Cardinal discussion

[Rasputin]

I have only been to Indianapolis once and that was in 1972 as a passenger on the Floridian from Chicago to Nashville. I don't know if the station used in Indianapolis then is the same as the one used today. A few of us stepped off the train for some fresh air. Aside from a few lights at the station the platform seemed to be quite dark. The police officer at the station was staring off into the darkness and seemed to be a bit paranoid that we were going to be attacked and overwhelmed by thugs at any moment. It seemed like a scene from a Stephen King movie. I assume Indianapolis is a nice place but I was not disappointed when we departed that night.

 

[McLeansvilleAppFan]

I have only been to Indianapolis once and that was in 1972 as a passenger on the Floridian from Chicago to Nashville. I don't know if the station used in Indianapolis then is the same as the one used today. A few of us stepped off the train for some fresh air. Aside from a few lights at the station the platform seemed to be quite dark. The police officer at the station was staring off into the darkness and seemed to be a bit paranoid that we were going to be attacked and overwhelmed by thugs at any moment. It seemed like a scene from a Stephen King movie. I assume Indianapolis is a nice place but I was not disappointed when we departed that night.

1972. He might have just been back from Vietnam or something and was dealing with his own demons.

I did walk the entire platform and I did notice as I walked under the over head lights they would burn brighter. It seemed they had a motion detector attached, which seemed odd for a platform with graffiti all around and as I was to learn from the security guard, no security camera. But the ligths seemed to brighten for the dozen or more lights I walked under.

We left the station with our luggage and walked 3 blocks to our hotel. Then immediately walked the 8-10 blocks to the bus depot. That had us walking back by the train station and the tracks are on a bridge over the road (Capitol Rd I think.) that we walked on. My wife looks down and sees a pile of human excrement. That was our first impression of Indianapolis sad to say. But I never felt unsafe, though we could have been given better information about the transit phone app, but that is another story for another time and not directly related to Amtrak.

 

[zephyr17]

I have only been to Indianapolis once and that was in 1972 as a passenger on the Floridian from Chicago to Nashville. I don't know if the station used in Indianapolis then is the same as the one used today. A few of us stepped off the train for some fresh air. Aside from a few lights at the station the platform seemed to be quite dark. The police officer at the station was staring off into the darkness and seemed to be a bit paranoid that we were going to be attacked and overwhelmed by thugs at any moment. It seemed like a scene from a Stephen King movie. I assume Indianapolis is a nice place but I was not disappointed when we departed that night.

In 1972, they were still using Indianapolis Union Station itself. Unfortunately it was in very sorry shape by then. Poorly lit, and with chunks of plaster falling out of the ceiling in what became known as the "Great Hall" but was then just the waiting room. It was indeed decrepit, dark, and creepy. The only station I was ever in that was creepier was Detroit's Michigan Central in like 1984, where waiting room was unused, a dark, high ceilinged cavern crossed by an walkway through it bordered by plywood walls strung with work lights, the only lighting.

The city and Crowne Plaza did a magnificent restoration of the headhouse, the "Great Hall". Unfortunately, it did not include a provision for continued rail service out of it. Now, I understand it is used by Crowne Plaza as a banquet facility and is not open to the general public. I recall you could get into it when the "Union Station" shopping development was a going concern. Not now, though.

 

[Rasputin]

1972. He might have just been back from Vietnam or something and was dealing with his own demons.

I doubt that was the case here as the officer seemed to be much closer to retirement age than Vietnam age. Of course perhaps his concern was legitimate. Perhaps in the past, thugs had emerged from the darkness.

I doubt there were motion detector lights at the station in Indianapolis in 1972. It just seemed like a dark and ominous place.

 

[Palmland]

I wonder why Amtrak can’t use ADA money for platforms like Indy and Cincinnati to make them safer and more accessible (although Cinci has long ramps to the platform). Sounds like they’ve a law suit waiting to happen.

I know at the very small station in SC where we used to live close to $1.5m was spent for ADA bathrooms, asbestos abatement, walkways and platform improvements.

 

[jphjaxfl]

I wonder why Amtrak can’t use ADA money for platforms like Indy and Cincinnati to make them safer and more accessible (although Cinci has long ramps to the platform). Sounds like they’ve a law suit waiting to happen.

I know at the very small station in SC where we used to live close to $1.5m was spent for ADA bathrooms, asbestos abatement, walkways and platform improvements.

I went to college in Southern Indiana and traveled through Indianapolis many times prior to Amtrak and after Amtrak. Originally Indianapolis was one of the most convenient Union Stations. The tracks were all elevated so no street crossings. I took the Penn Central's James Whitcomb Riley from Indianapolis to Chicago in the summer of 1970 because it made the best connection to western trains. It was strictly a Penn Central Station with 9 trains arriving and departing. It was a large older station, but no crime that I remember. Even after Amtrak started they still had 6 daily trains; The National Limited, The South Wind and the James Whitcomb Riley and seemed to be safe. My last trip out of Indianapolis was in the summer of 1983 when I took the Cardinal which was the only train left to Chicago to connect to Minneapolis which there were still 2 departures. They had the set up they currently have but seemed to have plenty of Amtrak service people. The main problem with Indianapolis was the fact that the Penn Central tracks every where in Indiana were in terrible shape.
Indiana was never a passenger rail friendly state so everything has deteriorated to what they have now. Unless the state of Indiana starts some support, it will never get any better.

 

[McLeansvilleAppFan]

I doubt that was the case here as the officer seemed to be much closer to retirement age than Vietnam age. Of course perhaps his concern was legitimate. Perhaps in the past, thugs had emerged from the darkness.

I doubt there were motion detector lights at the station in Indianapolis in 1972. It just seemed like a dark and ominous place.

They did have LEDs in place so maybe there is an LED light fixture with some sort of motion detector built in that does not require extra wiring beyond screwing the light bulb into the socket.

I went to college in Southern Indiana and traveled through Indianapolis many times prior to Amtrak and after Amtrak. Originally Indianapolis was one of the most convenient Union Stations. The tracks were all elevated so no street crossings. I took the Penn Central's James Whitcomb Riley from Indianapolis to Chicago in the summer of 1970 because it made the best connection to western trains. It was strictly a Penn Central Station with 9 trains arriving and departing. It was a large older station, but no crime that I remember. Even after Amtrak started they still had 6 daily trains; The National Limited, The South Wind and the James Whitcomb Riley and seemed to be safe. My last trip out of Indianapolis was in the summer of 1983 when I took the Cardinal which was the only train left to Chicago to connect to Minneapolis which there were still 2 departures. They had the set up they currently have but seemed to have plenty of Amtrak service people. The main problem with Indianapolis was the fact that the Penn Central tracks every where in Indiana were in terrible shape.
Indiana was never a passenger rail friendly state so everything has deteriorated to what they have now. Unless the state of Indiana starts some support, it will never get any better.

I did not feel unsafe but maybe I am naive as well. In a way I felt safer at the top of the steps with my spouse on the platform for those 25 minutes until the other family arrived than I did in the waiting room of a few dozen, many seeming to be homeless or using the waiting room as a hotel between very long bus connections. I figured if someone come onto the platform we would see them and hightail it down the steps with some luggage left behind if needed. But it was quite and peaceful except for the loud freight train that took 7 minutes to pass through the station.

 

[MARC Rider]

I was never a scout so I don't know tons about the badges. But I suggest the scouts start a "late night hustle badge" and the scouts could earn a badge AND tip money. They can help those in need up and down the steps at Indianapolis and they can carry a can of the foam used in international association football fixtures to mark free kick defense lines and use the foam to mark dangerous spots on the Cincinnati platform.

Sounds like win-win-win to me.

Uh as an Eagle Scout, I lnow you're not supposed to accept tips for going a "good turn."

The legend about how Scouting came to America is that an American Gentleman was lost in a London fog, and a Scout helped him find his way. When he tried to tip thr Scout for his help, the Scout explained that Scouts didn't take take tips for doing a "good turn". The American was ao impressed that he learned more about British Scouting and brought it to the USA.

 

[McLeansvilleAppFan]

Uh as an Eagle Scout, I lnow you're not supposed to accept tips for going a "good turn."

The legend about how Scouting came to America is that an American Gentleman was lost in a London fog, and a Scout helped him find his way. When he tried to tip thr Scout for his help, the Scout explained that Scouts didn't take take tips for doing a "good turn". The American was ao impressed that he learned more about British Scouting and brought it to the USA.

I know Scouts can't accept tips, I was just going for a bit of humor that was also removed for being "off topic." I imagine your post will have to be deleted as well as quoting an off-topic topic can't make it become on-topic, or maybe it can. We will have to wait and see.

I was not aware the BSA started from original efforts in Britain. All joking aside I am glad I learned a bit today. Makes it a good day.

 

[toddinde]

Usually, with wheelchairs, there's that lift/elevator-type device that you see at other stations (pictured below). Is there not one of these at Cincinnati? I know I've seen them on the platforms at CUS.
View attachment 37052
Or, are you actually talking about inside the building and not on the platforms? When I was on the Cardinal, I'm pretty sure Indianapolis had one of these as well.

At both Indianapolis and Cincinnati, the stations are on a different level than the tracks. The platforms are inaccessible except through the stations. In Indianapolis, the station is in a grim basement below the platforms down an incredibly steep staircase. That device gets one off the train, but then you’re stranded on the platform with literally no way to get down if nobody is there to man the elevator. In any event, this is ridiculous. Amtrak needs a station agent extra board for call outs. The advice given to go to the platform isn’t even practical unless you walked a couple blocks down, climbed up to the tracks, and walked a quarter mile down the tracks. So dumb!

Was going to add this and lost internet and then took a nap and woke back up to no internet

As mentioned we took the stairs to the platform. The elevator was off, and I am sure for security at both the bottom level and on the top floor at the platform. I tried to call the elevator on both locations just to see if it worked there and the elevator was off there so it must need a key to turn on. I assume it would have worked had he stayed around the waiting area to be called up as it worked a few days earlier. I assume the agents have a key to operate the elevator as do the on board staff in case the train arrives as it did last night with no station agent.


I took some video of the cemented over stairs that went to some part of the station. They left the railing and handrails up just filled in the hole were the steps are. The platform is track 9 and 10 so I assume at one time there was track 1 through 8 as well. There was room for two more tracks with an island platform in-between what would have been tracks 11 and 12 then one or two freight tracks that say usage while we were on the platform.

You’re right. What makes Indianapolis even more pathetic is that Union Station itself is right there, beautifully restored, and is virtually unused for anything. They need to open it up for Amtrak.

As a complete aside to the lunacy that is Indianapolis, a friend of mine put her son on the train some years ago. Upon arriving in Indy at the usual convenient arrival time of midnight, he went outside to the ridiculously tiny pick up area. His ride wasn’t there yet, and he was promptly mugged and robed of all his cash. Indy is a real gem. Union Station sits there across the tracks, beautifully restored, virtually unused except for an occasional lavish event, sitting like a silent, hulking monster while railroad passengers arrive in a filthy, dangerous basement. Indy should be ashamed.

 

[Asher]

The worst thing about the Indianapolis station is the reputation and the time of day Amtrak operates to and from the station. The second is trying to get local relatives to venture to that area at O dark thirty. Otherwise, it’s serviceable, just not a place to hang out.

 

[toddinde]

The worst thing about the Indianapolis station is the reputation and the time of day Amtrak operates to and from the station. The second is trying to get local relatives to venture to that area at O dark thirty. Otherwise, it’s serviceable, just not a place to hang out.

The fact that we’re willing to accept Indianapolis as not that bad is just a reflection of how low our standards have gotten.

 

[railiner]

From the recent discussion of Cincinnati and Indianapolis, it sounds like we have declined to third-world railroading at its best. Given the size of those communities, it is rather shocking.

Bad as it is, they’re both still better off than Columbus, OH, which wishes it at least had a train…

 

[zephyr17]

The fact that we’re willing to accept Indianapolis as not that bad is just a reflection of how low our standards have gotten.

Who's "we"? It is a pit and I do not accept excuses for it. In fact, that station is one of reasons I no longer take Amtrak to Indianapolis. I go to Chicago and rent a car.

 

[dcipjr]

The Indianapolis station is dreadful. I've been there twice—both times being bused from Galesburg to connect with #50 after it became apparent that the #4 Southwest Chief wouldn't make it to Chicago on time to catch the Cardinal.

I don't plan on going there again—as mentioned previously, I won't book the Cardinal on a same-day connection with #4 anymore. Lesson learned.

It's a dingy, creepy, hole-in-the-ground. Those of us who arrived on the bus connection just sat all together for a few hours waiting for the Cardinal. Safety in numbers.

There were all sorts of shifty looking characters in the station waiting to ride the Big Gray Dog. Thankfully there were security guards.

When the Cardinal rumbled into the station above—mercifully on-time—there was no announcement. No Amtrak personnel were visible in the station. The information windows did light up shortly before departure, but I didn't see anyone in there. A bunch of us just looked around, with questioning looks, and trudged upstairs to the platform.

I had thought about exploring Indianapolis, but the area around the station didn't seem particularly welcoming, and I didn't want to carry my luggage with me.

I don't blame anyone for avoiding this station—I plan to avoid it from now on as well.

 

[zephyr17]

I had thought about exploring Indianapolis, but the area around the station didn't seem particularly welcoming, and I didn't want to carry my luggage with me.

The problem with exploring is that the station is on the other side of a very long, dark underpass (all the former platform tracks) from downtown proper. I walked it one time to a hotel. It felt very creepy and dangerous and I will not do it again Happily nothing happened beyond getting thoroughly creeped out.

Adding to the aura the underpass has a lot of dark alcoves that would provide excellent hiding places. Back in the day they were entrances to offices under the tracks for express and mail services.

 

[MccfamschoolMom]

I've traveled to Indy a number of times (for GenCon each summer), but always by car rather than by train, and we were never in downtown Indy after dark. I'd have similar safety concerns about arriving at/departing from the Emeryville, CA station (from what I read about it on this forum last year when the hubby & I were considering a trip on the California Zephyr), so whenever we do get around to trying the CZ, we'll probably get off at one of the stations in California prior to Emeryville.

 

[Asher]

Wow, I feel fortunate to have escaped the place. I will acknowledge it’s a place you try to go in and get on departing and get off and get out upon arriving.

 

[UserNameRequired]

I have never been to the the Indianapolis station. The description seems to sound familiar to Pittsburgh to me. How does Indianapolis compare to Pittsburgh?

 

[MARC Rider]

I have never been to the the Indianapolis station. The description seems to sound familiar to Pittsburgh to me. How does Indianapolis compare to Pittsburgh?

Never been to Indianapolis, but from the descriptions, Pittsburgh is much better. It's staffed, has a brightly lit waiting room, and there's an escalator and self service elevator that takes you up to the tracks. There's good drive up access, and even in the wee hours walking around downtown from my hotel, it didn't seem all that dangerous.

 

[zephyr17]

It's staffed, has a brightly lit waiting room

Well, Indy's waiting room is well lit, though skeevy, and is staffed when they show up. That's about all Indy's pluses, though.

 

[Bob Dylan]

I have never been to the the Indianapolis station. The description seems to sound familiar to Pittsburgh to me. How does Indianapolis compare to Pittsburgh?

Pittsburgh has been improved alot in the past year, ( it can still ger better)while Indy remains a dump, probably the worst Amtrak Station in a Big City!

 

[Willbridge]

In 2015 I was in Indianapolis on a trip from Denver to Chattanooga and return. I'd already heard about it (the last time I used it before was in 1969), so I was ready to deal with it. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone who didn't have experience riding Greyhound.

By Murphy's law, Train 6 was on time at Galesburg, and I caught an earlier Thruway trip on Burlington Trailways to Indianapolis than I had planned. So, I walked through the underpass and found a hamburger place for an excuse to not wait in the station.



Then I came back for the Greyhound part of the trip. On my return I had a shorter wait for the Galesburg connection.



Nashville Greyhound station at breakfast time.


Attractive new Greyhound station in Chattanooga has since been abandoned.

 

[railiner]

In 2015 I was in Indianapolis on a trip from Denver to Chattanooga and return. I'd already heard about it (the last time I used it before was in 1969), so I was ready to deal with it. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone who didn't have experience riding Greyhound.

By Murphy's law, Train 6 was on time at Galesburg, and I caught an earlier Thruway trip on Burlington Trailways to Indianapolis than I had planned. So, I walked through the underpass and found a hamburger place for an excuse to not wait in the station.

View attachment 37067

Then I came back for the Greyhound part of the trip. On my return I had a shorter wait for the Galesburg connection.

View attachment 37068

Nashville Greyhound station at breakfast time.
View attachment 37069

Attractive new Greyhound station in Chattanooga has since been abandoned.
View attachment 37070

You should have grabbed a felt pen and added to that “menu”…
“ No Greyhound”…

 

[McLeansvilleAppFan]

So many details showed off how it was basically abandoned in the middle of operations, by the Penn Central bankruptcy I assume, and never tended to for years after.

I was thinking Indianapolis needs to rent out the terminal for some post-apocalyptic zombie movie. They could promote it as a cheap location not really needing any work to make it look good for that post-apocalyptic feel.