Amtrak Siemens Charger locomotive (SC44, ALC42, ALC42E) (2015 - 1Q 2024)

[Acela150]

Yesterday I was in Perryville, MD. The afternoon MARC train had a Charger on it. I was talking with the engineer about his thoughts on the Chargers. He said they’re very nice once you get used to them.

How was the acceleration?

Did not ride. Was there railfanning.

 

[cpotisch]

Yesterday I was in Perryville, MD. The afternoon MARC train had a Charger on it. I was talking with the engineer about his thoughts on the Chargers. He said they’re very nice once you get used to them.

How was the acceleration?

Did not ride. Was there railfanning.

I think he might have been asking if that engineer mentioned the acceleration. Not if you experience it.

 

[jis]

Yesterday I was in Perryville, MD. The afternoon MARC train had a Charger on it. I was talking with the engineer about his thoughts on the Chargers. He said they’re very nice once you get used to them.

How was the acceleration?

They are reputed to be very quick loaders.

At least on the Carl Sandburg they accelerated almost like an AEM-7 was pulling the train. The Brightlines, which are grossly overpowered, accelerate like a bat out of hell. Very impressive acceleration on those, and the Brightline engines are down-rated to 4,000HP.

 

[cpotisch]

Yesterday I was in Perryville, MD. The afternoon MARC train had a Charger on it. I was talking with the engineer about his thoughts on the Chargers. He said they’re very nice once you get used to them.

How was the acceleration?

They are reputed to be very quick loaders.

At least on the Carl Sandburg they accelerated almost like an AEM-7 was pulling the train. The Brightlines, which are grossly overpowered, accelerate like a bat out of hell. Very impressive acceleration on those, and the Brightline engines are down-rated to 4,000HP.

The Brightline Chargers are downrated to 4000 but there are two of them on every train. I guess it's not particularly surprising that a four car single-level train pulled by two brand new locos with a combined 8000 horsepower is going to result in some serious pick up. I imagine that the engineers are not going to "floor it" in normal service though, right?

 

[jis]

High HP does not necessarily equal great acceleration. It is quickly available tractive effort (torque) that results in such. You can have all the HP in the world and yet be a dog of a locomotive when it comes to acceleration. The P42s are somewhat of an example of that because they are relatively slow loaders.

And yes, I did mention that the Birghtlines are overpowered, so you are merely restating what I said about power. But your statement about the relationship between power and acceleration (torque) is somewhat misleading.

 

[cpotisch]

And yes, I did mention that the Birghtlines are overpowered, so you are merely restating what I said about power. But your statement about the relationship between power and acceleration (torque) is somewhat misleading.

I know that you said that. I was primarily asking about how much power they use in normal service.

 

[jis]

They jokingly say they never go over notch four.

 

[Acela150]

They jokingly say they never go over notch four.

Bag that I’ll hit notch 8 and won’t be late. [emoji23]

 

[CSXfoamer1997]

Some of us may be wondering. I've actually wondered this. Are the Chargers just standard diesel locomotives, or are they hybrid locomotives?

 

[Acela150]

Some of us may be wondering. I've actually wondered this. Are the Chargers just standard diesel locomotives, or are they hybrid locomotives?

Why would it be a hybrid? Locomotives aren’t cars.

 

[Ryan]

Question is flawed.

Technically all “standard diesel locomotives” are series hybrids.

 

[railiner]

Wouldn't it only be a 'hybrid', if it could move under battery power alone, with the prime mover off, for short distances? At least that's how hybrid car's operate....

 

[Ryan]

While that is how hybrid cars work, that isn’t required to be considered a hybrid.

 

[cpotisch]

Some of us may be wondering. I've actually wondered this. Are the Chargers just standard diesel locomotives, or are they hybrid locomotives?

If by hybrid you mean diesel-electric (where a diesel prime mover generates electricity for the electric traction motors), then yes, it is. If you mean to say dual-mode (where the traction motors can either get electricity from the prime mover OR from an outside source such as catenary or third-rail), then no it's not.

 

[jis]

Can you provide any citation supporting that distinction?

Would it be a hybrid if the motor got power from a diesel prime mover or battery (instead of external source) for example? If not why not and how does that differ from a hybrid car?

 

[cpotisch]

Can you provide any citation supporting that distinction?

Would it be a hybrid if the motor got power from a diesel prime mover or battery (instead of external source) for example? If not why not and how does that differ from a hybrid car?

Sorry, you talking to me or Ryan?

 

[jis]

You

 

[cpotisch]

You

I see. Well I'm probably misunderstanding, but I don't think I need a citation to say that the Charger is a standard diesel-electric and (currently) not a dual-mode.

 

[railiner]

So in this instance, "Hybrid" means driving thru a combination of means...diesel engine turning a generator to power the traction motors?

What would a diesel engine turning a hydraulic transmission to drive the wheels be, a non-hybrid? I don't see much difference. Now if the locomotive could run on battery power alone for a short distance, or a "parallel" combination of the engine running the generator, boosted by the battery for extra short term power, that...would be a hybrid....JMO.

 

[PerRock]

Normally a "Hybrid Locomotive" means that the locomotive can use 2 different power sources to power the motors. Usually that is a diesel engine & a battery bank, but could also be a 3rd rail instead of the batteries. On bigger locomotives, the batteries supplement the diesel engine, but on smaller switchers they can sometimes run just on battery power.

peter

 

[jis]

Railiner I agree with your assessment that when electricity is used merely as a transmission mechanism connecting a single source of power to the wheels it probable would not be considered “hybrid”. When its source of power is more than a single one that is when it becomes “hybrid”. Just my way of thinking about it which appears to have consistent basis to me. But I am open to convincing of changing my thinking.

 

[PVD]

There is reason in that thinking., but focusing on series, rather than parallel or series parallel, I can also see that side of it. since all power is distributed as electricity to the traction motors not through a power splitting arrangement. At least in transportation, I've generally heard that referenced as (almost all locos) D-E, often on cars, trucks, and buses, add batteries get DE Hybrid (available in both series and parallel, as in BAE vs Allison drives for buses) delete diesel, get B-E (like a Proterra)

 

[keelhauled]

In the rail industry, hybrid locomotive most commonly is used in reference to the Green Goat switching locomotives that used a small diesel to charge a battery bank, which drove the traction motors. GE also built a testbed Evolution series locomotive that they called a hybrid, but it only used batteries (charged by dynamic braking) to boost power to the traction motors; it couldn't operate on batteries alone. There have probably been various other one-off experiments.

The Green Goats had some issues with self-combustion and general unreliability, and simpler genset locomotives became favored for low-emissions switching jobs. GE's hybrid was never built commercially, since they have met every emissions requirement with the GEVO engine alone. Supposedly there is still design work happening for an updated version, though.

In Europe, CRRC recently sold several Green Goat style hybrids to Deutsche Bahn, though they aren't going to enter service for a few years.

The Charger is no more a hybrid than the P42 is, which is to say in an extremely literal interpretation it is but not in any typical usage of the term. It's the same design as a P42 except the engine says Cummins instead of GE.

 

[gswager]

Are Chargers more fuel efficient than P42s if pulling the same numbers of cars and tonnages? If so, how much efficient?

 

[Acela150]

Are Chargers more fuel efficient than P42s if pulling the same numbers of cars and tonnages? If so, how much efficient?

Since they are Tier 4 compliant I’ll venture to say they are slightly better. Maybe a half mile to a mile.