Amtrak's New "Fresh Choices" Dining on CL & LSL

[crescent-zephyr]

the majority of passengers look forward to the social interaction at meal time whether with other sleeper passengers or with Coach passengers.

I highly doubt this is even close to true. I loved getting a private table all to myself on the PPC. I've met some wonderful fellow travelers in the Amtrak dining car, but I've also had some extremely awkward situations. Some of those awkward situations were created by mixing sleeper and coach passengers. I created quite a fuss one time by asking for a side of potatoes with my french toast... the coach passenger demanded she should also get potatoes with her french toast... it was a mess and made me wish I had just ordered the scrambled eggs. Yeah... lets keep those fun times rolling shall we?

While I have some concerns about the new dining, the one thing that DOES seem to get solved is... you can eat however you like. Here's your food.. have it in your room, have it in the "sleeper lounge" or hey you can always take your boxed meal to the cafe car if you want to eat with coach passengers.

I can't believe you posted that sanctimonious statement!!!! I hope I misunderstood your message!

What statement? What message? ha.

 

[rrdude]

the majority of passengers look forward to the social interaction at meal time whether with other sleeper passengers or with Coach passengers.

I highly doubt this is even close to true. I loved getting a private table all to myself on the PPC. I've met some wonderful fellow travelers in the Amtrak dining car, but I've also had some extremely awkward situations. Some of those awkward situations were created by mixing sleeper and coach passengers. I created quite a fuss one time by asking for a side of potatoes with my french toast... the coach passenger demanded she should also get potatoes with her french toast... it was a mess and made me wish I had just ordered the scrambled eggs. Yeah... lets keep those fun times rolling shall we?
While I have some concerns about the new dining, the one thing that DOES seem to get solved is... you can eat however you like. Here's your food.. have it in your room, have it in the "sleeper lounge" or hey you can always take your boxed meal to the cafe car if you want to eat with coach passengers.

You have those choices today.... on any LD train......

 

[rrdude]

the majority of passengers look forward to the social interaction at meal time whether with other sleeper passengers or with Coach passengers.

I highly doubt this is even close to true. I loved getting a private table all to myself on the PPC. I've met some wonderful fellow travelers in the Amtrak dining car, but I've also had some extremely awkward situations. Some of those awkward situations were created by mixing sleeper and coach passengers. I created quite a fuss one time by asking for a side of potatoes with my french toast... the coach passenger demanded she should also get potatoes with her french toast... it was a mess and made me wish I had just ordered the scrambled eggs. Yeah... lets keep those fun times rolling shall we?
While I have some concerns about the new dining, the one thing that DOES seem to get solved is... you can eat however you like. Here's your food.. have it in your room, have it in the "sleeper lounge" or hey you can always take your boxed meal to the cafe car if you want to eat with coach passengers.

I can't believe you posted that sanctimonious statement!!!! I hope I misunderstood your message!

What statement? What message? ha.

Your message seems to indicate you’d rather not “rub shoulders” with the coach passengers......

 

[seat38a]

the majority of passengers look forward to the social interaction at meal time whether with other sleeper passengers or with Coach passengers.

I highly doubt this is even close to true. I loved getting a private table all to myself on the PPC. I've met some wonderful fellow travelers in the Amtrak dining car, but I've also had some extremely awkward situations. Some of those awkward situations were created by mixing sleeper and coach passengers. I created quite a fuss one time by asking for a side of potatoes with my french toast... the coach passenger demanded she should also get potatoes with her french toast... it was a mess and made me wish I had just ordered the scrambled eggs. Yeah... lets keep those fun times rolling shall we?

While I have some concerns about the new dining, the one thing that DOES seem to get solved is... you can eat however you like. Here's your food.. have it in your room, have it in the "sleeper lounge" or hey you can always take your boxed meal to the cafe car if you want to eat with coach passengers.

I can't believe you posted that sanctimonious statement!!!! I hope I misunderstood your message!

You can scold lynch crescent-zephyr for saying it all you want but over the years, I've come to realize that quite a few members have said exactly what crescent-zephyr said in a more circuitous PC way.

Personally, I've had a mixed experience with being seated with coach passengers in the dining car. One guy seemed out of it and if he had a orange jumpsuit on could have easily been on the evening news. This past trip on the CS, my mom excused herself from the table and practically ran out the dining car because she was feeling nauseated. She was sitting next to a woman who boarded in Portland and traveling in coach. She was very nice but unfortunately she did not smell pleasant after 30+ hours on the train without a shower. And this one goes for both sleeper and coach passengers. Some just won't shut up!

Also, when we're seated with coach passengers, it does get a little awkward when it comes to ordering food. While the 3 of us are enjoying our steak and talking about how blah blah blah. Its easier to have the conversation with another fellow sleeper passenger who gets everything included than when sitting with someone who orders the cheapest thing off the menu and also none of the dinner roll/salads/dessert. Were eating and they are just sitting there.

To be honest I really can do without the wondering/worrying who we're going to get put with(coach/sleeper) during the walk down to the dining car.

 

[Sauve850]

I travel train from west coast to Florida each late summer/early fall. I stop over for a night in Chicago and catch the CL the next evening. I used to eat in the dining car but service was such that I gave it up. It just ran so late that I began buying food in the station and taking it to my bedroom. I get my bed made up when the SCA stops by and eat a sandwich and dessert after we leave the station.

I will miss breakfast as that has always been the best meal on the trains imo. So I will sleep in, enjoy the new breakfast with a plan to visit Johnny Rockets in DC after the CL arrives before my connection to Florida.

 

[spinnaker]

I travel train from west coast to Florida each late summer/early fall. I stop over for a night in Chicago and catch the CL the next evening. I used to eat in the dining car but service was such that I gave it up. It just ran so late that I began buying food in the station and taking it to my bedroom. I get my bed made up when the SCA stops by and eat a sandwich and dessert after we leave the station.

I will miss breakfast as that has always been the best meal on the trains imo. So I will sleep in, enjoy the new breakfast with a plan to visit Johnny Rockets in DC after the CL arrives before my connection to Florida.

This is at least the second complaint on diner car service. Why are people eating in the diner when they don't like the service or atmosphere? I travel alone. I prefer to be alone for dinner. I just get my dinner sent to my room. No messing with reservations. No worry about having to make conversation. No problems with diner car service. Problem solved.

 

[Sauve850]

I just prefer not to eat dinner late. Eating in ones room doesn't get the food there any earlier. "Service" was not the right choice of words. Its a timing issue for me.

 

[me_little_me]

I dislike the whole idea of sitting in the room eating. I have never had a problem sitting with coach people in the diner. I think that those that want to sit by themselves should do so but it is not an excuse to get rid of the diner. For what I pay for some of my trips vs first class travel on a plane, I want the service I expect. If not, then I fly. Already, we have done first class one way and train the other based on the cheaper cost of first class at times. I won't take the Star and will pay the extra cost of the Meteor because I want to enjoy my trip. If I am not given the choice,

And as to who is the customer, the rider pays most of the cost and the taxpayer (not the government) pays the rest. The same is true for cars, planes, buses and trucks. Therefore, I pay my fare plus my portion of the taxes. I am the customer.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

the majority of passengers look forward to the social interaction at meal time whether with other sleeper passengers or with Coach passengers.

I highly doubt this is even close to true. I loved getting a private table all to myself on the PPC. I've met some wonderful fellow travelers in the Amtrak dining car, but I've also had some extremely awkward situations. Some of those awkward situations were created by mixing sleeper and coach passengers. I created quite a fuss one time by asking for a side of potatoes with my french toast... the coach passenger demanded she should also get potatoes with her french toast... it was a mess and made me wish I had just ordered the scrambled eggs. Yeah... lets keep those fun times rolling shall we?
While I have some concerns about the new dining, the one thing that DOES seem to get solved is... you can eat however you like. Here's your food.. have it in your room, have it in the "sleeper lounge" or hey you can always take your boxed meal to the cafe car if you want to eat with coach passengers.

I can't believe you posted that sanctimonious statement!!!! I hope I misunderstood your message!

What statement? What message? ha.

Your message seems to indicate you’d rather not “rub shoulders” with the coach passengers......

Can you please show me where I said such a thing?

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

Some of those awkward situations were created by mixing sleeper and coach passengers. I created quite a fuss one time by asking for a side of potatoes with my french toast... the coach passenger demanded she should also get potatoes with her french toast... it was a mess and made me wish I had just ordered the scrambled eggs. Yeah... lets keep those fun times rolling shall we?

Your message seems to indicate youd rather not rub shoulders with the coach passengers......

Can you please show me where I said such a thing?

After reading your post, I draw the same conclusion. Your message seem to indicate you would rather not rub shoulders with Coach passengers. Your request for information is just as intriguing. Awkward situation is a understatement.

.

 

[TinCan782]

the majority of passengers look forward to the social interaction at meal time whether with other sleeper passengers or with Coach passengers.

I highly doubt this is even close to true. I loved getting a private table all to myself on the PPC. I've met some wonderful fellow travelers in the Amtrak dining car, but I've also had some extremely awkward situations. Some of those awkward situations were created by mixing sleeper and coach passengers. I created quite a fuss one time by asking for a side of potatoes with my french toast... the coach passenger demanded she should also get potatoes with her french toast... it was a mess and made me wish I had just ordered the scrambled eggs. Yeah... lets keep those fun times rolling shall we?

While I have some concerns about the new dining, the one thing that DOES seem to get solved is... you can eat however you like. Here's your food.. have it in your room, have it in the "sleeper lounge" or hey you can always take your boxed meal to the cafe car if you want to eat with coach passengers.

The very FEW instances of "awkward situations" in the diner have been greatly overshadowed by the good experiences.

 

[Chey]

I've had mixed experiences in the dining car myself. Being a bit of an Aspie, I am very uncomfortable making conversation with strangers. OTOH I've met some fascinating people who were easy to talk to from all sections of the train. Also some pretty weird ones. A glass of wine lets me relax enough to venture out but I'm still inclined to prefer my meals in my room.

We have the same options we've always had. Live and let live.

 

[Rail Freak]

the majority of passengers look forward to the social interaction at meal time whether with other sleeper passengers or with Coach passengers.

I highly doubt this is even close to true. I loved getting a private table all to myself on the PPC. I've met some wonderful fellow travelers in the Amtrak dining car, but I've also had some extremely awkward situations. Some of those awkward situations were created by mixing sleeper and coach passengers. I created quite a fuss one time by asking for a side of potatoes with my french toast... the coach passenger demanded she should also get potatoes with her french toast... it was a mess and made me wish I had just ordered the scrambled eggs. Yeah... lets keep those fun times rolling shall we?
While I have some concerns about the new dining, the one thing that DOES seem to get solved is... you can eat however you like. Here's your food.. have it in your room, have it in the "sleeper lounge" or hey you can always take your boxed meal to the cafe car if you want to eat with coach passengers.

I can't believe you posted that sanctimonious statement!!!! I hope I misunderstood your message!

What statement? What message? ha.

Your message seems to indicate you’d rather not “rub shoulders” with the coach passengers......

Can you please show me where I said such a thing?

I apologize, I must have misunderstood you!!!

 

[jis]

I think that when two sets of people with different entitlements are mixed together, and in such a setting the person with higher entitlements visibly exercises such, it can lead to hurt feelings on part of the person with lower entitlements. That's all that was illustrated by crescent-zephyr's example. To jump from that to the conclusion that he does not like to rub shoulders etc. etc. is mostly in the imagination of the reader(s). As for why they do that I have no way of knowing.

Incidentally this problem is not peculiar to Amtrak Diners. It happens in many other settings too.

 

[dlagrua]

http://cs.trains.com/trn/b/fred-frailey/archive/2018/04/23/meals-on-wheels-oh-my.aspx

Fred Frailey with a great take on this. Just add in hot meals to this and it's not so bad.

If you ask me, the guy is "off his rocker" with this analysis and let me tell you why. First off the hot breakfast in the dining car costs very little to serve. Add up what a cup of coffee, a roll, two eggs and a link or sausage or two strips of bacon costs to make. You're talking about maybe a $1.00-$1.50 in food cost perhaps less. Now replace this with a cold breakfast. Will it really save anything ? Now lets look at labor cost. Its been reported that food service workers will not lose their jobs. OK that's a good thing, you still have that labor and they are still on the payroll. Now consider that Amtrak will still run a car for sleeper passengers to eat in..Amtrak has the cost of running the car. Will someone please tell me where the savings are?

Who do you think is off his rocker? Just because you can get something at the Supermarket at some price does not mean that the same thing can be retailed in a restaurant on wheels served by folks making good union wages and benefits for the same price. Otherwise all breakfasts at Denny's even would cost much less than they do.

The core issue about labor cost is that this is a method for moving the labor cost out of the F&B account to the general train account, while also eliminating a part of it, so even if every person is retained on the train, they disappear from the F&B account, except for one LSA. Capiche? The business about cold food has entirely to do with minimizing work load on the remaining non F&B people picking up the food from inventory and delivering them. I, like Fred, would prefer that airline First Class or Acela First Class style hot food was served, and maybe we will be able to arrive there somehow. But it does require some prep.

Again, just because I am explaining what is going on does not mean I necessarily agree with any of it.

I appreciate your well though out analysis about the change of the food service situation. IMO, serving cold food and reassigning the food service people will not save a penny but that's a different argument. As you state it moves the F&B expense to a different area. This is just flawed economics but congress is famous for this . I have decided to take petitions with me on our next trip to give to the food service people in order to gather public support for saving the dining cars. We are told that the food service people will not lose their jobs but what will these good people do when there are 4 or 5 extra people on each train?. I'll tell you what Amtrak will do. After a few months, Amtrak will sight a surplus of staff and Anderson "the hero" will find a way to lay them all off. Anderson comes from a time period in Delta;s history when the airline laid off thousands of people. Amtrak hired the right hatchet man to get the job done. I hope that I am wrong..

 

[AmtrakBlue]

http://cs.trains.com/trn/b/fred-frailey/archive/2018/04/23/meals-on-wheels-oh-my.aspx

Fred Frailey with a great take on this. Just add in hot meals to this and it's not so bad.

If you ask me, the guy is "off his rocker" with this analysis and let me tell you why. First off the hot breakfast in the dining car costs very little to serve. Add up what a cup of coffee, a roll, two eggs and a link or sausage or two strips of bacon costs to make. You're talking about maybe a $1.00-$1.50 in food cost perhaps less. Now replace this with a cold breakfast. Will it really save anything ? Now lets look at labor cost. Its been reported that food service workers will not lose their jobs. OK that's a good thing, you still have that labor and they are still on the payroll. Now consider that Amtrak will still run a car for sleeper passengers to eat in..Amtrak has the cost of running the car. Will someone please tell me where the savings are?

Who do you think is off his rocker? Just because you can get something at the Supermarket at some price does not mean that the same thing can be retailed in a restaurant on wheels served by folks making good union wages and benefits for the same price. Otherwise all breakfasts at Denny's even would cost much less than they do.

The core issue about labor cost is that this is a method for moving the labor cost out of the F&B account to the general train account, while also eliminating a part of it, so even if every person is retained on the train, they disappear from the F&B account, except for one LSA. Capiche? The business about cold food has entirely to do with minimizing work load on the remaining non F&B people picking up the food from inventory and delivering them. I, like Fred, would prefer that airline First Class or Acela First Class style hot food was served, and maybe we will be able to arrive there somehow. But it does require some prep.

Again, just because I am explaining what is going on does not mean I necessarily agree with any of it.

I appreciate your well though out analysis about the change of the food service situation. IMO, serving cold food and reassigning the food service people will not save a penny but that's a different argument. As you state it moves the F&B expense to a different area. This is just flawed economics but congress is famous for this . I have decided to take petitions with me on our next trip to give to the food service people in order to gather public support for saving the dining cars. We are told that the food service people will not lose their jobs but what will these good people do when there are 4 or 5 extra people on each train?. I'll tell you what Amtrak will do. After a few months, Amtrak will sight a surplus of staff and Anderson "the hero" will find a way to lay them all off. Anderson comes from a time period in Delta;s history when the airline laid off thousands of people. Amtrak hired the right hatchet man to get the job done. I hope that I am wrong..

Do you really think it’s a good idea to ask employees to distribute petitions while on the job (or even when not on the job)? Sounds like you’re trying to save Anderson the trouble of laying off employees as they may get fired for doing what you ask them to do.

 

[Lonestar648]

You may want to check first if it against employee regs to handle such requests? I wouldn't want to place an unaware employee in the bulls-eye of management retaliation.

 

[OBS]

http://cs.trains.com/trn/b/fred-frailey/archive/2018/04/23/meals-on-wheels-oh-my.aspx

Fred Frailey with a great take on this. Just add in hot meals to this and it's not so bad.

If you ask me, the guy is "off his rocker" with this analysis and let me tell you why. First off the hot breakfast in the dining car costs very little to serve. Add up what a cup of coffee, a roll, two eggs and a link or sausage or two strips of bacon costs to make. You're talking about maybe a $1.00-$1.50 in food cost perhaps less. Now replace this with a cold breakfast. Will it really save anything ? Now lets look at labor cost. Its been reported that food service workers will not lose their jobs. OK that's a good thing, you still have that labor and they are still on the payroll. Now consider that Amtrak will still run a car for sleeper passengers to eat in..Amtrak has the cost of running the car. Will someone please tell me where the savings are?

Who do you think is off his rocker? Just because you can get something at the Supermarket at some price does not mean that the same thing can be retailed in a restaurant on wheels served by folks making good union wages and benefits for the same price. Otherwise all breakfasts at Denny's even would cost much less than they do.

The core issue about labor cost is that this is a method for moving the labor cost out of the F&B account to the general train account, while also eliminating a part of it, so even if every person is retained on the train, they disappear from the F&B account, except for one LSA. Capiche? The business about cold food has entirely to do with minimizing work load on the remaining non F&B people picking up the food from inventory and delivering them. I, like Fred, would prefer that airline First Class or Acela First Class style hot food was served, and maybe we will be able to arrive there somehow. But it does require some prep.

Again, just because I am explaining what is going on does not mean I necessarily agree with any of it.

I appreciate your well though out analysis about the change of the food service situation. IMO, serving cold food and reassigning the food service people will not save a penny but that's a different argument. As you state it moves the F&B expense to a different area. This is just flawed economics but congress is famous for this . I have decided to take petitions with me on our next trip to give to the food service people in order to gather public support for saving the dining cars. We are told that the food service people will not lose their jobs but what will these good people do when there are 4 or 5 extra people on each train?. I'll tell you what Amtrak will do. After a few months, Amtrak will sight a surplus of staff and Anderson "the hero" will find a way to lay them all off. Anderson comes from a time period in Delta;s history when the airline laid off thousands of people. Amtrak hired the right hatchet man to get the job done. I hope that I am wrong..

Do you really think it’s a good idea to ask employees to distribute petitions while on the job (or even when not on the job)? Sounds like you’re trying to save Anderson the trouble of laying off employees as they may get fired for doing what you ask them to do.

Unfortunately, the employees are not allowed to participate in any way.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

Pretty sure there could be a rule against distributing literature on the train. Might be wise to just enjoy your boxed meal and mixed drink for what it is and let people decide on thier own if they wish to continue riding Amtak.

 

[Ryan]

Fortunately, I would say. They have a job to do, and it doesn’t involve being political activists on behalf of random customers.

 

[jis]

Pretty sure there could be a rule against distributing literature on the train. Might be wise to just enjoy your boxed meal and mixed drink for what it is and let people decide on thier own if they wish to continue riding Amtak.

As long as you do not make it look like an organized movement, and instead just discreetly hand out stuff to people you meet, I don't think anyone will complain. Trying to involve Amtrak staff in all this sort of stuff is a big no-no.

In general putting literature in support of Amtrak that is not critical of Amtrak management overtly has been accepted in the past for placement in free document shelves at many stations. But active participation of staff is generally looked down upon I believe.

Just some impressions from past experience in distributing literature in connection with Amtrak related votes in the Congress and such. YMMV

 

[crescent-zephyr]

Interesting to note Anderson (or whoever) may be looking at other overnight trains for ideas... both overnight trains that operate in England, the Night Riviera and the Caledonian Sleeper (both trains depart London and offer a 1 night journey arriving the next morning) operate in a very similar way. Breakfast is advertised at your cabin or "in the lounge if you prefer" - sleeper class passengers have exclusive use of the lounge, coach passengers may purchase food to eat at their seat. All passengers receive an amenity kit. Lots of interesting comparisons. Dinner is not included, but can be purchased in the lounge, or be delivered to your room.

If you google either train name along with the word "breakfast" you will see a pretty basic, mostly pre-packaged breakfast. The "hot" breakfast items on both trains look to be extremely basic "heat and serve" dishes. And many of the photos are of all prepackaged items with cereal.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

Interesting to note Anderson (or whoever) may be looking at other overnight trains for ideas... both overnight trains that operate in England, the Night Riviera and the Caledonian Sleeper (both trains depart London and offer a 1 night journey arriving the next morning) operate in a very similar way. Breakfast is advertised at your cabin or "in the lounge if you prefer" - sleeper class passengers have exclusive use of the lounge, coach passengers may purchase food to eat at their seat. All passengers receive an amenity kit. Lots of interesting comparisons. Dinner is not included, but can be purchased in the lounge, or be delivered to your room.

If you google either train name along with the word "breakfast" you will see a pretty basic, mostly pre-packaged breakfast. The "hot" breakfast items on both trains look to be extremely basic "heat and serve" dishes. And many of the photos are of all prepackaged items with cereal.

Wonder if the same people who say Amtrak should be more like the European trains will complain that Amtrak is starting to look more like the European trains. [emoji848]

 

[Maglev]

When I was in England around 1990, I rode the "Pullman" train from London to Penzance and had dinner on board (I think Jis recently took this trip...). Food was ordered on the train but prepared off the train and picked up en-route. The meal was delicious!

 

[jis]

When I was in England around 1990, I rode the "Pullman" train from London to Penzance and had dinner on board (I think Jis recently took this trip...). Food was ordered on the train but prepared off the train and picked up en-route. The meal was delicious!

Charlie was on it recently too. It is the Caledonian Sleeper service operated by a private franchisee, Serco for Scottish Rail Regulators which is the contracting agency, in a new franchise for 15 years. Even trying to propose such an operation in the US would be liable to be treated as blasphemy these days. C'est la vie.

BTW, it is getting brand spanking new Mark V cars, manufactured by CAF (75 cars) delivered more or less on time. They go into service in October this year.