Amtrak Siemens Charger locomotive (SC44, ALC42, ALC42E) (2015 - 1Q 2024)

[Acela150]

It means that is has pneumatic controls  to control the brake functions  instead of electronic controls, like the newer equipment.

Thank ya! 

 

[GiantsFan]

Not sure if this is the right thread, but spotted a pacific surfliner charger in Oakland! (In the yard). 

Woukd it be up here for service?

 

[CSXfoamer1997]

With the P42's reaching their age, and many of the State Corridors ordering SC-44's, would there likely be any chance of Virginia placing an order of SC-44's for NE Regional service?

 

[Ryan]

They don’t provide locomotives now, so I see no reason for them to buy some out of the goodness of their hearts. 

If they’re compelled to start providing motive power, maybe?

 

[jis]

I think NY State will acquire dual modes, possibly based on the SC-44 base, either via Amtrak Empire or via MTA or both before acquiring any pure diesels.

 

[cpotisch]

I think NY State will acquire dual modes, possibly based on the SC-44 base, either via Amtrak Empire or via MTA or both before acquiring any pure diesels.

You think they’ll try for a catenary dual mode?

 

[Dutchrailnut]

no simply cause  FRA does not like third rail and catenary at same time .

 

[cpotisch]

no simply cause  FRA does not like third rail and catenary at same time .

I’m saying a diesel/catenary dual mode, not third rail.

 

[PVD]

NY uses 3rd rail and diesel dual modes on LIRR, MNRR, and pays a hefty chunk of the tab for the ones Amtrak uses. Not holding my breath waiting for that to change.  I can't recall any Cat/3rd rail combos for locos, only EMU's like MNRR/NH branch. That doesn't mean they don't exist, but I'm drawing a blank....

 

[Acela150]

no simply cause  FRA does not like third rail and catenary at same time .
 

I think you read a little to much into this cause even I picked up what he was hinting at.

I’m saying a diesel/catenary dual mode, not third rail.

I don’t think it’s likely. I can only think of one Railroad that does a power change “on the fly” from Third Rail to Overhead. That’s Metro North on their New Haven Line. Which occurs near Pelham. I’m also not entirely sure how much overhead there is outside of the Empire Connection Tunnel.

 

[John Santos]

I think you read a little to much into this cause even I picked up what he was hinting at.



I don’t think it’s likely. I can only think of one Railroad that does a power change “on the fly” from Third Rail to Overhead. That’s Metro North on their New Haven Line. Which occurs near Pelham. I’m also not entirely sure how much overhead there is outside of the Empire Connection Tunnel.

The MBTA Blue Line subway uses 3rd rail underground and overhead catenary power above ground.  I've never noticed it stop to switch power source but maybe if it's quick enough and does it at a station, passengers wouldn't typically notice.  The Blue Line is standard-gauge heavy rail, but uses narrower cars than most because the original tunnel under Boston Harbor was built for streetcars and later converted to heavy rail.  Also it has extremely tight curves in the turnaround loop at the end, which forces the use of shorter cars (48').

 

[west point]

AFAIR the MBTA uses the same DC voltage 3rd rail and overhead.  Now as to if the power source is connected to both at the change over point some one will have to  answer.

 

[cpotisch]

The MBTA Blue Line subway uses 3rd rail underground and overhead catenary power above ground.  I've never noticed it stop to switch power source but maybe if it's quick enough and does it at a station, passengers wouldn't typically notice.  The Blue Line is standard-gauge heavy rail, but uses narrower cars than most because the original tunnel under Boston Harbor was built for streetcars and later converted to heavy rail.  Also it has extremely tight curves in the turnaround loop at the end, which forces the use of shorter cars (48').

Metro-North's New Haven line also switches between third rail or catenary, and does so while on the move (though the train gets a lot louder when running on CAT, so it's an easily detectable).

I was asking about a diesel/catenary dual mode because I know that the Empire Connection tunnels are equipped with catenary as well, and that third rail has some serious limitations stemming from the limited amount of power it can provide (doesn't the HVAC system have to be cycled on and off when a P32 is running on electric or something?). 

 

[Thirdrail7]

(doesn't the HVAC system have to be cycled on and off when a P32 is running on electric or something?). 

No.

 

[jis]

AFAIR the MBTA uses the same DC voltage 3rd rail and overhead.  Now as to if the power source is connected to both at the change over point some one will have to  answer.

As mentioned by other, MNRR has transition between DC third rail and 12kV AC OHE in Pelham. The controls are set up such that it is impossible to simultaneously remain connected to both sources.

In Chicago Skokie Swift used to have a transition from third rail to overhead en route. That has all been converted to third rail now AFAIR.

There are numerous places in Europe where transition from one system to another happens on the fly, specially between lower voltage DC and high voltage AC systems, and thousands such take place every day with no mishap.

Examples of lines with far higher frequency service than anywhere in New York where this happens are:

London Thameslink from Southern Third Rail to 25kV catenary. Happens at a station, and this is now in Automatic Train Operation territory.

In the past Eurostar trains transition between 3rd rail and 25kV at Dollands Moor when they ran to Waterloo. Several Eurostars managed to loose a pantograph when the operator was not quick enough to retract it before passing under the first road overpass heading towards London from Dollands Moor.

Paris RER B - all trains transition from 25kV AC to 3kV DC catenary, exactly where I forget, but it is somewhere between Gare du Nord and Chatelet Le Halles AFAIR. Basically south of Paris electrification is low voltage DC (except the LGVs) and north is 25kV AC. Every train that crosses from one side to another goes through a voltage transition.

 

[cpotisch]

(doesn't the HVAC system have to be cycled on and off when a P32 is running on electric or something?). 

 No.

This is what I was thinking of:

and let me add that the cars take a huge beating too, they were designed for continuous HEP, but on third rail electric each gap the HEP shuts off and has to cycle back on, the cars were never designed for that.

imagine shutting the HVAC system down and back on 20 times in 10 minutes leaving from platform to straight rail in tunnel.

you can imagine the failure rate of AC systems.

Can you explain what I'm misunderstanding here? Thanks!

 

[Ryan]

There are gaps in the third rail that the train has to coast through.  Each time it does that, power to the train is lost. When the power is lost, the HVAC shuts off, because there is no power to run it.

Go down into your basement and flip the breaker on and off for your whole house a few times, a couple of times a day and see how well systems designed to be powered continuously behave when power is repeatedly cycled.

(it won't end well)

((don't actually do that, it'll make your parents mad))

((if you do, don't tell them I told you to)))

 

[cocojacoby]

The MBTA Blue Line subway uses 3rd rail underground and overhead catenary power above ground.  I've never noticed it stop to switch power source but maybe if it's quick enough and does it at a station, passengers wouldn't typically notice.

The MBTA Blue Line changes from third rail to catenary at the airport station while stopped.  Used to do it underground at Maverick before third rail was extended.

 

[PVD]

It is not uncommon in AC systems for the mfr to warn against power cycling too quickly. what I was saying earlier, as regarding the MNRR, that is an EMU set, not a separate engine/motor. I couldn't think of a US application like that being  DM engine  cat/rail electric pulled.   P32-DM are only spec'd to 60mph electric, can't see why that should present a power issue on a single track stretch...

 

[neroden]

They don’t provide locomotives now, so I see no reason for them to buy some out of the goodness of their hearts. 

If they’re compelled to start providing motive power, maybe?

Amtrak's charges for using Amtrak locomotives are rumored to be well higher thanthe costs of buying and running your own...

 

[neroden]

There are gaps in the third rail that the train has to coast through.  Each time it does that, power to the train is lost. When the power is lost, the HVAC shuts off, because there is no power to run it.

Go down into your basement and flip the breaker on and off for your whole house a few times, a couple of times a day and see how well systems designed to be powered continuously behave when power is repeatedly cycled.

(it won't end well)

((don't actually do that, it'll make your parents mad))

((if you do, don't tell them I told you to)))

Modern trains should have batteries to buffer the gap.  It does not take much.

 

[Ryan]

I was explaining the world as it is, not as it should be to answer the young man's question.

 

[DSS&A]

The Chicago Transit Authority  Skokie Swift change from 3rd Rail to overhead wire operation was onheritated when the CTA took over a short portion of the abandoned Chicago North Shore &  Milwaukee RR in the mid-1960s. CNS&M ended operations in January 1963.

CNS&M used trolley poles and operated at speeds up to 90mph under trolley wire.  The change to raise and lower the trolley poles was done at speed.  A friend of mine knew a few CNS&M conductors and they told him they had to stand between the cars to raise and lower the poles.  Even after years of experience,  they said it was a challenge to raise the poles at night in a rain or snowstorm at speed!  The transition between 3rd rail and overhead wire happened at Crawford Avenue in Skokie, Il.

Here's a link to an article with photos of the Electroliners operating in both 3rd rail and overhead territories. 

https://www.cruiselinehistory.com/the-electroliner-90-miles-per-hour-from-milwaukee-to-chicago/

 

[Thirdrail7]

Modern trains should have batteries to buffer the gap.  It does not take much.

They do have batteries to buffer the gap. However, the batteries aren't for the energy sucking, high powered HVAC system.

 

[DSS&A]

The electronic sign on the nose of the Charger loco is great for knowing what train you are looking at.   The Feb 28th Illinois Zephyr had three superliners instead of single-level coaches.