Brightline Trains Florida discussion

[Brian_tampa]

Many thanks!

Is there any update on the seat count for the new cars (since IIRC the three existing coaches have slight differences in configuration...it's something like 56, 64, and 66 IIRC)?

Also, I don't see any trains with the extra seats loaded in tomorrow...but the idea that they haven't loaded those in just yet isn't shocking. However, I am seeing some stunning fares (over $100 o/w in Premium WPB-MIA).

If you are referring to the new cars to be delivered in 2024 and 2025, then to meet the 372 seat count mentioned in the bond memorandum it would have to be the 66 seat configuration. I believe the Smart coach is 66 seats.

As far as tomorrow's trains, that is info I was told on Sunday. I'm not sure how fast it will translate to their website. Someone on the ground in South Florida will have to verify if the 5 car trainsets actually ran.

 

[railiner]

. However, I am seeing some stunning fares (over $100 o/w in Premium WPB-MIA).

Ouch!
Think I’ll stick with Tri Rail…

 

[Brian_tampa]

this is a video of the 2 five car trainsets on their way to WPB from Orlando on Saturday night

 

[jiml]

As an interested observer just returned from 6 weeks in Florida, I was surprised what a talking point Brightline developments are there - even in places the service will never reach. It must be the media coverage but the comments were all positive, with people talking about driving just to ride the train as if it were a tourist attraction. Also surprised how many think it is actual High Speed Rail, although perhaps understandable given the comparison.

 

[jis]

As an interested observer just returned from 6 weeks in Florida, I was surprised what a talking point Brightline developments are there - even in places the service will never reach. It must be the media coverage but the comments were all positive, with people talking about driving just to ride the train as if it were a tourist attraction. Also surprised how many think it is actual High Speed Rail, although perhaps understandable given the comparison.

Any speed is high speed compared to zero speed I suppose

 

[cirdan]

However, I am seeing some stunning fares (over $100 o/w in Premium WPB-MIA).

I wonder if the market is able to actually bear such prices (which would be good for Brightline's balance sheet) or whether this is just some database hack to keep certain seats unsold for whatever reason (such as being able to sell them closer to the date)

 

[cirdan]

Yes IIRC it is 10 though in the near future the target is to grow to 7 IIRC.

do you know if the plans for cafeteria cars are still on the table, or are they planning to cover catering needs entirely through at-seat service?

As much as I would like to see a cafeteria car, if it is revenue they are pursuing it would make more sense to drop this in favor of seats they can sell.

 

[cirdan]

We expect to operate eight trainsets in regular operations, leaving one spare trainset available for private charter service or redundancy and one trainset to accommodate for shop rotation time

I'm surprised at the mention of private charter.
A set that is earmarked for private charter can no longer simultaneously be held as a spare set to cover for unexpected shortages or failures.

I also wonder whether there is sufficient demand for charters that this would justify the costs of having an extra set just for that purpose. As such charters are typically booked long in advance, it would be risky for Brightline to commit and then hope the train will not be needed elsewhere on the day.

If we were talking about using second hand equipment, this would be a different story.

I do believe FEC actually has some varnish for corporate entertainment and such. Maybe this would be more suited to executive charters?

 

[jis]

do you know if the plans for cafeteria cars are still on the table, or are they planning to cover catering needs entirely through at-seat service?

Nothing about OBS details in anything that they have published, so I have no idea. Maybe @Brian_tampa has heard something that he can share. I have not talked to anyone at Brightline for at least six months now.

I do believe FEC actually has some varnish for corporate entertainment and such. Maybe this would be more suited to executive charters?

What FECR own is theirs and not automatically available for Brightline's use for anything. They are completely separate companies. I don't believe Brightline has any plans of operating any equipment that they do not own in any commercial venture.

Remember - FECR is a subsidiary of Grupo Mexico, while Brightline is a subsidiary (indirectly) of SoftBank, though last I hear SoftBank is trying to sell off its Fortress Group holdings..

 

[Bob Dylan]

Or the famous "Roll in Roll out" untouched method of maintenance.

AKA, "The Chicago Way!"

 

[Brian_tampa]

Nothing about OBS details in anything that they have published, so I have no idea. Maybe @Brian_tampa has heard something that he can share. I have not talked to anyone at Brightline for at least six months now.

What FECR own is theirs and not automatically available for Brightline's use for anything. They are completely separate companies. I don't believe Brightline has any plans of operating any equipment that they do not own in any commercial venture.

As far as I have read and heard there are no immediate plans to build Cafe cars. Brightline does have a design for the car to build them if they eventually decide to add them.

 

[Anderson]

I wonder if the market is able to actually bear such prices (which would be good for Brightline's balance sheet) or whether this is just some database hack to keep certain seats unsold for whatever reason (such as being able to sell them closer to the date)

Well, these are same-day tix, so "keeping space free for later sale" seems unlikely.

 

[MARC Rider]

As an interested observer just returned from 6 weeks in Florida, I was surprised what a talking point Brightline developments are there - even in places the service will never reach. It must be the media coverage but the comments were all positive, with people talking about driving just to ride the train as if it were a tourist attraction. Also surprised how many think it is actual High Speed Rail, although perhaps understandable given the comparison.

Given the traffic on the roads in the Miami area, a rail velocipede would be high speed rail in comparison!

 

[crescent-zephyr]

I've ridden Brightline a few times this year. A few notes.
- They need a quiet car. Little kids are loud enough but having a group of Miami Party girls face-timing their friends was pretty annoying.
- I'm not sure why they have 2 people for the cart service? I'm not entirely sure why they even have the cart service since they have the bar and the markets in the station for grab-n-go. The train seems very over-staffed. I saw 4 employees on the train.
- One set of doors was not working, but no announcement was made. When passengers waited for those doors to open one of the employees yelled from one end of the car "you get off up here" - how were they supposed to know that?

I can't wait for the service to Orlando - I transferred from Brightline to FLIX Bus to get to Orlando last week.

 

[cirdan]

- I'm not sure why they have 2 people for the cart service? I'm not entirely sure why they even have the cart service since they have the bar and the markets in the station for grab-n-go. The train seems very over-staffed. I saw 4 employees on the train.

I'm just guessing here, but it could be that as the service is still ramping up and expanding, that quite a lot of the staff are still trainees and that they are working alongside more experienced staff for teaching and supervision. If my theory is correct, this should reduce over time.

Also, as the service is still relatively new, there will still be a high proportion of first-time riders, who may need slightly more guidance and stewarding than seasoned regulars. Again, if this is the reason, it should level off over time.

 

[jis]

I'm just guessing here, but it could be that as the service is still ramping up and expanding, that quite a lot of the staff are still trainees and that they are working alongside more experienced staff for teaching and supervision. If my theory is correct, this should reduce over time.

Also, as the service is still relatively new, there will still be a high proportion of first-time riders, who may need slightly more guidance and stewarding than seasoned regulars. Again, if this is the reason, it should level off over time.

Since Brightline is run by Hospitality people at the helm I suspect Brightline trains will always have more OBS staff than your typical Amtrak train run by essentially anti-Hospitality people. For example in the airline industry see the OBS staff level on an Emirates or Singapore Airlines flight compared to your typical US airlines.

 

[Anderson]

I'm just guessing here, but it could be that as the service is still ramping up and expanding, that quite a lot of the staff are still trainees and that they are working alongside more experienced staff for teaching and supervision. If my theory is correct, this should reduce over time.

Also, as the service is still relatively new, there will still be a high proportion of first-time riders, who may need slightly more guidance and stewarding than seasoned regulars. Again, if this is the reason, it should level off over time.

I've ridden Brightline a few times this year. A few notes.
- They need a quiet car. Little kids are loud enough but having a group of Miami Party girls face-timing their friends was pretty annoying.
- I'm not sure why they have 2 people for the cart service? I'm not entirely sure why they even have the cart service since they have the bar and the markets in the station for grab-n-go. The train seems very over-staffed. I saw 4 employees on the train.
- One set of doors was not working, but no announcement was made. When passengers waited for those doors to open one of the employees yelled from one end of the car "you get off up here" - how were they supposed to know that?

I can't wait for the service to Orlando - I transferred from Brightline to FLIX Bus to get to Orlando last week.

Attacking both of these at once:
(1) I agree on the Quiet Car. Right now the issue is that that's about 1/3 of Coach. Get up to 6-7 cars (so, 5-6 coach cars) and marking one off as "Quiet" gets easier.
(2) Bear in mind that in a few months the service will be to Orlando, not just to Palm Beach, and will likely have one to two additional cars before too long. One attendant for 2-3 coaches (with no cafe) feels about right, especially if one of those attendants helps out with a meal service in Premium (presuming they do a "full" meal over the WBP-MCO segment), and one attendant trying to cover five coaches might be a bit much (the Amtrak cafe car gets a little swamped at times, after all...). But even if they're planning to "only" have one cart service person on each train, the fact is that they're going to be running close to twice as many train-hours per day soon...so they do need to train more staff sooner rather than later.

 

[Qapla]

It's interesting that many seem to feel Amtrak is understaffed and now seem to feel Brightline is overstaffed - maybe we are just so used to how understaffed looks that we see "good service and staffing" as too much instead of just sitting back and enjoying the good service.

 

[cirdan]

Since Brightline is run by Hospitality people at the helm I suspect Brightline trains will always have more OBS staff than your typical Amtrak train run by essentially anti-Hospitality people. For example in the airline industry see the OBS staff level on an Emirates or Singapore Airlines flight compared to your typical US airlines.

I don't know if hospitality bosses necessarily believe there should be more staff on the job.

Most modern hotel chains, for example, with the exception of the very high-end ones, are minimally staffed these days.

There probably isn't an industry in the world that is yet untouched by the relentless drive to improve staff productivity, which is code for for finding ways that fewer people can serve more customers.

 

[jis]

I don't know if hospitality bosses necessarily believe there should be more staff on the job.

Most modern hotel chains, for example, with the exception of the very high-end ones, are minimally staffed these days.

There probably isn't an industry in the world that is yet untouched by the relentless drive to improve staff productivity, which is code for for finding ways that fewer people can serve more customers.

I have met and talked to Patrick Goddard. I can only share my actual impressions garnered from talking to the man running the show rather than talk about abstract hospitality bosses.

 

[jis]

MODERATOR'S NOTE: A whole bunch of posts discussing old time grocery and liquor shopping protocols which has nothing to do with Brightline, have been moved to their own thread:

https://www.amtraktrains.com/threads/the-grocery-and-liquor-shopping-discussion.84756/
Please continue that discussion in this new thread.

Thank you for your understanding, cooperation and participation.

 

[ManganeseFrog]

It looks like a new schedule is starting April 10th. For a little while that date forward was unbookable but is now available again.

Service starts about 30 minutes later with, most notably, all trains stopping at Aventura.

I found the SB schedule to be a little odd with as little as 13 minutes between departures.

 

[joelkfla]

It looks like a new schedule is starting April 10th. For a little while that date forward was unbookable but is now available again.

Service starts about 30 minutes later with, most notably, all trains stopping at Aventura.

I found the SB schedule to be a little odd with as little as 13 minutes between departures.

I guess the Aventura station is proving to be very popular.

 

[jis]

Brightline is now running a couple of trains with 5 cars.

 

[Qapla]

Brightline Construction: Winter Beach to Gifford Cutover - February 2022