Amtrak's New "Fresh Choices" Dining on CL & LSL

[Ryan]

You know that lunch isn’t going to be served?

 

[Lonestar648]

I know no lunch on CL, so if you eat at 7 AM it will be 2PM if lucky before you grab lunch in WAS. Coming to CHI, you get in early enough for a normal lunch in the city.

 

[Ryan]

You know that lunch isn’t served now.

Nobody knows (to my knowledge) if lunch is going to be served under the new scheme.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

You know that lunch isnt served now.

Nobody knows (to my knowledge) if lunch is going to be served under the new scheme.

Well the whole "we need to clean up the kitchen" excuse won't be valid anymore. It seems logical to me to expect a "fresh" lunch on the eastbound capitol.

 

[user 14106]

Isn't the proposed breakfast pretty much the same as the Auto Train breakfast that has been served to all passengers - sleeper and coach - for years?

Iirc the auto train at least included cereal. The set up on lsl and cl does not include cereal according to information provided.

Auto Train indeed does have cereal.

 

[kdeschner]

I agree that the food choices that Amtrak mentioned are crazy for sleeper pax if that is all that is available, but reading the press release, it is said "Entrees such as". does this mean that there are going to be more choices that what is listed? Because that is the implication I am given. I am riding the LSL in later July, so I will be curious to read this forum on June 2nd!

 

[jis]

LSL and CL will have significantly more choices than what the Silver Star has. So while it is a definite downgrade, it really is nowhere near the ultimate termination of the world.

 

[neroden]

It's essentially incompetence, that's what bugs me. If Amtrak made a serious effort to upgrade the available cafe selections -- boiled eggs (available packaged / not fresh in many stores), oatmeal (available on the Downeaster), etc., I'd think they were *trying*. This just reeks of incompetence.

 

[TiBike]

All you know is what's in the press release, and I can tell you as someone who has read (and occasionally written) many like it in the course of a long and varied career, the press release is a competent piece of work. It may not meet rail geek expectations, but one that did (if such an accomplishment is even possible) would not be suitable – competent – for a consumer audience.

My unsolicited advice FWIW: wait and see what they actually roll out, then give them a couple of weeks to iron out the kinks. If, at that point, the sky actually has fallen, resume your rants.

 

[cpotisch]

A typical sleeper ticket on the LSL can run $540. If Amtrak loses four sleeper passengers per train over this -- which they likely will -- I would guess the entire "cost savings" gets wiped out.

While I agree that this is a moronic decision and it's being implemented on the worst train to do so, you are slightly off in your calculations. If you're estimate about an average sleeper price of $540, Amtrak would have to lose at least six sleeper passengers per train, in order to lose money

$540 x 365 days x 3 consists x 4 passengers = loss of $2,365,200. Six passengers would total out at $3,547,800. Any less than that and "Fresh Choices" is profitable.

 

[niemi24s]

FWIW, according to this... https://www.railpassengers.org/site/assets/files/3447/45.pdf ...the average sleeper fare on the LSL during FY17 was $244 - which I think is on a per passenger basis.

 

[neroden]

A typical sleeper ticket on the LSL can run $540. If Amtrak loses four sleeper passengers per train over this -- which they likely will -- I would guess the entire "cost savings" gets wiped out.

While I agree that this is a moronic decision and it's being implemented on the worst train to do so, you are slightly off in your calculations. If you're estimate about an average sleeper price of $540, Amtrak would have to lose at least six sleeper passengers per train, in order to lose money
$540 x 365 days x 3 consists x 4 passengers = loss of $2,365,200. Six passengers would total out at $3,547,800. Any less than that and "Fresh Choices" is profitable.

Ah, I was counting 2 LSL departures per day + 2 CL departures per day because those are the trains on which breakfast service is being effectively eliminated.

4 departures per day x 4 passengers per train x 365 x $540 = $3153600. Though I figure they're also losing coach patronage in the dining car which should cost more money, though hard to know how much (especially since they probably also lost a coach patronage with the *previous* round of downgrades).

It would be lovely to have real numbers. The one thing I am absolutely sure of is that Mr. Anderson does NOT have real numbers. If he did, he'd be reporting the Congressionally-mandated "avoidable loss" numbers, which he is not reporting, in flagrant violation of the law. I think he doesn't have the numbers at all.

Even in cases where he has the numbers he's lying about them, like his false claim of "$750 million" losses on long-distance trains (the official fully-allocated-costs number is under $500 million, and the avoidable costs number is much lower than that though it's unpublished.)

He's making decisions based on gut instinct without using proper business data. This is almost always wrong, and it killed the Milwaukee Road, among others.

 

[cpotisch]

FWIW, according to this... https://www.railpassengers.org/site/assets/files/3447/45.pdf ...the average sleeper fare on the LSL during FY17 was $244 - which I think is on a per passenger basis.

If that's the case, then 13 people (split between the CL and LSL). However, it's not that simple, since reduced ridership on those two trains can also result in reduced ridership on the Western trains.

 

[Lonestar648]

Initially, I would expect the passenger count to be flat until people really hear what has happened, actual experience, before significant passengers find alternant transportation.

 

[cpotisch]

Initially, I would expect the passenger count to be flat until people really hear what has happened, actual experience, before significant passengers find alternant transportation.

Right. The new meal service could (somehow) be much better than expected, and we could see an increase in ridership. That doesn't seem particularly likely, given the options listed, but it's possible. But even it's terrible, remember that back in 2009, when Amtrak first added the Diner-Lite to the LSL, there was so much pushback that they put the diner back pretty promptly.

So if "Fresh Choices" is terrible, and customers speak their mind like in 2009, it's possible that the diner returns. This is all hypothetical, but I would say it's within the realm of possibility.

 

[jis]

Then again the Silver Star never got its Diner back yet. . Nor did the Cardinal ever get beyond Diner Lite, and CONO stuck with whatever it is stuck with. So YMMV

 

[cpotisch]

Then again the Silver Star never got its Diner back yet. . Nor did the Cardinal ever get beyond Diner Lite, and CONO stuck with whatever it is stuck with. So YMMV

Again, possible, not likely.

 

[cpotisch]

Idea: Doesn't the FDA say that Amtrak can offer passengers access to a microwave, so long as it's for passengers only (didn't they have that on the Automats)? Because if that's the case, Amtrak could just stick one or two microwaves in the Sleeper Lounge, and allow passengers to heat up their food. This would mean that passengers could still have hot meals, without adding to the LSA's workload.

 

[Seaboard92]

I thought a funny protest would be someone packing a microwave with them for a trip cross country. And just eating a lot of microwaveable food as a protest

 

[Lonestar648]

The Dining Cars might not return, but maybe the "fresh" meal is enhanced without adding F&B crew. After hearing comments, maybe the SLC Lounge is somehow enhanced. I think what ever we see June 1st most likely is not what we will be seeing 60 - 90 days later.

 

[Manny T]

Checking out "small" appliances on Amazon, seems a "small" microwave oven weighs in at c. 23 lbs.

So theoretically next time I travel LSL, couldn't I just strap one to my collapsible wheelie cart, board my roomette with it, plug it in when I want to, and microwave my Lean Cuisine (or other) entrees for dinner?? This doesn't have to be a protest, Seaboard--just a matter of convenience and practicality (if permitted).

 

[seat38a]

If anyone actually takes a microwave oven with them aboard a train and cooks themselves food as a sign of protest, then ya'll really got too much time on your hands or your priorities in life are really out of whack.

And if you really can't live without a hot meal overnight and need to bring a microwave oven with you, then you've obviously INSERT SOMETHING REALLY REALLY

HERE.

This will be my last post regarding this topic. After 34 pages of posts, its obviously starting to degenerate into something borderline delusional. But do all continue posting because I'm still waiting for the one post where someone is going to threaten to hold their breadth in their roomettes to protest the cold meals.

 

[me_little_me]

Initially, I would expect the passenger count to be flat until people really hear what has happened, actual experience, before significant passengers find alternant transportation.

Right. The new meal service could (somehow) be much better than expected, and we could see an increase in ridership. That doesn't seem particularly likely, given the options listed, but it's possible. But even it's terrible, remember that back in 2009, when Amtrak first added the Diner-Lite to the LSL, there was so much pushback that they put the diner back pretty promptly.

So if "Fresh Choices" is terrible, and customers speak their mind like in 2009, it's possible that the diner returns. This is all hypothetical, but I would say it's within the realm of possibility.

Oh! No! Not another Diner -> Sleeper Lounge -> Diner remodel!

 

[railiner]

Idea: Doesn't the FDA say that Amtrak can offer passengers access to a microwave, so long as it's for passengers only (didn't they have that on the Automats)? Because if that's the case, Amtrak could just stick one or two microwaves in the Sleeper Lounge, and allow passengers to heat up their food. This would mean that passengers could still have hot meals, without adding to the LSA's workload.

"without adding to the LSA's workload"?

Have you ever seen a "self-service" microwave, such as in school or employee lounges?

Who do you think is going to clean it?

 

[cpotisch]

I thought a funny protest would be someone packing a microwave with them for a trip cross country. And just eating a lot of microwaveable food as a protest

I've always wanted to (as a joke) cook mac n' cheese on the train. Like I would get milk and butter from the dining car, and boil the pasta with hot water from the lounge car, etc. It would take forever and drive everyone else insane, but it would be awesome.