Amtrak goes straight to STB to restore Gulf Coast service.

[toddinde]

What, no comments? Did I really say everything there is to be said about this?

Has Amtrak ever before gone to the STB (or before that the ICC) to demand its right to be hosted?

Yes, many times. You can search the decisions on-line. Two examples are the Downeaster and Vermont service where Amtrak actually used eminent domain to condemn a Guilford line.

 

[toddinde]

Never is a very very long time. It is not clear that CSX will eventually remain in Florida at all. So we'll see, won't we? They have already been trying to get rid of the Auburndale to West Palm Beach segment. Port of Tampa is still somewhat attractive for them, but given how aggressively they are shrinking their route structure to about half a dozen chosen high density routes who knows? Tampa traffic is already barely at the tipping point for them.

Yes, never is a long time. What the never gonna happen crowd is missing is the paradigm shift in the country and the necessity of rail for climate change. It will almost surely come to pass that many countries will impose tariffs on countries that don’t meet climate goals. Rail is a big part of a future that addresses climate change.

 

[DonNewcomb]

Rail is a big part of a future that addresses climate change.

The mass of the vehicle per passenger, when powered by burning diesel, must be immense. More than a passenger car.

 

[George Harris]

The mass of the vehicle per passenger, when powered by burning diesel, must be immense. More than a passenger car.

However, the rolling resistance is much less. That makes the difference.

 

[MARC Rider]

The mass of the vehicle per passenger, when powered by burning diesel, must be immense. More than a passenger car.

However, the rolling resistance is much less. That makes the difference.

Not just the rolling resistance. There's a lot less aerodynamic drag on a train with, say, 10 coaches holding 75 passengers each that trails a single locomotive that's punching through the air, as compared to 750 cars, OK, 682 cars, as the average passenger car occupancy is supposedly 1.1.

I believe diesel trains can get as much as 1 mpg. With 750 passengers, that's 750 passenger miles per gallon. My car can get 120 passenger miles per gallon, but that's only if all 4 seats are occupied. Which rarely happens.

 

[DSS&A]

The PTJ article states that the STB stated it would asign an administrative judge to resolve all ossues before the end of this year.

https://passengertrainjournal.com/g...rvice-one-step-closer-following-stb-decision/

 

[toddinde]

The mass of the vehicle per passenger, when powered by burning diesel, must be immense. More than a passenger car.

The train is by far and away more fuel efficient and less polluting than an ICE automobile.

 

[GoAmtrak]

https://www.sunherald.com/news/local/article252655053.html?Will Gulf Coast train passenger service start on Jan. 1? Amtrak asks feds to hurry

I'm surprised in a positive way how quick that seems to go, compared to other passenger rail projects where track/station upgrades take years to be completed, with years of delay. Is it really realistic the Sunset Limited goes from New Orleans to Mississippi or even to Mobile apart from 2022?

Amtrak looks quite confident in this case. Why they can't look that confident regarding other potential corridors in other parts of the US (like the Cleveland-Cincinnati line)?

By the way, the Alabama State Port Authority doesn't want any passenger railway on the line. Hopefully they will be silenced. Amtrak man Magliari said the following: “As for the Port, we previously filed about two weeks ago their need to establish themselves as a party to the action.” Alabama State Port Authority: Amtrak’s return ‘would be calamitous’

 

[IndyLions]

I'm surprised in a positive way how quick that seems to go, compared to other passenger rail projects where track/station upgrades take years to be completed, with years of delay. Is it really realistic the Sunset Limited goes from New Orleans to Mississippi or even to Mobile apart from 2022?

While I see New Orleans to Mobile happening relatively soon, I don’t see the Sunset Limited (ever) extending east of New Orleans. I think Amtrak will be focusing their energies on the routes included in their ConnectUs plan.

In the next 5 years, the only LD expansion I envision is a daily Cardinal - which requires new equipment and a significant staff buildup before even that can happen.

 

[Hytec]

The following was reported by local TV yesterday.

- Amtrak confirmed it is hiring crews for the startup of New Orleans/Mobile service. Several of the crews have already been hired.

- Amtrak has taken over responsibility for improving the four stops in Mississippi, Bay St. Louis, Gulfport, Biloxi, and Pascagoula, by preparing to take bids from contractors to build, or improve platforms. Originally each city was to be responsible for the improvements.

- The STB will hold a hearing in February to determine if the plans to launch service can move forward.

This news is encouraging. Though progress remains painfully slow.

 

[GoAmtrak]

The following was reported by local TV yesterday.

- Amtrak confirmed it is hiring crews for the startup of New Orleans/Mobile service. Several of the crews have already been hired.

- Amtrak has taken over responsibility for improving the four stops in Mississippi, Bay St. Louis, Gulfport, Biloxi, and Pascagoula, by preparing to take bids from contractors to build, or improve platforms. Originally each city was to be responsible for the improvements.

- The STB will hold a hearing in February to determine if the plans to launch service can move forward.

This news is encouraging. Though progress remains painfully slow.

I regularely look at Google News if there are any news about developments concerning expansion. I didn't find anything recently. But this sounds encouraging. Compared to other future Amtrak routes, we seem to have come quite far


Is Amtrak able to move forward faster in that matter because funding is secured? Or because they are working on it for a long time? Or because there is little doubt Amtrak is allowed to use the line again as it was stopped by a natural disaster, and not by stupid politicians?

 

[user 14106]

While I see New Orleans to Mobile happening relatively soon, I don’t see the Sunset Limited (ever) extending east of New Orleans. I think Amtrak will be focusing their energies on the routes included in their ConnectUs plan.

In the next 5 years, the only LD expansion I envision is a daily Cardinal - which requires new equipment and a significant staff buildup before even that can happen.

possible daily sunset too (only current portion.)

 

[Bob Dylan]

possible daily sunset too (only current portion.)

A Daily Texas Eagle from Chicago to LA has been on the agenda for years.

Perhaps UP won't ask for Billions like they did before, now that the Sunset Route is mostly Double Tracked West of El Paso??!!!

I like the idea of running it from Ft Worth to El Paso vis the old T&P Route through West Texas, but since I live in Austin ,this would not help me()so perhaps Amtrak should run a stub Train between Ft Worth and San Antonio that would connect with a Daily Sunset and Eagle!

 

[Burns651]

I can see Amtrak's gears turning just fast enough in the next 5 years to issue a RFP and maybe bid request for additional equipment for the Cardinal, Sunset et. al. But given how it's taken since 2006 (yes!) from initial spec drafting to in-service for the Sumitomo-then-Siemens cars, I can't see how new cars will be in service within 5 years. Unless something off the shelf is ordered, but nowadays the wheel seems to be reinvented with each order.

 

[jis]

I can see Amtrak's gears turning just fast enough in the next 5 years to issue a RFP and maybe bid request for additional equipment for the Cardinal, Sunset et. al. But given how it's taken since 2006 (yes!) from initial spec drafting to in-service for the Sumitomo-then-Siemens cars, I can't see how new cars will be in service within 5 years. Unless something off the shelf is ordered, but nowadays the wheel seems to be reinvented with each order.

It is almost certain that any new single level car order will be off the shelf. As for what happens with bi-level orders, and if any are ordered at all, currently is up in the air, and unlikely to be resolved before the 2024-25 timeframe.

 

[neroden]

I can see Amtrak's gears turning just fast enough in the next 5 years to issue a RFP and maybe bid request for additional equipment for the Cardinal, Sunset et. al. But given how it's taken since 2006 (yes!) from initial spec drafting to in-service for the Sumitomo-then-Siemens cars, I can't see how new cars will be in service within 5 years. Unless something off the shelf is ordered, but nowadays the wheel seems to be reinvented with each order.

The indications are that all future orders are going to be single-levels. Most will be off-the-shelf.

There may have to be some modifications for new sleeper and observation cars, but they certainly aren't going to be new carshell designs. Worst case is that someone has to be hired to build more Viewliner shells, which is possible despite CAF's difficulties. Best case is an off-the-shelf European sleeper which is already in mass production (depending on what's going on with the large sleeper car orders from Austrian Railways, which is defining the specs).

 

[neroden]

I think the reason for the choice of this line as the test case is the sheer dishonesty and obstreperousness of CSX in making utterly bogus excuses to obstruct service, and the extremely well documented paper trail.

In other cases, the Class Is might have semi-legitimate complaints which would require actual money to address. This is the case where Amtrak can demonstrate to the STB that the Class Is are just being lawbreaking jerks. From a legal perspective, that's why you choose it as a test case.

It's also why CSX's hysterical sky-is-falling response is particularly stupid, legally speaking; CSX is giving Amtrak exactly what it needs and wants for its legal strategy before the STB.

 

[Metra Electric Rider]

I do hope that this happens sooner rather than later - and of course, is a success.

My two cents worth is that once Siemens was decided on, the process and overall order moved fairly quickly even with the water supply snafu's.

 

[MARC Rider]

Looks like DOT has weighed in on this topic. And apparently in a good way, from our perspective.

Rail Passengers Association | Washington, DC - DOT to STB: Order Gulf Coast Service Restored

https://dcms-external.s3.amazonaws.com/DCMS_External_PROD/1643047058751/51097.pdf

 

[Amtrak709]

I have been a little out of the loop in staying current with the Gulf Coast issue. I assume the focus is NOL-MOB. Restoration on to JAX is still just a pipe dream??????right????

 

[jis]

I have been a little out of the loop in staying current with the Gulf Coast issue. I assume the focus is NOL-MOB. Restoration on to JAX is still just a pipe dream??????right????

Pretty much, at least for the time being. Ridership projections on MOB - JAX is just abysmal when compared to many other corridors within Florida that would be candidates for funding. Even Brightline which is committed to connect up Florida would not go anywhere near it.

 

[Amtrak709]

Thanks, jis, for the reply. Still fond memories of that day in April 1993 when service was restored NOL-JAX-MIA after years dormant. Also, the recent discussion of the Sunset Ltd accident in September 1993 in the AU forum has also prompted me to get better updated regarding this issue. Thanks again!

 

[Tlcooper44]

https://www.trains.com/trn/news-rev...regarding-proposed-amtrak-gulf-coast-service/
Another amusing release from CSX today.

 

[west point]

Someone posted elsewhere that what would happen to any shipper who did not send a letter. Rank intimation!

 

[neroden]

Pretty much, at least for the time being. Ridership projections on MOB - JAX is just abysmal when compared to many other corridors within Florida that would be candidates for funding. Even Brightline which is committed to connect up Florida would not go anywhere near it.

In addition to what Jis says (which is correct), the tracks for MOB - JAX are in bad shape -- and even before everything, they've always had one really nasty, slow, indirect section from Mobile to Pensacola. Whereas the tracks from NOL to MOB are in fine shape and ready to run passenger trains on, despite the lies of CSX.