best ways for Amtrak to cut its operating losses?

[AmtrakBlue]

On the idea of selling open rooms at the last hours before departure; how can this work? How many of us wait until the last minute to make our travel plans? Even if we did, how does this guarantee that with this last minute booking method we can get a train back?

Some people don't need their travel plans written in stone. They just go with the flow.

 

[the Other Mike]

On the idea of selling open rooms at the last hours before departure; how can this work? How many of us wait until the last minute to make our travel plans? Even if we did, how does this guarantee that with this last minute booking method we can get a train back?

As I mentioned, this would mostly appeal to those who are retired or on disability that have the freedom from schedules. As far as getting a deal back ? Thats a crap shoot but possible. As I mentioned, it's just an idea. What's the use of mty rooms being hauled cross country ? No it doesn't solve the money issue but every little bit helps IMHO.

I wouldn't care where I went, to me it's more of an adventure

 

[jis]

Actually I have bought an open room on the Boston section of the LSL from BBY to ALB 30 mins before departure, twice, on two different circle trips NYP - BBY - ALB - NYP. Even got the lowest bucket both times. So never say that such is not done even without any special treatment specially on short hops. I have done so as a lark in Florida too on the Silvers for short rides, or NYP to RVR ad such.

 

[iggy]

They could install standup seating - which has been proposed by several airlines in the past few years. Most recently China's Spring Air - Tiger Airways and Ryanair chief executive Michael O'Leary have previously suggested or expressed interest in the concept for their planes.

No I'm not serious about this - but figured with the many other crazy ideas and many that border on ridiculous - along with the travel industry as a whole reducing customer service and quality - figured I'd add this to the mix.

The bean counters would love it - would increase capacity and you could offer an even cheaper ticket price.

Charging for toilets like some airports have done - was also mentioned as an option by Ryanair - even reducing the number of facilities. As dirty as some bathrooms can be on Amtrak routes and maintenance issues - may not be long before powers that be decide they aren't worth the hassle of keeping them.

 

[jis]

Well, at the risk of showing my ignorance:

Airlines USED to sell "stand by" tickets. I realize this might not be apporiate for most travelers, but to people like me, I'd love it.

If you like the serendipity of just showing up, and going wherever there is space available, you should get yourself a job (even part time) at an airline....than you could fly around wherever, and sometimes combine said travel with Amtrak travel....great once you are retired.....

While I am not aware of any US domestics explicitly selling standby tickets, they do allow you to stand by for an earlier flight should you wish to, in case you arrive early at the airport. This is used a lot by many business travelers, who book a safe flight and then should they arrive at the airport early because meeting ended early they put themselves on stand by on various earlier flights, whichever works out. So stand by does work out well for people who are very gainfully employed and far far away from retirement.
Of course when PeopleExpress used to sell open stand by back in the days, it was mostly students and tourists who seemed to avail of it, sometimes with absurd expectations of availability of seats, which were not met in reality. My SO used to work in a PE reservation center and I used to hear of all these stories of irate standby ticket holders all the time. That may very well be the reason that the practice of selling open stand by tickets was eventually discontinued. It also made Newark North Terminal look more like a slum with armies of stand bys awaiting their turn at a seat.

Of course airline non-revs are always stand by when not traveling on duty.

 

[neroden]

In regards to "buffet cars", I have heard a deafening lack of response as to how well they operated when they were operating. This has actually been *tried* -- didn't anyone ever ride a train when they were running? I'm just really curious.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

I did. They had an interesting model that worked well but the food was awful.

 

[jphjaxfl]

I traveled from Philadelphia to Miami in June, 1988 on the Silver Meteor. I had a roomette in a 10/6 car. They had a buffet car that was an old Pennsylvania double unit diner. The buffet was set up in kitchen area with some tables in that car and more tables in the other unit. The food was plated by the servers so it was not "help yourself". The food was filling , but not very good. The cars only operated as far south as Jacksonville. Only lounge cars with snacks, sandwiches and beverages south of Jacksonville. Didn't make a nice trip..

 

[neroden]

Huh. So buffet operations would probably work provided the food quality was kept high.

I wonder if it would actually have any operational cost savings (fewer servers) or not (people hogging tables).

 

[jimhudson]

I too rode on LD Trains with Buffet Cars and as was said, they worked well but still required staff (biggest expense for Amtrak on Trains) and the food was on par with a school cafeteria! (It sucked!)

Something that I thought worked well was the Lunch Counter Cafe on old Santa Fe Super Chief! Of course it was lighter farw but the food was good and affordable!

 

[mlhughes0522]

I think amtrak need to add more service a lot places NC amtrak RMT-CLB more each way, SAL-Asheville,nc CLT-ATL 1 or 2 more each way during the day only train CLT-ATL is the crescent, CLT-WAS 1more each way and Midwest like CHI -KCY 1 or 2 more each way.

Tennessee needs a lot more they need 2 lines 1- Memphis/Nashville Nashville to Asheville NC

ATL to sav 1 or 2 each way

 

[George Harris]

I think amtrak need to add more service a lot places NC amtrak RMT-CLB more each way, SAL-Asheville,nc CLT-ATL 1 or 2 more each way during the day only train CLT-ATL is the crescent, CLT-WAS 1more each way and Midwest like CHI -KCY 1 or 2 more each way.

Tennessee needs a lot more they need 2 lines 1- Memphis/Nashville Nashville to Asheville NC

ATL to sav 1 or 2 each way

Some of these are OK, but some are highly impractical.

Another train or two between Chicago and Kansas City might be good. A Minneapolis to Kansas City to Texas train with a shuffle of cars between it and the Southwest Chief at KC should do well. Routing north of KC via the old Rock Island via Des Moines, which is now UP. south of KC a couple of possibilities not sure which would be better. A day train Washington to Atlanta would be nice. A late night train out of the northeast to Atlanta that arrived in Charlotte at a reasonable hour in the morning with an opposite that had a more or less start of the business day arrival in New York should attract good ridership.

Memphis - Nashville, unfortunately none practical. The old direct route through Jackson TN has been abandoned, and at best took 5 hours. The good through day train died in 1957. Nashville to Asheville NC? direct route to Knoxville gone, and was slower than running through Chattanooga when it was there. Current likely best time would be around 10 hours plus for a trip that can be driven in 5.

Anything into Asheville would be for the sightseer tourist crowd only as the lines into Asheville, whether from North Carolina or Tennessee are both very slow, and the line up from the south through Spartanburg is out of service.

 

[mlhughes0522]

Thank you for some of ur thoughts I agree with some about Tennessee I was thinking just Tennessee hardly have any passenger train service only Memphis and one other station. I kindly disagree on ur statement on Asheville-Salisbury only tourists. Because i40 and us64 is alway busy the only closest train station Asheville,Morganton, Statesville is Salisbury.

Washington-Atlanta day service is needed

 

[me_little_me]

.

Anything into Asheville would be for the sightseer tourist crowd only as the lines into Asheville, whether from North Carolina or Tennessee are both very slow, and the line up from the south through Spartanburg is out of service.

NCDOT is still showing Asheville to Raleigh (via Salisbury from Charlotte) as a "future". Some stations have been completed along the route.

 

[mlhughes0522]

Sample schedule of the add service

NC Amtrak RMT-SC

93. 92 91 96.

RMT 7:00a 10:15a 7:29p. 9:50p

WLN 7:20a ------- ------ 9:32p

SSM 7:50a ------- ------ 9:12p

RGH 8:20a 8:54a 9:13p. 8:30p

CYN 8:32a 8:15a 9:27p. 8:10p

SOP 9:45a 7:06a10:39p 7:00p

HAM 10:33a 6:29a11:21p 6:20p

CAM 12:05p 4:49a12:50a.4:40p

CLB 2:00p 4:08a 1:44a. 4:00p

Nc amtrak Piedmont/Carolinian

71. 73. 75. 77. 79. 81

RGH 6:30a 8:30a11:30a 2:00p 4:50p 7:00p

CYN 6:42a 8:42a11:42a.2:12p 5:03p 7:42p

DNC 7:02a 9:02a12:02p2:32p 5:25p 8:02p

BNC 7:40a 9:40a12:40p3:12p 6:01p 8:40p

GRO 8:02a10:02a 1:02p3:32p 6:32p 9:02p

HPT 8:22a10:22a 1:22p3:50p 6:50p 9:22p

SAL. 8:54a10:54a 1:54p4:22p 7:22p 9:54p

KAN 9:10a11:10a 2:10p4:38p 7:40p 10:10p

CLT 9:35a11:35a 2:35p5:05p 8:10p 10:35p

80. 72. 74. 76. 78. 82

CLT 7:00a10:00a12:00p3:00p5:30p 7:30p

KAN 7:25a10:25a12:25p3:25p5:55p 7:55p

SAL 7:43a 10:41a12:41p3:41p6:11p.8:11p

HPT 8:17a 10:14a 1:14p4:14p 6:34p 8:34p

GRO8:39a 10:34a 1:34p4:34p.6:54p 8:54p

BNC 9:01a10:56a 1:56p4:56p7:15p 9:15p

DNC 9:40a11:34a 2:34p4:34p7:53p 9:53p

CYN10:02a11:55a2:54p4:54p8:13p 10:13p

RGH10:20a12:10a3:10p5:10p8:30p.10:30p

Amtrak Was-CLT

Crescent/Peach 19. 20. 23. 24.

Washington, DC* 6:30 pm. 10:00a ar 7:00a 8:20p

Alexandria, VA* 6:49 pm. 9:32a. 7:20a 7:40p

Manassas, VA 7:22 pm. 8:34a. 7:53a 7:00p

Culpeper, VA 7:55 pm. 8:01a. 8:18a 6:25p

Charlottesville, VA* 8:52 pm. 7:06a. 9:10a 5:35p

Lynchburg, VA* 10:06 pm. 5:56a. 10:30a 4:20p

Danville, VA 11:14 pm. 4:43a. 11:38a 3:04p

Greensboro, NC* 12:22 am. 3:44a 12:38p 2:04p

High Point, NC 12:31 am. 3:16a. 12:58p 1:44p

Salisbury, NC 1:17 am. 2:32a. 1:30p. 1:11p

Kannapolis, NC. ------------------- 1:46p. 12:55p

Charlotte, NC* 2:45 am. 1:46pm 2:25p.12:30p

Gastonia, NC 3:12 am. 12:39pm 3:00p11:40a

Spartanburg, SC 4:14 am. 11:39p. 4:00p10:40a

Greenville, SC 5:01 am. 10:58pm 4:45p10:00a

Clemson, SC 5:39 am. 10:16 pm5:25p 9:20a

Toccoa, GA 6:15 am. 9:40 pm 6:00p 8:45a

Gainesville, GA 6:58 am. 8:59 pm 6:45p 8:00a

Atlanta, GA*. 6:15 am 8:04 pm 8:15p 7:00a

Peach train sets eng bag/cafe coach coach coach coach

SW chief/little chief 3. 4. 33 34

CHICAGO,IL 3:00p. 3:15p 6:25a. 10:30p

NAPERVILLE,IL. 3:35p 2:42p 7:00a. 9:53p

PLANO,IL. ---------------- 7:23a. 9:30p

MENDOTA,IL. 4:24p. 1:19p7:50a. 8:55p

PRINCETON,IL. 4:46p. 12:58p8:11a. 8:34p

KEWANEE,IL. ---------------- 8:33a. 8:12p

GALESBURG,IL. 5:38p. 12:08p. 9:15a 7:30p

FORT MADISON,IA. 6:42p. 11:09a10:15a. 6:30p

LA PLATA,mo 7:51p. 9:55a.11:25a. 5:20p

Kansas City, MO 10:11p. 7:43a 1:45p. 3:00p

Little chief train set- eng bus/cafe coach coach coach coach eng

 

[SarahZ]

Little Chief I like that name.

 

[jis]

How are we planning to slash two hours in running time between Washington DC and Atlanta?

 

[trainaddict]

Some time ago I posted to this blog a post entitled:

"Amtrak: Fixing a Broken System: A Guide"

At the time many of my points were laughed at, scoffed at, or ridiculed…or worse.

Now here we are years later, and people are coming around to many of the very points I made at that time.

I encourage all those concerned to reread my earlier blog post to get some background on what Amtrack needs to do.

Remember that any business must keep two things in mind: 1) the workers 2) the customers 3) the administration 4) infrastructure 5) etc.

When I took Amtrak it was late. Not just slightly late, severely late. There's an old saying:

And I quote:

"YOU NEVER GET A SECOND CHANCE TO MAKE A FIRST IMPRESSION. NOT ONCE. NOT TWICE. NEVER AGAIN."

Amtrak should keep this in mind when they have their "meetings".

 

[Ryan]

It was two months ago, and your post was derided because it was completely impractical.

http://discuss.amtraktrains.com/index.php?/topic/58160-amtrak-fixing-a-broken-system-a-guide/&do=findComment&comment=495356

Also, it's "Amtrak". Not "Amtrack".

You were also instructed in the difference between a forum and a blog.

BLOG: A blog is like an online diary than anybody can read and leave comments on. Although there are a lot people who use blogs for this purpose, most people who do make blogs usually discuss events or issues that have affected them. There are multitudes of blogs that discuss about politics, religion, and current events. Some blogs become very popular that some people are already following what the owner would say next.

FORUM (which is what Amtrak Unlimited is): A forum was once called a bulletin board due to the manner in which users say what they say. Each users comment can be placed in the thread that he wants it in and the thread appears to be a conversation, albeit a very long one, that could last a up to a few months or even years. Forums are usually niche specific so that likeminded people gather around the forums that they are most drawn to. There are forums that talk about computer technology, about motorcycles, even pets. There is probably a forum for every niche that there is. A forum needs to have a moderator who would be responsible for keeping the peace and ensuring that everyone follows the rules; especially because forums can often spark verbal fights called flame wars due to the very heated arguments.

http://www.differencebetween.net/technology/difference-between-forum-and-blog/

You also claimed that you were going to call Congress and open an investigation into me. Sadly, nobody has contacted me yet, but I look forward to meeting with some Congresspeople to explain to them why I was a big meanie on the internet.

http://discuss.amtraktrains.com/index.php?/topic/57827-i-want-a-refund/?p=490199

That was also tied into your refusal to believe that this site wasn't operated by Amtrak and we weren't all Amtrak employees.

You've got a long road ahead of you if you want your ideas to be considered seriously.

 

[TVRM610]

Anything into Asheville would be for the sightseer tourist crowd only as the lines into Asheville, whether from North Carolina or Tennessee are both very slow, and the line up from the south through Spartanburg is out of service.

"Very slow" is a bit of an exaggeration. Both are mainline railroads in excellent condition. Just some curvy turrain. Slower than 79 for sure... But plenty of 40-50 running. Similar to the Crescent in Alabama.

 

[7deuceman]

Can Amtrak negotiate a more favorable cost structure for the use of the Host Railroads?



The cargo-carrying railroads do no longer have to go through the motions of handling passengers as they did many years ago. They've been able to build formidable systems and develop clients based upon efficiency and fortifying infrastructure. If my history serves me, the goverment was helpful in the development of railroads throughout the industrial revolution and in the 20th century. I've noted that Host Railroads especially in the past 25 years have been very innovative with clients and quite passionate about serving them.

(Referring to the thread which discusses the "Pennsylvanian" service and the new switch proposal at Pittsburgh.

I thought that I read that the current cost of switching a car is about $1800. I wonder out loud if such a charge is extravagant for the service provided. To me that price seems high, but I have no operational experience in railroading. However, it appears that crews/equipment are readily available and helping Amtrak save some money on a car switching could be doable.)

My questions are: is there a way that goverment agencies can help Amtrak, and Host Railroads negotiate better pricing that enables everyone to benefit? Can a strategic partnership be created to better serve American rail passengers who rely on dependable, timely rail services?

My apologies if my points are elementary but I had to ask these questions.

 

[Trogdor]

Amtrak already pays so relatively little to access the railroad network, there is no way that number could go lower. Doing so would only make Amtrak even less worth it to the host railroads than Amtrak already is.

 

[neroden]

Amtrak probably pays more to the Class Is for track access than a freight shortline or regional would pay to run their own trains using track access.

Of course, Amtrak demands better on time performance.

The real problem is that the host railroads *will not* provide timely service. They don't provide timely service to freight customers either -- just try asking, I've heard stories about this -- so how can you expect them to provide (even more) timely service to the passenger customers? The Class Is have a business model which is willing to do a lot for customers, but is *not* willing to guarantee on-time delivery. And since that's what Amtrak needs...

 

[trainaddict]

It was two months ago, and your post was derided because it was completely impractical.

http://discuss.amtraktrains.com/index.php?/topic/58160-amtrak-fixing-a-broken-system-a-guide/&do=findComment&comment=495356

Also, it's "Amtrak". Not "Amtrack".

You were also instructed in the difference between a forum and a blog.

BLOG: A blog is like an online diary than anybody can read and leave comments on. Although there are a lot people who use blogs for this purpose, most people who do make blogs usually discuss events or issues that have affected them. There are multitudes of blogs that discuss about politics, religion, and current events. Some blogs become very popular that some people are already following what the owner would say next.

FORUM (which is what Amtrak Unlimited is): A forum was once called a bulletin board due to the manner in which users say what they say. Each users comment can be placed in the thread that he wants it in and the thread appears to be a conversation, albeit a very long one, that could last a up to a few months or even years. Forums are usually niche specific so that likeminded people gather around the forums that they are most drawn to. There are forums that talk about computer technology, about motorcycles, even pets. There is probably a forum for every niche that there is. A forum needs to have a moderator who would be responsible for keeping the peace and ensuring that everyone follows the rules; especially because forums can often spark verbal fights called flame wars due to the very heated arguments.

http://www.differencebetween.net/technology/difference-between-forum-and-blog/

You also claimed that you were going to call Congress and open an investigation into me. Sadly, nobody has contacted me yet, but I look forward to meeting with some Congresspeople to explain to them why I was a big meanie on the internet.

http://discuss.amtraktrains.com/index.php?/topic/57827-i-want-a-refund/?p=490199

That was also tied into your refusal to believe that this site wasn't operated by Amtrak and we weren't all Amtrak employees.

You've got a long road ahead of you if you want your ideas to be considered seriously.

Living in the past is not a way to improve passenger rail.

Neither is going after me.

There is an old saying here in Virginia, and I do quote:

"If you don't have anything nice to say, try, try again."

Also if you think the government is coming after you, then Amtrak has even bigger problems than what I thought.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

:eyeroll: