Amtrak Siemens Charger locomotive (SC44, ALC42, ALC42E) (2015 - 1Q 2024)

[user 14106]

They can’t lead anywhere in the east yet - so you won’t see them on any services there. They are still not approved for cab signals or ACSES PTC. When they do test runs for acceptance they have to stick an ACS 64 in the lead position as a cab car.

 

[Septa9739]

Following up: I took a closer look and it’s two ALC-42’s, set up top and tail around maybe 4 AMFLEE’s. One was #324. Acceptance testing seems to be the most likely theory.

 

[Agent]

AMTK 328 and 329 are now traveling eastward on Amtrak #6(22). Brenden Railfan caught this California Zephyr at Roseville, California yesterday.

 

[Dutchrailnut]

get the Dramamine.

 

[west point]

To start. Have not seen any complete operating specification of various Chargers except Wiki.

On another web site There are loco posters' claims that Chargers connected to HEP have no loss of traction power. The posters say that a screen shows when not connected to HEP and connected to HEP that traction shows 4400 HP when notch 8? The question IMO seems difficult to determine if only pulling the 3 - 5 in service cars. As well temps have been mild requiring less heat and AC.

The real answer is what HP would be shown when supplying HEP to a normally large Auto Train consist. Some speculators thought that the QSK could provide more than 4400 HP? A long AT consist would probably need 900 Kw + during hot days outside and cooking meals close to the HEP 1000 Kw max ..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siemens_Charger
https://www.bing.com/search?q=qsk-9...aqs=edge..69i57.16030j0j4&FORM=ANAB01&PC=HCTS

 

[jis]

To start. Have not seen any complete operating specification of various Chargers except Wiki.

On another web site There are loco posters' claims that Chargers connected to HEP have no loss of traction power. The posters say that a screen shows when not connected to HEP and connected to HEP that traction shows 4400 HP when notch 8? The question IMO seems difficult to determine if only pulling the 3 - 5 in service cars. As well temps have been mild requiring less heat and AC.

The real answer is what HP would be shown when supplying HEP to a normally large Auto Train consist. Some speculators thought that the QSK could provide more than 4400 HP? A long AT consist would probably need 900 Kw + during hot days outside and cooking meals close to the HEP 1000 Kw max ..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siemens_Charger
https://www.bing.com/search?q=qsk-9...aqs=edge..69i57.16030j0j4&FORM=ANAB01&PC=HCTS

For those of you that have access to Trainorders (a paid subscription site), this discussion has been going on in the following thread on that site, helped by an Engineer who operates a midwest SC44:

https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?4,5668082
Quite an interesting discussion with some interesting inputs.... If you happen to have access, you will notice that I have been a significant contributor to that discussion making many of the points excerpted in the quote above, and many of the other contributors are not on AU, so it might be more fruitful to keep track of what is being discussed on that thread in addition to whatever we wish to discuss here.

In particular the actual observations on power output in various load situations posted recently does not match what is stated in the post quoted above.

 

[Paniolo Man]

If there was only one user claiming to run Chargers saying there is no traction HP loss with HEP I wouldn't believe it. There's two, and for those without a subscription, on the second page one of them actually recorded some numbers and posted them demonstrating horsepower output under different loads. User 2904 claims that the unit they recorded data on (presumably and ALC-42) at throttle 8 with HEP was generating 4150-4200 shaft horsepower.

Sounds like the traction motors are only rated for a combined 3950HP, but might be able to go higher? Some other folks saying that the HP rating comes from the power into the traction inverters which sustains some loss. If the motors are truly only rated at 3950HP that begs the question: What's the difference between an ALC-42 and an SC-44?

Correct me if anything I say is incorrect or misinterpreted.

 

[GDRRiley]

traction motors only being rated for 3950 continuous would make sense. Some of it is the midwest and California trains don't exactly need a lot of HEP, they likely only need 40-50KW per car even something like a superliner dinner is likely only 80-100KW.

 

[jis]

In that TO thread we arrived at the conclusion about unavailability of critical details about the data/spec numbers that are needed to validate the claim of lossless HEP, which in the face of it would be just one step short of having a Flux Capacitor. .
The question about "lossless relative to what" cannot be answered given the available information because the rated HP number details are apparently trade secrets. We do not know at which point is the 4400HP speced. At the driveshaft of the prime mover? On the DC bus? At the wheels? When these specific questions are asked they are not answered in a straightforward way either by Siemens or any of the users of those units.

One thing we can rest assured is that no laws of Physics or Mathematics have been broken. Good marketing obfuscation OTOH is the most likely explanation, and at some point we may be able to figure out the details if an appropriate leak can be discovered somewhere

 

[Agent]

A light power move brought new Chargers AMTK 330 and 331 from the factory to Oakland today. Sky Rider posted a video of the move.

 

[railiner]

In that TO thread we arrived at the conclusion about unavailability of critical details about the data/spec numbers that are needed to validate the claim of lossless HEP, which in the face of it would be just one step short of having a Flux Capacitor. .
The question about "lossless relative to what" cannot be answered given the available information because the rated HP number details are apparently trade secrets. We do not know at which point is the 4400HP speced. At the driveshaft of the prime mover? On the DC bus? At the wheels? When these specific questions are asked they are not answered in a straightforward way either by Siemens or any of the users of those units.

One thing we can rest assured is that no laws of Physics or Mathematics have been broken. Good marketing obfuscation OTOH is the most likely explanation, and at some point we may be able to figure out the details if an appropriate leak can be discovered somewhere

Just a thought…were those units tested at the Transportation Technology Center in Pueblo?

If for Amtrak, would a FOI inquiry be possible?

 

[jis]

Just a thought…were those units tested at the Transportation Technology Center in Pueblo?

If for Amtrak, would a FOI inquiry be possible?

Unless that information is specified to be a trade secret by the contract between Amtrak and the vendor, it could be extracted using FOIA. If it is a trade secret, then generally it cannot, unless some pressing need of public good etc. can be established. This seems like such an esoteric geeky piece of info, I doubt such an attempt will succeed.

 

[Agent]

330 and 331 departed on the eastbound California Zephyr which happened to have new heritage unit AMTK 164 leading. Marcel Hall caught this Amtrak #6(12) at Emeryville.



It was later caught by Sky Rider.

 

[Agent]

I caught 330 and 331 traveling on Amtrak #6(12) east of Ottumwa, Iowa today. The California Zephyr was running about two and a half hours late and catching up to a coal load that passed fifteen minutes earlier.

 

[Acela150]

I can confirm that Amtrak is in the process of doing extensive ATC, ACSES, Cab Signal Testing with the Chargers on the PH line.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

Through Rockville, MD on 05/17/23

 

[Agent]

Amtrak #6(26) is taking the new Chargers AMTK 332 and 334 on its journey to Chicago. Sky Rider filmed this California Zephyr in California.



Adam Ghimenti filmed it in Sacramento.

 

[Agent]

Seems there's a complication for #6(26) and its Chargers.

"As of 8:20 am ET: Due to severe weather conditions along the route, California Zephyr Train 6 which departs Emeryville (EMY) on 5/26 will terminate in Denver (DEN)."

 

[AmtrakBlue]

Seems there's a complication for #6(26) and its Chargers.

"As of 8:20 am ET: Due to severe weather conditions along the route, California Zephyr Train 6 which departs Emeryville (EMY) on 5/26 will terminate in Denver (DEN)."

Flooding in sw Nebraska.

 

[Agent]

#6(26) dropped off the two Chargers in Denver where they were picked up by #6(27). I caught this train running two and a half hours late east of Ottumwa, Iowa. This Zephyr was led by P40 816 and P42 56, so there were three different models of Amtrak diesels on one train.

 

[Acela150]

Test train is bound for Boston tomorrow (June 1st). Crew is slated to be on duty in Philly around 8am. This is subject to change.

 

[Dutchrailnut]

test train ? chargers or Avelia Liberty ? as chargers are not allowed to power trough NYP and tunnels.

 

[user 32479]

probably not since the non version will be used behind any type of loco in the inventory when they are in service.

When will they replace the P42's on the Northeast Regional service from Norfolk Va to Washington D.C?

 

[Acela150]

chargers are not allowed to power trough NYP and tunnels.

Says who?

 

[Bob Dylan]

Says who?

Think I'll take your Word for it Steve since you work on the NEC!!!