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According to David Shelley (longtime FEC hogger) on the FEC Yahoo Group, AAF sent a work train from West Palm Beach to Hialeah to take rails north. The train number was AF1-07.

I guess that may answer the question about whether the road closures involved adding a second (third?*) track.

*I believe the Fort Lauderdale and West Palm Beach stations will be triple tracked, so freight trains can bypass the high level platforms.
 


Not my video. Apparently the rear of the train is part of the AAF work train. Did see part of it blocking the Banyan Street crossing this afternoon. They dropped off a section of track next to Hibiscus Street for what I assume will become the second main line.
 
Out of curiosity, does anyone recall if the FEC ROW is wide enough to be mostly quad-tracked? I know there was double-tracking on most of it and I know Flagler was pretty good at planning for capacity needs, but there was enough variation in practice that I can't recall if they kept enough space to quad-track Miami-West Palm Beach (which is going to be necessary if you get tons of AAF trains running alongside a Tri-Rail operation).
 
Current plans are for three tracks, not four. Three tracks with passing sidings at major stations should be quite sufficient with an adequately capable signaling system and some judicious time tabling, for running 16tph in each direction with a few freights mixed in during low traffic hours. A time when more throughput than that would be required is quite far away by all reckoning, specially if 10 or 12 car trains are used.

Just to provide some perspective for the time being AAF is talking of between 1 and 2 tph. Tri Rail at most might throw in 4tph only during the max rush hour. FEC freight traffic is less than 1tph.
 
I read where FEC plans to run freights over the Tri Rail line (formally CSX ) up to West Palm Beach. Are there any plans, stated or otherwise, for FEC to partner with CSX to route freight to the CSX terminal at Winter Haven?
 
I read where FEC plans to run freights over the Tri Rail line (formally CSX ) up to West Palm Beach. Are there any plans, stated or otherwise, for FEC to partner with CSX to route freight to the CSX terminal at Winter Haven?
Florida East Coast has no need to run freight trains on the CSX and I doubt very seriously CSX would allow that as they are fierce competitors. I have friends that work for both Railroads here in Jacksonville and they had a good laugh about running over each others lines.
 
Furthermore, I think the bottleneck to more capacity is not necessarily going to be the line itself but the terminus at Miami.

If FEC and TriRail get two station tracks in Miami each as is currently planned, that puts a cap on the number of trains you can turn in an hour.

I don't know if FEC are planning to clean and re-stock trains while standing in the station (which would block them there for a while, and prevent other trains from using that track) or run them to some nearby facility (which would further comsume track capacity) but either way you're not going to be turning trains very quickly.

Maybe Trirail can turn trains more quickly as they do not need to be cleaned or re-stocked after every turn. But even so you need some buffer in the waiting time to recover from delays etc. You also need some place you can hold a train that is failed, damaged or otherwise unfit for service.
 
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I believe the current plan is for Tri-Rail to run every other train to downtown. So about every hour during rush hour and every two hours during off peak/weekend. Not ideal, but better than nothing.
 
What is all this chatter about Tri Rail running on FEC nonsense? The CSX tracks are, on average, about 1 mile apart from the FEC tracks and run parallel almost the entire distance from WPB to Miami. There are no connections between the CSX tracks and the FEC. Why would Tri Rail want to build redundant facilities?

The entire beauty of AAF is that A) It isn't Amtrak and B) It isn't Tri Rail.
 
What is all this chatter about Tri Rail running on FEC nonsense? The CSX tracks are, on average, about 1 mile apart from the FEC tracks and run parallel almost the entire distance from WPB to Miami. There are no connections between the CSX tracks and the FEC. Why would Tri Rail want to build redundant facilities?

The entire beauty of AAF is that A) It isn't Amtrak and B) It isn't Tri Rail.
Nonsense? It's not fantasy. Take a look:

http://tri-railcoastallink.com/

or

http://www.tri-railcoastallinkstudy.com/about.php

And there IS a planned connection between the current Tri Rail ROW and the FEC at Iris interlocking.
 
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The Northwood connection in West Palm Beach is set to get upgraded later this year. This will mainly be for freight but could potentially allow Tri-Rail to serve Jupiter and maybe beyond (where CSX doesn't come close). The Iris crossover will have a connection for freight and Tri-Rail. Right now downtown Miami is a 30+ minute metrorail ride from Tri-Rail. It makes a whole lot of sense for commuter trains to go downtown (where most people work).

As far as AAF construction, work is under way for the second track in downtown West Palm Beach. Interestingly, it will be on the east side of the existing FEC rails. Right now there is a siding that starts just north of downtown, but that is on the west side of the main line.
 
The only good thing about the current Tri-Rail route is that it's close to the 3 major airports in S. Florida (though the FEC route is close to FLL). There is TOD around Boca and Cypress Creek stations, but outside of that there is a lot more to gain using the FEC line.

A couple of years ago when the federal grants were announced for the Northwood and Iris connections, I read that the FEC would use the Tri-Rail tracks (no longer CSX, they don't even dispatch it anymore) so Tri-Rail could use the FEC tracks. Not a bad idea.
 
What is all this chatter about Tri Rail running on FEC nonsense? The CSX tracks are, on average, about 1 mile apart from the FEC tracks and run parallel almost the entire distance from WPB to Miami. There are no connections between the CSX tracks and the FEC. Why would Tri Rail want to build redundant facilities?

The entire beauty of AAF is that A) It isn't Amtrak and B) It isn't Tri Rail.
Nonsense? It's not fantasy. Take a look:

http://tri-railcoastallink.com/

or

http://www.tri-railcoastallinkstudy.com/about.php

And there IS a planned connection between the current Tri Rail ROW and the FEC at Iris interlocking.
Yes, there are definite plans for (a) running TriRail trains from the current TriRail line to Miami Central Station, and (b) in the future, run TriRail service on FEC between Miami Central and West Palm Beach (at least, and perhaps further north too. S

o no, it is not nonsense. Just ignorance on the part of a few. ;)
 
Maybe Trirail can turn trains more quickly as they do not need to be cleaned or re-stocked after every turn. But even so you need some buffer in the waiting time to recover from delays etc. You also need some place you can hold a train that is failed, damaged or otherwise unfit for service.
When planning the ARC stub end station under 34th St, NJT used 10 minutes as the time needed to turn a train and get it out of there in rush hours to hit the 24tph figure. many of the turned trains would have gone out empty so that turnaround could be even shorter than 10 mins. But on an average they assumed 10 mins. That would be 6 per platform track, or 12 tph in case of Miami Central for TriRail.
 
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If anyone is interested, I've been trying to document some of the major construction milestones for AAF in Palm Beach County. I work very close to the future station site, so I'm pretty much at ground zero. Before I went into work this morning, they started tearing up Hibiscus Street. When I left work, they had the second track installed. I'll try to post a video that has a few short clips of the construction work, probably by Wednesday.

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.1176011182414062.1073741835.100000155733512&type=1&l=f3fe4ef9d7
 
@chrsjrcj

I believe that the new track is actually the freight bypass track to be installed east of the new platform. It makes sense to install this first as that clears the original track for long closure periods while the platform and station are being built. There is plenty of room west of the existing track to accommodate the new mainline track. Like you mentioned, the siding north of downtown is west of the existing track. It appears the original second track was in this alignment as well. I believe the AAF website (or was it the city of WPB?) has posted detailed general arrangement drawings showing the relative placement of structures, roads, and tracks in the ROW near the WPB station.

Or I could be wrong and the freight bypass track is much shorter than I thought and not part of the construction pictured. Not sure why AAF wouldn't install both new tracks at the same time? Maybe two short closures approved versus a longer one that the city wasn't agreeable with is why?

As was posted before, I too am also looking forward to how okeechobee blvd is handled! What a nightmare that will be!

By the way, I work in Boynton beach near the tracks on a project there and was told by AAF recently that double tracking in that area would commence around July.

Definitely keep the photos coming! I haven't been up in downtown WPB in several weeks and already there is a lot of construction that wasn't there just 3 weeks ago.
 
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AAF's website has the station renderings. http://www.allaboardflorida.com/stations/west-palm-beach

If that image is still correct, it's 3 tracks (two station tracks plus the freight bypass) at least just before Fern Street. I guess we'll see next week if Gardenia Street has 3 or 2 tracks. I was driving over 3rd Street (last crossing in downtown heading north) on Sunday, and noticed that some shrubs had been cleared out on the far eastern side of the FEC ROW. I almost wonder if they're doing a track realignment for that curve. I'll try to get a better look tomorrow. Time will tell I guess.
 
AAF's website has the station renderings. http://www.allaboardflorida.com/stations/west-palm-beach

If that image is still correct, it's 3 tracks (two station tracks plus the freight bypass) at least just before Fern Street. I guess we'll see next week if Gardenia Street has 3 or 2 tracks. I was driving over 3rd Street (last crossing in downtown heading north) on Sunday, and noticed that some shrubs had been cleared out on the far eastern side of the FEC ROW. I almost wonder if they're doing a track realignment for that curve. I'll try to get a better look tomorrow. Time will tell I guess.
That's an interesting rendering. A really good find!

It is also interesting that the explanatory text mentions Flageler's vision. It's good to see corporations show awareness of their history.

I wonder how many original Flageler-era station buildings survive, and whether there is any possibility that any will be restored to their intended use rather than being replace dby new builds.
 
I believe the current plan is for Tri-Rail to run every other train to downtown. So about every hour during rush hour and every two hours during off peak/weekend. Not ideal, but better than nothing.
My understanding is that Tri-Rail intends to set up a more complicated tangle of service...but (per mentions of doubling ridership or more abound) you'd add a lot of trains to the mix. About half of the trains originating up in Magonia Park or thereabouts would run to downtown, but there's another "line" that originates at Pompano that would also run on the current tracks. Additionally, those trains being redirected into downtown are on a third "line" originating further north (up in Jupiter), which probably means a few more trains there as well. And all of this is aside from the FEC-only trains running from WPB down to Miami.

If the ridership projections in the 2011 report are anything to go by, what you have is as follows:

-FEC Local (Magonia Park to Downtown) 4 TPH peak/2 TPH off-peak

-Seaboard Flyer (present service) 1 TPH peak/1 train every two hours off-peak

-Flagler Flyer (Jupiter to Downtown) 4 TPH peak/2 TPH off-peak

-Airport Flyer (the Pompano-originating service) 4 TPH peak/2 TPH off-peak

So in total, downtown would see 8 TPH peak/4 TPH off-peak while the airport would see 5 and 2.5. If the plan were to stick, it seems quite plausible that FEC would push to add Pompano to their system (at a bare minimum, since that station would serve all three high-frequency lines and be sending out Tri-Rail trains every 5 minutes at peaks...the transfer ridership from the Airport Flyer and the local stopping trains would probably be substantial), especially since AAF wants to reserve the right to add stops in South Florida. Considering the sheer amount of time the trains will take from end-to-end compared to AAF, I suspect that you'll see a lot of transfer traffic feeding in...particularly around WPB.

===== ===== ===== ===== =====

On train counts, those TPH numbers would probably work for Tri-Rail. With AAF, a lot depends on where they handle the servicing. Also, while AAF is saying "hourly service", if their numbers are any indication there are strong hints of planning for up to four AAF trains per hour: First, their ridership projections don't quite work with once-an-hour service (I ran the numbers a while back and you couldn't jam enough people onto their trains for the numbers to fit, especially south of WPB). Second, they've explicitly wanted to plan with Tri-Rail for up to 64 trains per day. Third/finally, they seem strongly inclined towards adding Jacksonville in reasonable order (doing so is probably cheaper than Orlando is, even if ridership is lower) and adding JAX would inherently add pax (yeah, I couldn't resist)...and with it, more trains.

So my guess is that, assuming all of this holds, AAF+Tri-Rail would probably be looking at 10-12 total TPH into Miami Central Station down the line. Tri-Rail's 8 TPH should be fine on two tracks as long as the track layout works well to avoid bottlenecks into/out of the station (I'll grant them this much). AAF is the more complicated customer, depending on how AAF wants to handle restocking and how long they want to be able to have the train in the station for people to board in advance. Additionally, if they service the trains elsewhere, that means additional movements in and out of the station.

However, I suspect this much traffic is probably going to mean that a few stations (Pompano comes to mind) will need to go to 5 tracks (I'm thinking two north, two south, and one through track without a platform for freight). I don't think you'd need more anywhere but Pompano (where the turns of the Airport Flyer become an issue...there you have 8 Tri-Rail trains running through, 4 terminating and turning, and then AAF doing...whatever AAF chooses to).

Edit: There appears to be a third connector track in Miami in the plans, albeit without much stated use...so it is quite possible that another "line" might come into use (probably Magonia-Downtown via CSX almost all the way).
 
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If successful, both ridership and financially, what would be the likelihood of AAF taking over Tri-Rail operations?
 
If successful, both ridership and financially, what would be the likelihood of AAF taking over Tri-Rail operations?
Very low to none. At least that is the impression I got talking to the AAF folks the last time I talked to them. They really do not want to be in the business of running anything other than their own higher speed service(s).
 
If successful, both ridership and financially, what would be the likelihood of AAF taking over Tri-Rail operations?
Very low to none. At least that is the impression I got talking to the AAF folks the last time I talked to them. They really do not want to be in the business of running anything other than their own higher speed service(s).
This is my feeling as well. This isn't to say that you might not see some interlining deals of some kind or another, but the management would probably be separate.

AAF adding 2-3 more stations in South Florida doesn't mean they're going to magically be running commuter trains (and neither does it mean that all trains will make all stops). Moreover, Tri-Rail will likely be priced below profitability for political reasons (expect a running clash over fares between them...Tri-Rail tried to get AAF to agree to lock their lowest fares to a multiple of Tri-Rail's fares, and AAF will probably want the opposite).
 
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Basically TriRail will set fares that politics can bear, whereas AAF will set fares that market will bear while covering their costs and hopefully making a decent return.
If (as has repeatdely been stated) AAF operations are just a lever to improve the performance of FEC's real estate portfolio, then surely having Tri-Rail share the Miami terminus (and maybe in future other sites too) is just an additional leverage in bringing in additional clients and hence boosting the value of said real estate portfolio. And seeing that in contrast to AAF, TriRail is not costing FEC anything, it's ultimately the more attractive half of the proposition.

Although maybe on the other hand AAF clients are a richer demographic, and hence more likely to spend big dollars while waiting for their train. Only time can tell.
 
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