Brightline Trains Florida discussion

[chrsjrcj]

Arrival from the north would allow for expansion to Disney and Tampa. Glad they are thinking ahead!

I believe this is what the FHSR project proposed as well.

 

[Brian_tampa]

Just saw on the AAF website today, not sure how long this link has been up. Must have been posted today as the document is dated Oct 31st. Here is the Environmental Assessment document (for the Miami to WPB section only) that will support their application for FRA funding (RRIF program) as noted in their STB filing earlier. LOTS of good details included with it....

http://www.allaboard...PB_to_Miami.pdf

 

[Anderson]

The downtown Miami station is probably the most interesting part of the operation. Mind you, four tracks seems like it might be one or two shy of a full order if they do a commuter line as well, but I'm loving the elevated station idea.

 

[chrsjrcj]

Just saw on the AAF website today, not sure how long this link has been up. Must have been posted today as the document is dated Oct 31st. Here is the Environmental Assessment document (for the Miami to WPB section only) that will support their application for FRA funding (RRIF program) as noted in their STB filing earlier. LOTS of good details included with it....

http://www.allaboard...PB_to_Miami.pdf

Sweet find!

There is also an appendix located on the bottom right of their homepage. I had some trouble opening it up, but I was able to view it after right clicking and saving it to my computer. Probably the coolest part is the track chart between WPB and Miami that starts on page 116. Amtrak already released one for Jacksonville to WPB. We now have a full track chart of the FEC!

I also find it interesting that the WPB and Fort Lauderdale stations (Miami is a completely different beast itself) will be two stories with a waiting room above the tracks. This is to prevent pedestrians from crossing live tracks. They also propose a retail shop. An FEC gift shop?

On page 288 (Page 2 of Appendix I) has daily boardings at AAF stations in 2030 (excluding Orlando).

West Palm Beach- 1,699

Fort Lauderdale- 953

Miami- 2,477

By my math that comes out to just under 1.9 million a year, and this is excluding ridership at the Orlando station.

 

[Brian_tampa]

News from today in West Palm Beach, AAF has purchased the site of their preferred station location in downtown WPB. Here is the link to the story via Palm Beach Post: http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/news/fec-buys-land-for-west-palm-train-station/nS42g/

So for 2.5 million spent on land in WPB, I do believe that AAF is real now! also read on the AAF Facebook page that train selection will be announced at end of the year. great news and am looking forward to more coming out in the near future!

 

[Anderson]

This is going amazingly quickly compared to anything I've seen in the last few years. The only project that even comes close is the Norfolk extension. Actually, this might well be the fastest establishment of an entirely new passenger line since WW2, if not since the '20s.

 

[cirdan]

AAF's website states it will be modern equipment. Calling even rehabbed Hi-Liners 'modern equipment' would be a bit of a stretch. I'm not saying someone wouldn't do it, but it is a stretch.

Unless you interpret modern equipment as meaning it's not a steam train.

 

[George Harris]

There is also an appendix located on the bottom right of their homepage. I had some trouble opening it up, but I was able to view it after right clicking and saving it to my computer. Probably the coolest part is the track chart between WPB and Miami that starts on page 116. Amtrak already released one for Jacksonville to WPB. We now have a full track chart of the FEC!

Maybe because it is a little big? 292.5MB

 

[Brian_tampa]

Interesting article in the West Palm Beach paper tonight.

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/business/passenger-train-on-track-for-south-florida-company/nS7bJ/

One item of interest is that AAF stated they will be hiring an operator for the service. I figured they would outsource this and maybe this will be part of the contract to purchase the 10 train sets.

 

[afigg]

Interesting article in the West Palm Beach paper tonight.

...

One item of interest is that AAF stated they will be hiring an operator for the service. I figured they would outsource this and maybe this will be part of the contract to purchase the 10 train sets.

Another item of interest in the article is "Launch is estimated for January 2015, ambitious for a project this size even if it already has been revised back from 2014." I'm not surprised as 2014 was really ambitious with 40 miles of new tracks to build. My take on the 2014 date is that the AAF management knew that 2014 was not realistic, but they are using the early date to create a sense of urgency to nudge the myriad local and state government agencies to get off the dime and not spend years dragging out the approval process.

i would be very surprised if AAF if launched in January, 2015. My guess would be the summer of 2015 at the earliest. 2015 could be an interesting year for passenger rail expansion if AAF starts the Miami to Orlando and Illinois starts Quad Cities and Dubuque to Chicago services.

 

[Brian_tampa]

Interesting article in the West Palm Beach paper tonight.

...

One item of interest is that AAF stated they will be hiring an operator for the service. I figured they would outsource this and maybe this will be part of the contract to purchase the 10 train sets.

Another item of interest in the article is "Launch is estimated for January 2015, ambitious for a project this size even if it already has been revised back from 2014." I'm not surprised as 2014 was really ambitious with 40 miles of new tracks to build. My take on the 2014 date is that the AAF management knew that 2014 was not realistic, but they are using the early date to create a sense of urgency to nudge the myriad local and state government agencies to get off the dime and not spend years dragging out the approval process.

i would be very surprised if AAF if launched in January, 2015. My guess would be the summer of 2015 at the earliest. 2015 could be an interesting year for passenger rail expansion if AAF starts the Miami to Orlando and Illinois starts Quad Cities and Dubuque to Chicago services.

My take on the start up schedule is for initial operations to begin in summer of 2015. This is due to the schedule for opening the new Orlando Intermodal Center at the airport. If you go to the orlando airport website, you can find construction documents where they estimate the schedule. See question 47 on page 12 of this presubmittal meeting minutes document from the Orlando Airport website:

http://www.orlandoairports.net/construction/advertisements/W-S100-101_Presubmittal_Minutes.pdf

It states an opening date of May 2015. It is my impression that the agreement between AAF and the Orlando airport will be announced soon. When that happens, we will know a great deal more about AAF and it's schedule.

Edit: also AAF said that train sets could take up to 24-30 months for delivery from date of order. That was from the YouTube video of the AAF presentation to the FEC historical society conference back in September. So either way, a January 2015 startup seems unlikely.

 

[chrsjrcj]

According to the Palm Beach Post, AAF was the only bidder to use SR 528's ROW between Cocoa and OIA.

http://www.palmbeach...ivate-ra/nTQNT/

 

[Anderson]

For the moment, I'll be hopeful that they have to accept their bid, which would do wonders for clearing FEC/AAF's path forwards. Not that it would remove all the obstacles, but it would go quite a ways towards doing so.

 

[Brian_tampa]

Update to AAF getting the go ahead to negotiate with FDOT. New price tag is 1.5 billion and as I suspected (see my previous posts), startup not until end of 2015. Here is link to article from South Florida Biz Journal:

http://www.bizjournals.com/southflorida/news/2012/12/18/passenger-rail-company-all-aboard.html

I wouldn't be surprised if part of the increase is due to ongoing negotiations with the Orlando airport over who covers the cost of the new station as well as demands from the expressway authority for more potential bridges across future interchanges.

 

[Anderson]

Update to AAF getting the go ahead to negotiate with FDOT. New price tag is 1.5 billion and as I suspected (see my previous posts), startup not until end of 2015. Here is link to article from South Florida Biz Journal:

http://www.bizjourna...all-aboard.html

I wouldn't be surprised if part of the increase is due to ongoing negotiations with the Orlando airport over who covers the cost of the new station as well as demands from the expressway authority for more potential bridges across future interchanges.

It's also possible that OOCEA has pushed the cost of access up as well.

 

[afigg]

Orlando Sentinel news story on AAF getting approval "All Aboard Florida wins OK to negotiate for BeachLine right of way". This article is still staying service could start by early 2015, but the other article with a possible late 2015 date sounds more realistic to me. There are stations to build, flyovers to design and build for the Beach Line expressway route, elevated station in Miami, new station complex at Orlando Airport that has to be integrated in with the airport plans and layout.

With the projected price tag increasing to $1.5 billion and likely to go up a bit more, FECI / AAF may be dependent on getting low interest RRIF loans to cover the bulk of the construction costs for the project to proceed.

 

[Brian_tampa]

Looks like the STB in a late decision on Friday 12/21/2012 approved AAF's request for exemption from STB oversight.

http://www.stb.dot.gov/decisions/ReadingRoom.nsf/UNID/3742BD042B141CAA85257ADB0079675B/$file/42728.pdf

This should clear the way for a RRIF loan application with the FRA.

 

[pennyk]

This article was on the front page of the Orlando Sentinel, above the fold, today (12/26/12).

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/os-miami-to-orlando-train-20121225,0,7345804.story

 

[Anderson]

Ok, I'm just wondering...has anyone pulled off an exemption from STB/ICC oversight on an intercity passenger rail line? Ever?

 

[Nathanael]

That's kind of an impressive decision to get -- the Vice Chairman's dissent seems correct to me, FWIW.

 

[jis]

STB ruled that it has no interest in the lease agreement between CSX and Amtrak for the portion of the Empire Corridor. This incidentally was no surprise to anyone and was fully expected.

(null)

 

[Scott Orlando]

As a complete newbie to AU, I posted this in the Commuter Rail section. My thoughts were more about a Sunrail connection (via the OUC tracks to the south) than the FEC AAF project. However, after finding this huge discussion on AAF, I thought (hope) its ok to repost it here.

I found this the other day...the master plan for the new south terminal of the Orlando International Airport. Very interesting. It shows a station for Sunrail commuter rail, Light Rail (which never heard of for the airport) and the shuttle train to the existing north terminal. There must be a tweaking in the works to include the FEC All Aboard Florida express train to Cocoa, West Palm Beach, Ft. Lauderdale and Miami. Despite the fact the governor cancelled HSR to Tampa, the idea never seems to die. And there is the proposed Maglev train from Medical City-airport-convention center. It would be nice to see all modes of transport come together like the Miami Central Station at the Miami International Airport.

Here is the link that shows the station...

http://www.orlandoai..._Renderings.pdf

and the entire web site with the MCO master plan...

http://www.orlandoai...iger4/index.htm

 

[afigg]

AAF through a LLC has brought $4 million of property in West Palm Beach to be used for the train station according to the Palm Beach Post. real money is getting put into the Maimi to Orlando corridor plan.

 

[jis]

Here is an odd twist to the Miami - Orlando passenger Rail project....

From the Orlando Sentinel:

The Mormon church could stymie efforts to build a $1.5 billion train between South Florida and Orlando International Airport by not allowing tracks on land it once owned.

Attorneys for All Aboard Florida, the Coral Gables company behind the train, are trying to decide what to do about the potential problem. On Thursday, they were poring over legal documents related to the property on the south side of the BeachLine Expressway near the airport.

"We're still analyzing it. I don't have an answer to it," said Husein Cumber, executive vice president of Florida East Coast Industries, a privately held real-estate outfit that owns All Aboard Florida.

You can read the whole story here.

 

[Gratt]

Here is an odd twist to the Miami - Orlando passenger Rail project....
From the Orlando Sentinel:

The Mormon church could stymie efforts to build a $1.5 billion train between South Florida and Orlando International Airport by not allowing tracks on land it once owned.

Attorneys for All Aboard Florida, the Coral Gables company behind the train, are trying to decide what to do about the potential problem. On Thursday, they were poring over legal documents related to the property on the south side of the BeachLine Expressway near the airport.

"We're still analyzing it. I don't have an answer to it," said Husein Cumber, executive vice president of Florida East Coast Industries, a privately held real-estate outfit that owns All Aboard Florida.

You can read the whole story here.

I did not see anything in the article that indicated that the Mormons were even remotely interested in blocking this project. This sounds like an attempt to create a headline more than real news.