Brightline Trains Florida discussion

[Scott Orlando]

I’m curious about this as well. FDOT released drawings for the Fort Lauderdale Coastal Link/Broward Commuter Rail station and showed Brightline requiring a 500’ platform. When questioned why the proposed platform is shorter than the existing platform FDOT said this is what Brightline indicated they required.

Based on how the Tri-Rail platforms at MiamiCentral are going, it’s hard for me to take Brightline at their word. (And somewhat unrelated, the Director of Tri-Rail has announced his resignation over this issue).

Isn’t this just a commuter stop and not intended for full length Orl-Mia trains?

In addition- I was under the impression that Orl-Mia will be 6-8 cars with 2 Chargers

 

[jis]

The current PD&E documents are pretty preliminary. I would wait until the EIS happens. That tends to be much more concrete.

With FDOT involved I would actually worry more about what happened with Amtrak at Miami International Airport than the shoddy construction at Miami Central. Anyhow, I suspect that when it comes time to do the EIS, they will figure out exactly who needs how long platform.

Right now they don't know who will operate it and what rolling stock will be used for it. These are all YTBD, and some of that has impact on what sort of platforms will be needed.

In any case even with a 500' platform they would be able to platform 6 cars minus one end door.

 

[west point]

It seems that actual demand for "local" trains is a great unknown. The number of trips, how their first mile/ last mile is handled, access for both originations and destinations, number of persons with autos, etc. IMO it will take actual service to start. One item the west Palm <> MIA attracted more passenger than was anticipated.

 

[jis]

It is surmised that the ridership on the Coastal Link will be at least as high as and possibly much higher than the ridership on the current Tri-Rail service, because the coastal link stations are/will be in downtown areas with much larger walk in possibilities than the current service has, where stations are not as easily accessible from populated areas absent a car/shuttle/bus ride.

At present there is no immediate activity to extend it all the way to WPB and beyond, though there are future desires. The current more detailed planning and permitting activity is in Miami-Dade and Broward Counties only. As things progress I am sure service extension to Jupiter likely frist from Tri-Rail and later on the Coastal Link will happen.

 

[jis]

BTW, you can see the latest material posted about the Broward County Plans for the Coastal Link in the county:

https://bcrviewingroom2.graph-code.com/

 

[Scott Orlando]

ok… this does show a Brightline station at FLL …which makes sense bc it would be a huge traffic generator. The only info I saw in the report was 1000’ platforms for BL and 500’ for TR. As we know, they have to be separated with BL being high and TR low…. Unless the Coastal equipment is different - which seems unlikely

 

[NES28]

I don't why everyone assumes that commuter rail in the coastal corridor will use equipment with doors requiring low level platforms. Commuter service would benefit from high level platforms, as in NEC. It would also save building separate platforms. Does Brightline not want to share their stations?

 

[joelkfla]

Does Brightline not want to share their stations?

Probably not, as Brightline platforms are controlled access via the station house. Brightline passengers have to scan their ticket and pass thru a security check to enter the boarding lounge, which provides the only access to the platform.

 

[Qapla]

Brightline Construction: Indian River County & St Lucie County Progress - December 2021/January 2022

 

[cirdan]

It is surmised that the ridership on the Coastal Link will be at least as high as and possibly much higher than the ridership on the current Tri-Rail service, because the coastal link stations are/will be in downtown areas with much larger walk in possibilities than the current service has, where stations are not as easily accessible from populated areas absent a car/shuttle/bus ride.

At present there is no immediate activity to extend it all the way to WPB and beyond, though there are future desires. The current more detailed planning and permitting activity is in Miami-Dade and Broward Counties only. As things progress I am sure service extension to Jupiter likely frist from Tri-Rail and later on the Coastal Link will happen.

Do you think that eventually Tri-Rail might transfer to the coastal line entirely, or would there still be sufficient justification for the present route once a coastal service was operational. I mean is there anything the present line can do that the coastal line cannot, and if so, is it sufficient to justify the service's continuation?

 

[user 1215]

I don't why everyone assumes that commuter rail in the coastal corridor will use equipment with doors requiring low level platforms. Commuter service would benefit from high level platforms, as in NEC. It would also save building separate platforms. Does Brightline not want to share their stations?

Sharing stations, OK. Sharing platforms, no. Even in Japan, most stations that have more than one company sharing the same station, use separate control access to the specific company's platforms. Even the one station I transferred at on my way to school that used to be a cross-platform transfer to a different company has since been isolated from the other company (JR vs Seibu).

Do you think that eventually Tri-Rail might transfer to the coastal line entirely, or would there still be sufficient justification for the present route once a coastal service was operational. I mean is there anything the present line can do that the coastal line cannot, and if so, is it sufficient to justify the service's continuation?

The nice thing about Tri-Rail being on the former CSX line is that there are very few grade crossings compared to the FEC line. Partly why you almost never hear about any trespasser incidents. I can see how more and more traffic being added to the FEC will annoy the locals with more and more crossing activations. That being said, the FEC seems to service a population more conducive to transit passengers, even though the two lines average barely a mile apart.

Also, if they abandon the current routing, I would assume they would lose convenient access to MIA airport.

 

[jis]

Do you think that eventually Tri-Rail might transfer to the coastal line entirely, or would there still be sufficient justification for the present route once a coastal service was operational. I mean is there anything the present line can do that the coastal line cannot, and if so, is it sufficient to justify the service's continuation?

I don't think they will abandon their own owned and operated line. It is not even clear who will operate the Coastal Link service using what equipment yet. There are hopes, dreams, posturing etc., but no decisions yet.

 

[Scott Orlando]

Buzz is that Bright Blue 2 is in ATL and will A line to MCO probably Wednesday

 

[Scott Orlando]

New buzz …. Leaving Manchester (1 hour south of ATL) in 20 minutes from now (0115) for the A Line.

 

[Scott Orlando]

W99827 - Blue 2 coming down the S line this morning. Interesting change.

 

[joelkfla]

W99827 - Blue 2 coming down the S line this morning. Interesting change.

At what location?

I'm not familiar with the lines, but the map on Wikipedia seems to indicate they'd need to be on the A line in FL.

 

[user 1215]

At what location?

I'm not familiar with the lines, but the map on Wikipedia seems to indicate they'd need to be on the A line in FL.

I suspect once they get to Jacksonville, they'll switch over to the FEC.

 

[joelkfla]

I suspect once they get to Jacksonville, they'll switch over to the FEC.

If they're going to the new facility at OIA via the OUC connection, don't they need to be on CSX? Would they have to come thru downtown Orlando, or is there a connection to the east?

 

[user 1215]

If they're going to the new facility at OIA via the OUC connection, don't they need to be on CSX?

Yeah - I know that's been discussed here, but I don't see the point in sending a train to be completely inactive at MCO just for training. They can train the crew at the current maintenance base and actually use the train in revenue service. Now, if they don't have enough room to store it, then, yeah, park it at the Orlando airport. I'm 100% ok with being totally wrong here. Just my perception of common sense, but I don't know what they need operationally.

 

[joelkfla]

Yeah - I know that's been discussed here, but I don't see the point in sending a train to be completely inactive at MCO just for training. They can train the crew at the current maintenance base and actually use the train in revenue service. Now, if they don't have enough room to store it, then, yeah, park it at the Orlando airport. I'm 100% ok with being totally wrong here. Just my perception of common sense, but I don't know what they need operationally.

But they don't need another train to maintain their WPB-MIA schedule, and the Brightline CEO (or similar mucky-muck) said on TV that a freshly arriving train would be placed in the new facility shortly (within weeks, specifically, and that was a couple of weeks ago.)

 

[jis]

But they don't need another train to maintain their WPB-MIA schedule, and the Brightline CEO (or similar mucky-muck) said on TV that a freshly arriving train would be placed in the new facility shortly (within weeks, specifically, and that was a couple of weeks ago.)

I believe that muckety-muck was the CEO of Brightline Holdings, Michael Reininger who at one time was the Chief Development Officer at AAF (All Aboard Florida). I have met him and talked to him briefly a couple of times at a couple of FECRS (FEC Railway Society) Meetings over the years.

 

[Scott Orlando]

Now at the siding in Davenport. Holding short of CFRC

idk why they would have wanted to go S Line, then back up the A line. Seems like a much longer route.

 

[jis]

Now at the siding in Davenport. Holding short of CFRC

idk why they would have wanted to go S Line, then back up the A line. Seems like a much longer route.

CSX staying on its own tracks as much as they can?

 

[cirdan]

Yeah - I know that's been discussed here, but I don't see the point in sending a train to be completely inactive at MCO just for training. They can train the crew at the current maintenance base and actually use the train in revenue service. Now, if they don't have enough room to store it, then, yeah, park it at the Orlando airport. I'm 100% ok with being totally wrong here. Just my perception of common sense, but I don't know what they need operationally.

Maybe they want to recruit crews at different locations along the route so people don't have to travel too far to start work. So it would make sense to be recruiting crews in the Orlando area and also training them there.

 

[Scott Orlando]

Credit: Jeff Myers FB CFRC group