selected for the cut) because routes in the east have some differences in the overall ridership. That isn’t to say that the routes wouldn’t be better or more successful with improved food - but they are surviving and I think still serve their markets and would continue to do so under the current regimen. The food is mediocre sure - but not everyone has traditional dining to compare to as a reference point and certainly not everyone has rail dining in its hey day to compare to. I’ve yet to dine with anyone on board the silvers or lake shore that is super bent out of shape over the flex meals.

This is true, and I think it should be pointed out that long-distance passenger rail is not the only line of business where service standards and quality have deteriorated. The most obvious parallel is with the airlines. Back in the dinosaur days of regulated airlines, we all used to complain about the meals served in domestic coach. Now, lack of food service is a given, yet no one is going to say that such outfits as Southwest Airlines, Spirit, etc. were doing this to "kill airline service." And even on the longer international flights, where meals are still served in coach, those meals (at least on some major American Airlines that shall not be named which begins with a "U") are so horrible they make flex food look good. Does that mean that particular airline is trying to "kill" international flights?

(By the way, back in the 1970s when I would fly to college, I made it a point to book flights where meals were served. This is partly because even though we complained about the food, it really wasn't that bad, but also partly because if I wasn't fed on the flight, I'd have to find something to eat at the airport, and the only thing worse than 1970s airline food was 1970s airport food!)