Amtrak Management issues

[Rasputin]

While having top management ride the long distance trains to reach important meetings may sound to some like a good idea, I wonder if that would really would be a good use of their valuable time, on a regular basis.

I believe that top exec’s can find out what is really going on in the “field”, without actually being there, and as I’ve said before, what they might see on such trips, may not always be the “reality”…

If Amtrak executives have found out what is going on in the field and have not and are not doing anything about it, then shame on them. I am not sure what they have been doing with their time but the results do not seem to be impressive.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Amtrak Suits don't have to spend several days riding LD Trains to expierience what's happening out on the Rails.

But they DO need to spend @ least 1 Night in a Revenue Sleeper ( Unannounced and not riding around in Beech Grove with a hand picked Crew with other Execs)and eat in a Diner that serves Flex Meals, and doesn't have a Lounge Car.

The Texas Eaglette meets this Criteria, let them ride say Chicago to Ft Worth,which gives them 3 Meals and a Night in a Room.

Does anyone know for sure if the Big Dogs in DC have actually ever done this?

 

[zephyr17]

If Amtrak executives have found out what is going on in the field and have not and are not doing anything about it, then shame on them. I am not sure what they have been doing with their time but the results do not seem to be impressive.

What have they been doing?

Fantasizing about their "We can make Northeast Corridor like airline!" fetish. While either ignoring basic blocking and tackling of a service company and congratulating themselves by saving money on maintenance by not doing basic maintenance and inspections to keep the long distance fleet in service. They love the cost savings, because that is apparently the only thing the variable part of their compensation is based on. The fact that passengers paying exorbitant fares for sleeping car accommodations have gotten kicked out of them and trains have gone out without without lounge cars or even any food service cars at all appears to have made no impression at all. They saved money, to hell with customer experience, brand reputation, and revenue.

Using COVID as an excuse has grown very, very thin. Anyone can see the rank incompetence through it.

Fire the Board.

Fire Coscia.

Fire Gartner.

Fire Flynn.

 

[user 14106]

Since they pretty much do not ride long distance trains at all, my guess that would be a "no".

The only long distance trip I know of with the current highest levels of management was on the Silver service sometime last year. I know because a railfan caught American View at one of the Florida stops literally with Stephen Gardner waving out the back of it and it was posted on one of the Facebook groups. Problem with those kind of trips though are that the red carpet is rolled out and the execs don’t see what the passengers see. They hung out with American view and had a dedicated sleeper for the execs.

 

[zephyr17]

The only long distance trip I know of with the current highest levels of management was on the Silver service sometime last year. I know because a railfan caught American View at one of the Florida stops literally with Stephen Gardner waving out the back of it and it was posted on one of the Facebook groups. Problem with those kind of trips though are that the red carpet is rolled out and the execs don’t see what the passengers see. They hung out with American view and had a dedicated sleeper for the execs.

That boils down to "they did not ride any LD service". Riding a business car that gets hauled along behind an LD train does not count.

The wave deserved to be returned with the finger...

 

[user 14106]

That boils down to "they did not ride any LD service". Riding a business car that gets hauled along behind an LD train does not count.

I don’t disagree.

 

[joelkfla]

They hung out with American view and had a dedicated sleeper for the execs.

And a private chef, by reports.

 

[Bob Dylan]

And a private chef, by reports.

Along with handpicked OBS and T&E Crew!

 

[user 14106]

I don’t disagree.

Though I don’t know I’d do the finger thing. but I don’t I disagree on office car trips not really counting. I’m not even really sure you necessarily need the CEO - at least get the VPs and execs running the actual long distance service line out there.

 

[user 14106]

I’m not even really sure you necessarily need the CEO - at least get the VPs and execs running the actual long distance service line out there.

These days I doubt Gardner is really doing much as far as the day to day management. I think his purpose and the reason he is where he is is mainly the politics, external and government relations, meeting with governors to try to sell them on Amtrak service, stuff like that. Obviously as CEO he is the final say on big decision making but I think he’s leaving most of that to Harris and the VPs. I don’t think the problem I mentioned really comes down to one person or another I think it’s more a fundamental culture problem and disconnect. Obviously it’s easier to say “fire <> that will fix it” but unfortunately I think it’s more complex than that.

 

[west point]

The pressure is coming from the management edict. Save money in your division or else. Save money does not mean get more revenue ( say 30% ) if costs are going up ( 10%). Lets make a probable example. My section has X amount of costs and Y amount of revenue. that give me a X/Y operating ratio. Now my operating costs and operating revenue increase both about ~Z dollars. So now I have X+Z / Y+Z = new operating ratio that is unfavorable to the first. Am I going to last? Not likely! So, it goes up the management chain.

That g--sh awful OR comes up in this type of cost accounting.

 

[zephyr17]

Obviously it’s easier to say “fire <> that will fix it” but unfortunately I think it’s more complex than that.

I don't think it'll fix it, but it would be a damn good start.

The right priorities have to come from the Board and the right executive compensation incentives have to be crafted and implemented. Emphasis on customer satisfaction with accurate metrics would be a good start. Cleaning out (firing) the executive management responsible for the current chaotic dysfunction and invested in the existing irresponsible culture would be a necessary first step. Actions ought to have consequences.

 

[zephyr17]

Though I don’t know I’d do the finger thing.

I would.

 

[user 14106]

I would.

I figured as much myself.

 

[JWM]

If Amtrak management was as good as addressing problems as they are at making excuses, we'd be much better off. Clean trains (including windows), full "traditional"dining service on ALL overnight trains, opening up the Superliner dining cars to coach passengers for a fee (they seat 80, as I recall) and, most of all, giving the customers what they want and need.

 

[MARC Rider]

If Amtrak management was as good as addressing problems as they are at making excuses, we'd be much better off. Clean trains (including windows), full "traditional"dining service on ALL overnight trains, opening up the Superliner dining cars to coach passengers for a fee (they seat 80, as I recall) and, most of all, giving the customers what they want and need.

It seems that even with the downgraded level of on-board service and shortened consists, they seem to be selling out the trains at very high fares. That might mean that the revenue they're earning may be as good or better than when they were running longer trains with more costly on-board service. I would think that their main management goal is to operate the legally required service while minimizing the amount of operating subsidy needed, which means that.

Other transportation providers have found it profitable to downgrade on-board service. Sometimes (but not always) they can charge cheaper fares in exchange, but so far, passengers seem to be continuing to ride on Amtrak despite the service downgrades.

As far as management, I think the first thing they need to do is make sure the trains run reliably on schedule. All the on-board service in the world is useless if trains are really late, other trains are cancelled (because the equipment need is really late), and so forth. At this point, the Amtrak long-distance service is not useful as a reliable form of transportation, and it's not because they're serving flex food or the crews are "rude" to the passengers or there's no lounge car.

They need to work on equipment maintenance so that cars aren't bad ordered or toilets malfunction in the middle of trip. They also need to manage crew so that if there are delays, they aren't further exacerbated by lack for fresh crew. In short, they need to work so that all delays are due to freight interference or "acts of God," like weather or some ***** driver trying to beat the train to a crossing and losing.

 

[amtrakpass]

On another forum recently a former amtrak manager had reported that second and third shifts on the RIP(car repair) tracks had been shutdown in Chicago and the employees that would work those jobs are doing other more light daily things with fewer heavy repairs being done since there is only one shift working the RIP. Rightly or wrongly the former manager believed it had been done due to the cost cutting bonus incentive of senior management.
I would say it does highlight a basic assumption of many advocates or interested passengers that may not always be the case. That is the assumption that if senior management knew what was actually going on they would want to do things better and provide more and better service.
In most business cases in my experience senior management is aware of what is going on even if they don't know every last detail. They just may be prioritizing their own personal career success over the core mission of the company

 

[user 14106]

. Rightly or wrongly the former manager believed it had been done due to the cost cutting bonus incentive of senior management.

People are expending far too much intellectual oxygen over the bonuses and I think it’s a distraction from the issues. Amtrak’s management compensation is well below industry average and they were encouraged by external organizations auditing their business practices including their own IG to offer these types of programs to try to retain people. One can say any action of any executive of just about any major firm is to prop up their bonus because basically everyone offers them (and equivalent private sector entities such as the airlines and the class 1 railroads offer far more lucrative bonuses than those made by Amtrak and Amtrak’s total compensation is rather paltry by comparison.) I can certainly see why many don’t like the optic given it’s sort of a public sector construct but it’s far from unprecedented. But when one compares total compensation one could almost argue Amtrak isn’t competitive enough in attracting talent at all levels. A bonus is really just conditional compensation - the alternative is that one’s whole compensation package is guaranteed.

 

[jis]

Of course the senior management did their best to meet the metrics that were handed to them by the Board as the primary controlling body and representative of the owners of Amtrak. I would if I was a senior manager since that is what was expected of me as indicated by the metrics. The fact that they got the bonuses suggest that they met the goals set for them by the Board. No senior manager gets to vote on bonuses. That is done by the rest of the Board.

I really cannot fathom why there is this implicit assumption that the Board is all in favor of great LD service in spite of every evidence suggesting that they are at best in favor of continuing status quo and doing the needful for that, and nothing more. That is the reason I suspect that Congress chose to give control of the LD exercise to the FRA and not to the Amtrak Board.

 

[amtrakpass]

My point is not the bonus. It is that in my view Amtrak senior management is aware of the detrimental impact of their decisions on a broad range of Amtrak services but still continues on their own path. Whether the motive is financial or intelectual is up for debate. I personally think it is mainly the latter. That the current leadership does not think most of Amtrak service outside of a few corridors is relevant and in spite of congress and public wishes they continue to make it less and less relevant by their actions even if their words say otherwise.

 

[jis]

My point is not the bonus. It is that in my view Amtrak senior management is aware of the detrimental impact of their decisions on a broad range of Amtrak services but still continues on their own path. Whether the motive is financial or intelectual is up for debate. I personally think it is mainly the latter. That the current leadership does not think most of Amtrak service outside of a few corridors is relevant and in spite of congress and public wishes they continue to make it less and less relevant by their actions even if their words say otherwise.

Why would they not be aware of the detrimental effects when it is part of a planned set of actions to meet metrics and goals given to them? I still don't understand why the Board gets a free pass in this incisive analysis. The Management would not last a day if the Board did not want it this way. And most of them just got renominated. So what does it say about our elected representatives? Then again it is Congress that again failed to appropriate the full authorized amount for operations. Why do they get a pass in your analysis? For this reason I believe your analysis to be hopelessly flawed for being unable to see the forest for too much focus on a tree or two, though it by chance arrives at the right conclusion as it applies to the executives..

 

[TransitTyrant]

It starts and end with congress. Until we get a consistent congress that isn’t obsessed with a profitable Amtrak this will be the continued result.

 

[AmtrakFlyer]

It starts and end with congress. Until we get a consistent congress that isn’t obsessed with a profitable Amtrak this will be the continued result.

This past congress was the most favorable in Amtraks history. Profitability parameters were removed in some cases. Unfortunately it came at a time with arguably Amtraks worse management and board in charge.

 

[TransitTyrant]

This past congress was the most favorable in Amtraks history. Profitability parameters were removed in some cases. Unfortunately it came at a time with arguably Amtraks worse management and board in charge.

Yes and that was last congress, Troy Nehls of Texas recently compared Amtrak to the Post Office in that it keeps losing money. He now leads the House subcommittee on Railroads, Pipelines, and Hazardous material.

 

[user 14106]

And most of them just got renominated. So what does it say about our elected representatives? Then again it is Congress that again failed to appropriate the full authorized amount for operations. Why do they get a pass in your analysis?

This pretty much sums it up. If management is doing what the board has set as its performance targets, the board is getting renominated, and crickets from congress (along with importantly not providing the funds requested by Amtrak/authorized) how are us advocates on AU saying “fire <>” really going to amount to any kind of movement? As I said the best thing we can do is stick to the issues and try to raise awareness and call attention to Amtrak problems and shenanigans to policy makers whenever possible and hope they listen and ask the same questions. I really don’t know how one cannot blame our politics and congress critters for a substantial portion of the disfunction especially when it was them that mandated Mica, them that mandated “run like a business” (when it’s not a business) the list goes on.. we can all hate Anderson for flexible dining but it remains the fact that our lawmakers put in the mica amendment that justified it.. Us as Americans own a lot of our societal disfunction with the polarization, nasty politics, etc.