Amtrak Management issues

[Rasputin]

This is the same outfit that, as I understand, contended that they could not re-instate traditional dining on trains for months because they were unable to find people to take OBS jobs. Perhaps if they spread some bonuses among the rank and file it would help.

 

[TransitTyrant]

This is the same outfit that, as I understand, contended that they could not re-instate traditional dining on trains for months because they were unable to find people to take OBS jobs. Perhaps if they spread some bonuses among the rank and file it would help.

Amtrak offered extremely generous signing bonuses to attract employees or to get employees to relocate where they were needed. Maybe you were unaware but the labor market was extremely tight coming out of Covid.

 

[Rasputin]

Amtrak offered extremely generous signing bonuses to attract employees or to get employees to relocate where they were needed. Maybe you were unaware but the labor market was extremely tight coming out of Covid.

I have been well aware of the tight labor market. I was not aware that Amtrak was offering extremely generous signing bonuses and I don't recall that it has been discussed on this list or any other list that I read. Thanks for pointing that out. Just how generous were these signing bonuses?

 

[Acela150]

I have been well aware of the tight labor market. I was not aware that Amtrak was offering extremely generous signing bonuses and I don't recall that it has been discussed on this list or any other list that I read. Thanks for pointing that out. Just how generous were these signing bonuses?

10k-25k, which had the rank and file upset.

 

[lrh442]

If, as the NY Times article states, part of management's incentive bonus is reducing operating losses, then the anger towards management is at least partially misplaced. They are doing what the Board is directing/incenting them to do, no? Is the Board incenting management to have clean windows and traditional dining, or are they incented to reduce operating losses?

We need a full accounting from the Board on the metrics of the incentive plans. Until then, we are just a bunch of monkeys banging away on our keyboards without really understanding the root cause of the issues. My bet is that this is a Board problem as much as it is an execution (management) problem.

 

[PaTrainFan]

Interestingly the NYT articles states: "Customer satisfaction continues to be a challenge for the service, as it just barely missed hitting the milestone it had set. No bonuses tied to customer satisfaction were given, Ms. Leeds said."

Also, I found it laughable in the House subcommittee hearing yesterday one congressman looked very, very bad trying to trap Coscia into disclosing what he received in bonuses. Of course, as Board chair, he receives none, or any compensation. "You don't?" he responded, and quickly yielded back his remaining time. Well prepared,

Edited to include more context on customer satisfaction.

 

[MARC Rider]

If, as the NY Times article states, part of management's incentive bonus is reducing operating losses, then the anger towards management is at least partially misplaced. They are doing what the Board is directing/incenting them to do, no? Is the Board incenting management to have clean windows and traditional dining, or are they incented to reduce operating losses?

We need a full accounting from the Board on the metrics of the incentive plans. Until then, we are just a bunch of monkeys banging away on our keyboards without really understanding the root cause of the issues. My bet is that this is a Board problem as much as it is an execution (management) problem.

And maybe reducing operating losses is more important to the Board and its political paymasters than having clean windows and traditional dining.

 

[MARC Rider]

Interestingly the NYT articles states: "Customer satisfaction continues to be a challenge for the service, as it just barely missed hitting the milestone it had set. No bonuses tied to customer satisfaction were given, Ms. Leeds said."

Also, I found it laughable in the House subcommittee hearing yesterday one congressman looked very, very bad trying to trap Coscia into disclosing what he received in bonuses. Of course, as Board chair, he receives none, or any compensation. "You don't?" he responded, and quickly yielded back his remaining time. Well prepared,

Edited to include more context on customer satisfaction.

And as an Amtrak customer, my satisfaction is based more on having trains running safely and reliably on time on convenient schedules than on having clean windows or traditional dining. I mean, I like having clean windows and traditional dining, but the lack of such things dings my customer satisfaction less than late, dirty on the inside trains that are always breaking down where my arrival time (or even arrival date) is an unknown mystery when I start my trip.

 

[PaTrainFan]

And as an Amtrak customer, my satisfaction is based more on having trains running safely and reliably on time on convenient schedules than on having clean windows or traditional dining. I mean, I like having clean windows and traditional dining, but the lack of such things dings my customer satisfaction less than late, dirty on the inside trains that are always breaking down where my arrival time (or even arrival date) is an unknown mystery when I start my trip.

...and how the company responds to major travel disruptions.

 

[MARC Rider]

...and how the company responds to major travel disruptions.

That, too.

 

[lordsigma]

The bonuses have three criteria - improving operating income and reducing the operating loss, reducing Amtrak at fault delays, and improving customer satisfaction. They supposedly met this year's goal for the first two but not the third according to the article.

 

[zephyr17]

The bonuses have three criteria - improving operating income and reducing the operating loss, reducing Amtrak at fault delays, and improving customer satisfaction. They supposedly met this year's goal for the first two but not the third according to the article.

Big surprise there.

 

[lordsigma]

From an oufit who can't maintain new locomotives

The available evidence does not back up the assertion that the Charger issues are the fault of Amtrak maintenance. In fact the evidence points to it being Siemens at fault issues. Yes the passengers don't care who is truly at fault - it's just an Amtrak delay, but if you're talking about firing people over the locomotives and solving the problems the facts on that do matter.

 

[lrh442]

The bonuses have three criteria - improving operating income and reducing the operating loss, reducing Amtrak at fault delays, and improving customer satisfaction.

I thought that Congress explicitly removed the expectation that Amtrak would operate without subsidy, pivoting instead to the goal of maximizing service provided within the budgeted constraints?

I suspect that the incentives may be poorly designed, to put it mildly. For example:

Operating income is a function of rate x volume. Gardner can goose the rate through yield management (and he's doing it well based on sleeper fares). But, if he increases volume (capacity) it will necessarily increase expenses (keeping in mind that we are selling a product that inherently requires subsidy). Thus he would be incented to increase fares but not increase capacity. And that supposition sure seems to fit what we are seeing in real life.

The three criteria of 1) improving operating income and reducing the operating loss, 2) reducing Amtrak at fault delays, and 3) improving customer satisfaction, do not incentivize growth or service expansion. To the contrary, they incent a smaller system operating fewer trains, serving fewer passengers (but keeping them satisfied and on-time).

I would prefer to see:
- Increase customer satisfaction
- Reduce Amtrak-caused delays
- Maximize service provided to the public within budgeted resources

 

[lordsigma]

Any company is going to have increasing operating income as a goal, even if it doesn’t have to break even by law.

 

[zephyr17]

Any company is going to have increasing operating income as a goal, even if it doesn’t have to break even by law.

But for an organization whose Congressional charter now specifically calls out that it should be operated as a public service, one would think these are more logical objectives:

I would prefer to see:
- Increase customer satisfaction
- Reduce Amtrak-caused delays
- Maximize service provided to the public within budgeted resources

Point three would cover increasing operating income, where practicable, very nicely without distorting the basic mission to operate as a public service.

 

[lordsigma]

But for an organization whose Congressional charter now specifically calls out that it should be operated as a public service, one would think these are more logical objectives:

I don’t disagree but increasing revenues and improving customer satisfaction kind of go hand and hand. Amtrak actually did increase customer satisfaction this year but they missed the yearly goal by a percentage point I believe they said - and so bonuses under that category were not awarded.

 

[TransitTyrant]

You call Gardner, Harris, and Chestler "top talent" ?
Amtrak is not Bank of America or JPM Chase.

From an oufit who can't maintain new locomotives, can't wash its trains, can't staff its crew bases adequately, can't outshop Viewliners and Superliners, can't reinstate Amtrak Express, can't print timetables, can't maintain delay announcements on Twitter.

The new locomotives exceeded the P42s this past year in reliability, reaching an average of 30,000 miles between failures. Amtrak already began using outside contractors to complete the Superliner refresh. Timetables are available online, printed timetables are being abandoned all over the world, get with the times.

 

[TransitTyrant]

The available evidence does not back up the assertion that the Charger issues are the fault of Amtrak maintenance. In fact the evidence points to it being Siemens at fault issues. Yes the passengers don't care who is truly at fault - it's just an Amtrak delay, but if you're talking about firing people over the locomotives and solving the problems the facts on that do matter.

The Amtrak owned Chargers reliability increased significantly from 2022-23, the state owned locomotives are a different case but Amtrak is the only one trying to fix their issues. Siemens is being a bit stubborn especially in refusing to allow Amtrak to modify the locomotives start engine, stop engine software.

 

[Amtrak25]

Gee, just past P42's that are 25 years old with 3 million miles on them. 30,000 MDBF is not very impressive. The Corridor ones are junk. Passengers don't care why, including me.

There are far more Superliners laying around with minor wreck damage that can be repaired. They have been doing nothing.

No, pdf timetables are not available on line. You get stops for a specfic train by pretending to make a reservation with no idea where the train came from and with unneccessary internet inquiries. You don't even get that where there is no Wifi and no cellphone signal. That is a time card, not a timetable, which means a comprehensive view of rows and columns, with connections of all trains on the route, with amenities shown for each train and for each station, which all commuter railroads manage to do. There is no way to tell that your DC - NYP train came from Virginia, and more likely to be late or that the Lake Shore Ltd has Boston section, the only food service avilable to coach passengers. Amtrak is not an airline, nor is VIA Rail. There is nothing "getting with the times" by managerial laziness and witholding information like a bus company, many of whom are failing.

 

[lordsigma]

There are far more Superliners laying around with minor wreck damage that can be repaired. They have been doing nothing.

There are wreck repairs being done. They have been far from doing nothing.

 

[TransitTyrant]

Gee, just past P42's that are 25 years old with 3 million miles on them. 30,000 MDBF is not very impressive. The Corridor ones are junk. Passengers don't care why, including me.

There are far more Superliners laying around with minor wreck damage that can be repaired. They have been doing nothing.

No, pdf timetables are not available on line. You get stops for a specfic train by pretending to make a reservation with no idea where the train came from and with unneccessary internet inquiries. You don't even get that where there is no Wifi and no cellphone signal. That is a time card, not a timetable, which means a comprehensive view of rows and columns, with connections of all trains on the route, with amenities shown for each train and for each station, which all commuter railroads manage to do. There is no way to tell that your DC - NYP train came from Virginia, and more likely to be late or that the Lake Shore Ltd has Boston section, the only food service avilable to coach passengers. Amtrak is not an airline, nor is VIA Rail. There is nothing "getting with the times" by managerial laziness and witholding information like a bus company, many of whom are failing.

The point was to show that reliability improved significantly in just one years time, but of course that’s not good enough for you. The fact you said you don’t care despite having more knowledge than the average rider proves you’re unreasonable.

You have insider knowledge about those supposed Superliners and their legal status? I’d like to see that.

Amtrak is doing exactly what SNCF is doing in regards to timetables. SNCF is not an airline, it’s well run railroad that Amtrak should emulate. It doesn’t matter where your train originates, you’re just being unreasonable.

 

[Amtrak25]

There is nothing "unreasonable" about beheaving like an average rider.

That's right, 30,000 MDBF is not good enough. That means every 7 round trips to the west coast and back, they break down. Seven years of putting up with Siemens Corridor junk is more than enough. We run trains for Americans, not foamers, or they should not get a public subsidy.

Yes it does matter where the train originates, and gave multiple reason as to why they should produce timetables - like every other passenger railroad in this continent. Should one take a train from Galesburg that originates in Quincy or Emeryville or LA , and very apt to be 6 hours late ? This falls into smug management "no need to know BS". Amtrak is not a clockwork operation, no SNCF, and never will be.

Lazy, arrogant management that is not trying to emulate Japan or France - Full stop.

 

[jis]

Yes it does matter where the train originates, and gave multiple reason as to why they should produce timetables - like every other passenger railroad in this continent. Should one take a train from Galesburg that originates in Quincy or Emeryville or LA , and very apt to be 6 hours late ? This falls into smug management "no need to know BS". Amtrak is not a clockwork operation, no SNCF, and never will be.

I am not sure the average rider, as opposed to many on AU, including you, who by all measure would fall in the category of various levels of foamership. What they care about is how often the train is on time and when late, how late at both origination and destination points of their journey. Heck, given the excellent knowledge of geography among the public many probably wouldn't even know what to make of an train originating station information even if provided one.

Many airlines provide exactly that kind of information, and it is relatively easy to provide that, and would be useful. When I am traveling from St. Paul to Chicago, I am given two trains, one is on time 20% of the time with an average delay of 3 hrs, and the other is on time 95% of the time with an average delay of 15 minutes. I'd know which to choose.

And whoever said that SNCF is a clockwork operation has fallen under the spell of SNCF propaganda, not based necessarily on anything that resembles reality. . Of course they on occasions do give significant refund when hours late. But then being two hours late on a three hours schedule is quite embarrassing in some parts of the world even though they are not the perfection that the Japanese are.

 

[TransitTyrant]

There is nothing "unreasonable" about beheaving like an average rider.

That's right, 30,000 MDBF is not good enough. They means every 7 round trips to the west coast and back, they break down. Seven years of putting up with Siemens Corridor junk is more than enough. We run trains for Americans, not foamers, or they should not get a public subsidy.

Yes it does matter where the train originates, and gave multiple reason as to why they should produce timetables - like every other passenger railroad in this continent. Should one take a train from Galesburg that originates in Quincy or Emeryville or LA , and very apt to be 6 hours late ? This falls into smug management "no need to know BS". Amtrak is not a clockwork operation, no SNCF, and never will be.

Lazy, arrogant management that is not trying to emulate Japan or France - Full stop.

Foamers hate the Siemens trains, they would prefer an ancient set of Budd cars hauled by an E unit or F40.