Brightline Trains Florida discussion

[cirdan]

He will be fully occupied trying to get Phase II done. There are still some significant political challenges to overcome.

Do you believe Phase II is now a question of when it will get done, or is there still a question of if it will get done?

I don't think the NIMBYs can genuinely stop this project, but they can still bloat costs with special demands and concessions. There comes a point that that bites the business case.

 

[CHamilton]

Grupo Mexico to acquire Florida East Coast Railway Holdings Corp.

http://www.progressiverailroading.com/short_lines_regionals/article/Grupo-Mexico-to-acquire-Florida-East-Coast-Railway-Holdings-Corp--51189

 

[Anderson]

Can somebody please remind me which of the tangle of companies surrounding FEC this one is and what (if any) role they have in the AAF project?

 

[CHamilton]

Can somebody please remind me which of the tangle of companies surrounding FEC this one is and what (if any) role they have in the AAF project?

All Aboard Florida remains with Fortress after FEC sale

http://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/2017/03/28-all-aboard-florida-remains-with-fortress-after-fec-sale

 

[chrsjrcj]

Can somebody please remind me which of the tangle of companies surrounding FEC this one is and what (if any) role they have in the AAF project?

Fortress owned both Florida East Coast Industries (FECI) and Florida East Coast Railway (FECR). FECI and FECR became separate entities under Fortress after the purchase. All Aboard Florida (Brightline) falls under the FECI umbrella. Basically, only the freight trains were sold off. Now, I also believe that the actual railroad ROW is owned by FECI (and remains with them?).

Fortress receives $2.1 bn from the deal. Can these funds be used to expand Brightline to Orlando (and beyond)?

It also appears that the bill to regulate Brightline has stalled in the Florida House- http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/politics/political-pulse/os-brightline-bill-may-die-in-house-20170328-story.html

I find it encouraging that Tampa's mayor has also spoken out against the bill. All this, plus Mr. Reininger saying Tampa is a definite, makes me believe that Tampa won't be that far behind Orlando.

Of course, maybe I'm reading too much in to all of this.

 

[Anderson]

Depending on what is "needed" for Jacksonville, I still suspect it's a toss-up as to which of them gets service first: The business case is probably stronger for Tampa (Tampa-Orlando does come off as a strong market, and I suspect that while Tampa-Miami might not be massive, Tampa-Fort Lauderdale/West Palm won't be anything to sneeze at...and adding traffic which discharges at WPB/FLL would actually help with load factors) but you could probably start up something passable to Jacksonville for the cost of installing PTC and re-timing some signals. TBH I figure that both happen in pretty close succession.

 

[cirdan]

Article from trains here

http://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/2017/03/28-all-aboard-florida-remains-with-fortress-after-fec-sale

The article doesn't say much that hasn't alraedy been said on this thread. But one interesting remark can be found towards the end where it says "Brightline is a separate company that has dual ownership of the corridor"

It's the first time I hear of the dual ownership thing. I had previously assumed Brightline just had usage rights.

 

[Mystic River Dragon]

Please forgive me if I missed it in the fine print somewhere, but who is the other half of the "dual" in dual ownership? I would think that Brightline having a good relationship with them would be crucial.

 

[chrsjrcj]

I'm quite sure FEC Industries (still with Fortress) owns the ROW.

 

[neroden]

Sounds like there may be a pretty complicated ownership structure between FECI and FECR now. Anyone want to check the STB website for filings to figure out exactly what the situation is with ownership of ROW, track, signal, power, dispatching rights, freight operating rights, freight operating obligations, passenger operating rights, passenger operating obligations, etc. etc.?

 

[Anderson]

...why do I think this is going to end up with some very wealthy lawyers down the line?

 

[user 1215]

Is there going to be a station planned in Cocoa? Why not have a Phase 1.5 that goes all the way up the coast while they finish the Cocoa-MCO segment?

 

[jis]

The final station location choice from the three candidate locations presented by Brevard County is imminent. So yes, there will be a station in the Cocoa/Melbourne area. I mention both because the three candidate locations are spread that far apart.

There will be no phase 1.5 doing anything until the service to Orlando is inaugurated according the last pronouncements of Mr. Reninger via his spokesperson Rusty. They ought to know since they run the show.

 

[jis]

The Debbie Maynard bill died an ignominious and well deserved death in the committee.

http://floridapolitics.com/archives/234848-high-speed-rail-regulation-bill-dies-house-committee

 

[user 1215]

The final station location choice from the three candidate locations presented by Brevard County is imminent. So yes, there will be a station in the Cocoa/Melbourne area. I mention both because the three candidate locations are spread that far apart.

There will be no phase 1.5 doing anything until the service to Orlando is inaugurated according the last pronouncements of Mr. Reninger via his spokesperson Rusty. They ought to know since they run the show.

It probably wouldn't hurt to have 2 of the 3 - one in Melbourne and one in Cocoa. Where's the 3rd? I supposed just sort of a 'wish'. Seems like the Orlando segment is delayed, so I would think that getting the portion up to Cocoa/Melbourne (which I'm sure you would appreciate ) would make the final stretch into Orlando that much smoother.

Have they actually started construction to MCO? Again, my work has blocked just about every site pertinent to Brightline and the FEC.

Looking at Google Street View, it looks like there is a lot of work being done on a people mover on the south side of the airport. Does this mean that there will then be a backup move and a Y to go to Tampa? How inefficient for a "high speed" rail service!

 

[jis]

The station at MCO is past the 50% complete mark in its construction and the construction of the ROW to it on airport property and the Automatic People Mover connection between the North and South Terminals, the South Terminal end of which is at the station.

 

[chrsjrcj]

Brightline will approach OIA from the north and exit to the south (where their heavy maintenance facility will be).

The only construction is on the terminal. Track work north of WPB has not started.

 

[user 1215]

OK - I thought they were going to come in from the South. It makes more sense to come in from the North and that would help the further expansion to Tampa.

Perhaps the terminology "South Terminal" and "North Terminal" are awkward to me. I thought there was only a single terminal with A & B, A serving a North and South satellite and B serving a North and South satellite. Where I see the people mover going is to the South long term parking lot.

 

[jis]

Apparently you either don't read my detailed responses to your questions or have a short memory.

In response to your past questions I have posted a diagram showing the route of the railroad on the airport property, and the fact that the South Terminal is a new terminal that is under construction far removed from the current North Terminal. I guess we can expect to get this same question and confusion from you in another three months again?

 

[Anderson]

OK - I thought they were going to come in from the South. It makes more sense to come in from the North and that would help the further expansion to Tampa.

Perhaps the terminology "South Terminal" and "North Terminal" are awkward to me. I thought there was only a single terminal with A & B, A serving a North and South satellite and B serving a North and South satellite. Where I see the people mover going is to the South long term parking lot.

If you drive out the south end of OIA you'll find a big-*** building being built. Guess what that is

 

[Caesar La Rock]

Wasn't sure where the Brightline station was, but I did take these pictures of the construction at the airport in February onboard a Lynx bus (FastLink 407). I'll do another ride onboard the 407 to take more shots of the construction soon.

 

[Anderson]

Ding! The people mover goes in right behind the "Intermodal Terminal Facility" per the article below.

http://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/news/2017/02/14/touring-oias-new-intermodal-complex-photos.html

 

[jis]

An article on AAF/Brightline by the Mayor of Cocoa:

http://www.floridatoday.com/story/opinion/2017/04/01/brevard-brightline-station-could-mean-development-jobs/99844848/

There are many of us in Brevard County who utterly reject the nonsensical bill being pushed by Debbie Mayfield to pander to the NIMBYs of Martin and Indian River Counties.

 

[Anderson]

An article on AAF/Brightline by the Mayor of Cocoa:

http://www.floridatoday.com/story/opinion/2017/04/01/brevard-brightline-station-could-mean-development-jobs/99844848/

There are many of us in Brevard County who utterly reject the nonsensical bill being pushed by Debbie Mayfield to pander to the NIMBYs of Martin and Indian River Counties.

This verges into politics, but...

Given that district, my opinion (and it being just that, an opinion) is that there needs to be a concerted effort to primary her. The seat is a safe deep red one (she won by close to 2:1) so you're not going to get rid of her in the general election.

 

[user 1215]

Apparently you either don't read my detailed responses to your questions or have a short memory.

In response to your past questions I have posted a diagram showing the route of the railroad on the airport property, and the fact that the South Terminal is a new terminal that is under construction far removed from the current North Terminal. I guess we can expect to get this same question and confusion from you in another three months again?

Indeed, I missed your response to my query back in January, and, I was not able to see the ppt from September 2015 because it's blocked on my work PC, as are, unfortunately, Cesar LaRock's images from three posts ago.

Thank you for your patience.