Cars to be rebuilt

[Steve4031]

I understand that money has been allocated to beach grove and Bear Shops in Wilmington to rebuild/refurbish the cars that have been sitting in disrepair.

Does anybody know what kinds of cars are going to be repaired, and what trains they will be on. also, what would be done to these cars?

Thanks

 

[Acela150]

My guess is all the Amcans will be "refurbished" first as the NEC carries the majority of the nations passengers.

Stephen

 

[cpamtfan]

Actually, I would think any refixable Superliners at BG. There are some diners in BG also (8511-14-19), those could possibly (if still around) could at least see a chance to run a little longer. And from what I know, most Amcans still at Bear and Wilmington are former Amcafes,Amclubs, and Amdinettes. Most of the coach fleet has been refurbed. There are also baggage and other cars which could see some work for work.

cpamtfan-Peter

 

[AlanB]

My guess is all the Amcans will be "refurbished" first as the NEC carries the majority of the nations passengers.
Stephen

No running Amcans will be refurbished, only the 41 Amfleets that were mothballed because they needed major work to pass FRA mandated inspections and a few wrecked cars are to be put back on the road with the stimulus monies.

Perhaps once those cars are back on the road, and assuming that Amtrak continues to receive decent funding, we'll see an expansion to the ongoing refurbishment program for the Amfleets. As of right now there are 159 AMF's scheduled for various levels of overhaul. But the current refurbishment program is for cars that are still active, not wrecks and mothballed cars which is what's being discussed in connection with the stimulus program.

 

[AlanB]

As I mentioned in the above post, the mothballed Amfleets, along with some wrecks are to be handled at Bear. Beech Grove should be working mainly on wrecked Superliners. It is possible that there are a few other wrecks, perhaps even engines, that BG will work on. I suppose that it's possible that Amtrak might also decide to work on a wrecked baggage car or a wrecked Heritage diner, but I think that unlikely since Amtrak expects to order new cars in both lines.

BG under normal funding, non-stimulus monies, is already working on 7 Heritage Diners and 20 baggage cars. It wouldn't surprise me to find out that those two programs either get cancelled before year's end or at least scaled back, since Amtrak is now going to order new cars of both types.

 

[Philzy]

the next question I'm sure (on everyones minds) will be where will these cars go to? new trains? or extra cars on current service?

 

[AlanB]

the next question I'm sure (on everyones minds) will be where will these cars go to? new trains? or extra cars on current service?

Probably both.

 

[printman2000]

BG under normal funding, non-stimulus monies, is already working on 7 Heritage Diners and 20 baggage cars. It wouldn't surprise me to find out that those two programs either get cancelled before year's end or at least scaled back, since Amtrak is now going to order new cars of both types.

Alan, where do you get this info from? Is it available online somewhere?

 

[jis]

BG under normal funding, non-stimulus monies, is already working on 7 Heritage Diners and 20 baggage cars. It wouldn't surprise me to find out that those two programs either get cancelled before year's end or at least scaled back, since Amtrak is now going to order new cars of both types.

BTW, yesterday at the NARP North East Regional meeting in New London CT, Ross Capon of NARP was one of the speakers. In course of his talk on Amtrak looking forward he mentioned that Boardman has committed to restore full Diner Service to the LSL as soon as possible. I guess that depends on the those Heritage Diners coming out of Beech Grove. Naturally this was music to our ears, specially when mentioned in conjunction with restoration of the Boston Sleeper, which has just happened.

 

[PRR 60]

BG under normal funding, non-stimulus monies, is already working on 7 Heritage Diners and 20 baggage cars. It wouldn't surprise me to find out that those two programs either get cancelled before year's end or at least scaled back, since Amtrak is now going to order new cars of both types.

BTW, yesterday at the NARP North East Regional meeting in New Londin CT, Ross Capon of NARP was one of the speakers. In course of his talk on Amtrak looking forward he mentioned that Boardman has committed to restore full Diner Service to the LSL as soon as possible. I guess that depends on the those Heritage Diners coming out of Beech Grove. Naturally this was music to our ears, specially when mentioned in conjunction with restoration of the Boston Sleeper, which has just happened.

It's amazing that there is presently not one train between the northeast and Chicago that has a dining car. This was once the premier route for overnight rail travel and the railroads competed in every area, especially dining. Of course, Amtrak has no competition, so it's take it or leave it. I'll leave it.

 

[Larry H.]

Sadly the congress has felt for some time that the rest of us should suck it up and eat anything in any form of diner they decide they will provide, all the while having subsidized fancy meals in their own private restaurant! Well the rules have always been different for congress than the rest of us peasants any way.

I do see a glimmer of hope in the new Amtrak Presidents statements that he seems to be saying he wants to restore rail service to a more positive experience than it has been offered of late. Of course the way things are going in Washington it could be another reversal of fortune in a few more years and all this could be mute once again..

 

[AlanB]

BG under normal funding, non-stimulus monies, is already working on 7 Heritage Diners and 20 baggage cars. It wouldn't surprise me to find out that those two programs either get cancelled before year's end or at least scaled back, since Amtrak is now going to order new cars of both types.

Alan, where do you get this info from? Is it available online somewhere?

It's in the monthly status/financial reports that Amtrak releases. Look for them under the News section, and then Other Reports.

 

[printman2000]

BTW, yesterday at the NARP North East Regional meeting in New London CT, Ross Capon of NARP was one of the speakers. In course of his talk on Amtrak looking forward he mentioned that Boardman has committed to restore full Diner Service to the LSL as soon as possible. I guess that depends on the those Heritage Diners coming out of Beech Grove. Naturally this was music to our ears, specially when mentioned in conjunction with restoration of the Boston Sleeper, which has just happened.

That is good news. Not holding my breath, but it would be nice to get them on before summer.

 

[Joel N. Weber II]

Are we likely to see 120V outlets next to every single pair of coach seats on all active Amtrak equipment at some point in the next few years?

Also, is anything ever going to be done to improve availability of outlets in the Sightseer Lounge cars?

 

[Rafi]

With regard to the Dining Car situation, there was a bit of news to come out of the NARP Meeting yesterday in Baltimore. Joe McHugh Vice President, Government Affairs and Corporate Communications was there and spoke briefly about the rebuild projects. He said that the Amfleet/Diner/Baggage restorations are continuing and they plan to pretty much empty the warehouse, so to speak, with only a few cars left mothballed when all is said and done. With the Diners going back onto the Lake Shore, they're still going to be perilously short on spares until the new cars arrive in a few years, he said, so they are seriously looking at bringing the Viewliner Diner back into service later this year. He said that right now it's being transported from Bear to Beech Grove to draw up new blueprints for the new Viewliner Diners when they go to the production line, and after that it may go out for revenue service to fill in while the new diners are being negotiated.

Take it for what it's worth, obviously. I pressed him in the Q&A for clarification as to what exactly the plan was for revenue service on the existing Viewliner Diner and he wasn't prepared to go in depth—sounded like they're not entirely sure if it will in fact go into service, and if it does what route it'll go on, will there be any modifications, etc etc.

-Rafi

 

[Joel N. Weber II]

Are particular dining cars normally assigned to particular routes anyway? I would think with maintenance rotations that a single dining car could rotate through several routes over the course of a few years.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

I, for one, would love to see Viewliner diners. Proper diners.

Screw the diner-lites.

 

[PRR 60]

With regard to the Dining Car situation, there was a bit of news to come out of the NARP Meeting yesterday in Baltimore. Joe McHugh Vice President, Government Affairs and Corporate Communications was there and spoke briefly about the rebuild projects. He said that the Amfleet/Diner/Baggage restorations are continuing and they plan to pretty much empty the warehouse, so to speak, with only a few cars left mothballed when all is said and done. With the Diners going back onto the Lake Shore, they're still going to be perilously short on spares until the new cars arrive in a few years, he said, so they are seriously looking at bringing the Viewliner Diner back into service later this year. He said that right now it's being transported from Bear to Beech Grove to draw up new blueprints for the new Viewliner Diners when they go to the production line, and after that it may go out for revenue service to fill in while the new diners are being negotiated.
Take it for what it's worth, obviously. I pressed him in the Q&A for clarification as to what exactly the plan was for revenue service on the existing Viewliner Diner and he wasn't prepared to go in depth—sounded like they're not entirely sure if it will in fact go into service, and if it does what route it'll go on, will there be any modifications, etc etc.

-Rafi

My understanding is that the Viewliner diner was taken out of service because the ergonomics of the kitchen were so bad that it was not just inefficient but dangerous to the food preparation staff. The problems were so inherent that they were not repairable except for a total rebuild. Of course, I would not expect that a PR VP would have any clue about little details like that. And, if they are actually reverse engineering the Viewliner diner for the next batch, I hope they take the time to ask the people who actually have to work in the cars what they want.

Every company's PR staff is out of touch with the actual company, but Amtrak PR takes that concept to a whole new level. My favorite was when Amtrak had an electric locomotive catch fire in Connecticut. The Amtrak PR person (now the NJ Transit PR person) was interviewed by a local newspaper and blamed the fire on Amtrak's lack of funding saying that the locomotives were old and could not properly be maintained. Of course, the locomotive that failed was an HHP-8 that was at the time less than a year old. Oops.

 

[Larry H.]

I find it very disturbing that such lousy designs go into production. It seems that on one has a clue as to how a decent sleeper, diner or lounge ought to look, operate and work on the road. It only took one trip on a viewliner bedroom to rate them the bottom of the barrel in quality and repair. Now they are the new gold standard it would appear. How sad.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

I find it very disturbing that such lousy designs go into production. It seems that on one has a clue as to how a decent sleeper, diner or lounge ought to look, operate and work on the road. It only took one trip on a viewliner bedroom to rate them the bottom of the barrel in quality and repair. Now they are the new gold standard it would appear. How sad.

One trip tells you that much eh?

I've never ridden on the Viewliners but they seem to be decent operating cars, maybe not as good as the Superliners-- but then again a good double-decker car always beats out a single level.

It's like model railroading, I remember when buying engines I always weighed them. And when give a choice, I bought the heavier one. For some reason heavy = more rugged. At least on a MODEL railroad.

 

[Larry H.]

I find it very disturbing that such lousy designs go into production. It seems that on one has a clue as to how a decent sleeper, diner or lounge ought to look, operate and work on the road. It only took one trip on a viewliner bedroom to rate them the bottom of the barrel in quality and repair. Now they are the new gold standard it would appear. How sad.

One trip tells you that much eh?

I've never ridden on the Viewliners but they seem to be decent operating cars, maybe not as good as the Superliners-- but then again a good double-decker car always beats out a single level.

It's like model railroading, I remember when buying engines I always weighed them. And when give a choice, I bought the heavier one. For some reason heavy = more rugged. At least on a MODEL railroad.

Yes without a doubt. If you have half an eye for design or quality both of which are sorely lacking on the viewliners then the superliners easily win.

Maybe its me, but the bedrooms not only have every possible rattle known to trains and at way higher volumes and lower bench seats that are too short for many to nap on without bending your neck way out of shape. The doors are missing most of the original latches and have hardware store replacements leaving holes in the doors. (high quality). And for another I very much disliked the disconnected look to the roof lines of the rooms. Its like being in a room with openings going off in several directions, just not a bit cozy like pullman or superliner bedrooms. The roomettes one saving grace that some seem not to like is having its own toilet. But again in the old days they were much better at blending them in out of the way than the new one is. I think the word for it might be "Cheap", except the fare. Oh yes as long a were on the viewliner trains, the diner is pitiful and the lounge is nearly nonexistent. I would take the Cardinal any day for quality of equipment and view. The equipment may be getting old and has its own flaws but in all my many sleeper trips the viewliner won out as worst by a long shot.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

I find it very disturbing that such lousy designs go into production. It seems that on one has a clue as to how a decent sleeper, diner or lounge ought to look, operate and work on the road. It only took one trip on a viewliner bedroom to rate them the bottom of the barrel in quality and repair. Now they are the new gold standard it would appear. How sad.

One trip tells you that much eh?

I've never ridden on the Viewliners but they seem to be decent operating cars, maybe not as good as the Superliners-- but then again a good double-decker car always beats out a single level.

It's like model railroading, I remember when buying engines I always weighed them. And when give a choice, I bought the heavier one. For some reason heavy = more rugged. At least on a MODEL railroad.

Yes without a doubt. If you have half an eye for design or quality both of which are sorely lacking on the viewliners then the superliners easily win.

Maybe its me, but the bedrooms not only have every possible rattle known to trains and at way higher volumes and lower bench seats that are too short for many to nap on without bending your neck way out of shape. The doors are missing most of the original latches and have hardware store replacements leaving holes in the doors. (high quality). And for another I very much disliked the disconnected look to the roof lines of the rooms. Its like being in a room with openings going off in several directions, just not a bit cozy like pullman or superliner bedrooms. The roomettes one saving grace that some seem not to like is having its own toilet. But again in the old days they were much better at blending them in out of the way than the new one is. I think the word for it might be "Cheap", except the fare. Oh yes as long a were on the viewliner trains, the diner is pitiful and the lounge is nearly nonexistent. I would take the Cardinal any day for quality of equipment and view. The equipment may be getting old and has its own flaws but in all my many sleeper trips the viewliner won out as worst by a long shot.

Right-- but that all, all of what you mentioned, is stuff that has nothing to do with the car's original design.

And, how many times do I have to say it about the price, if somebody from 1941 exchanged their money for today's ticket, they would get the same fricken service.

Tired of people tho think the grass was always greener in the past. Well, it wasn't. I heard some pretty gnarly stories about some trains in the past. Amtrak provides a quality service that, across the board, is about the same no matter what train you are on and this is as it should be... Quality control people! LOVE IT!

 

[Larry H.]

I believe we have disagreed in the past no doubt!

The problems inherent in the rooms has everything to do with the "quality" of the design. If you can't realize that then the conversation is hopeless which most likely is true on all points.

Why is less quality always promoted here has the "new norm". Its the norm because of who designs and builds the equipment.

Fares were figured on a much different scale in those long past days as you would refer to them. We have also been though that. Yes they may in real terms be the same but the ratio charged for the rooms is not by about 18 times!

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

Fares were figured on a much different scale in those long past days as you would refer to them. We have also been though that. Yes they may in real terms be the same but the ratio charged for the rooms is not by about 18 times!

Bull.

All you need is an inflation adjustment index for any given year and an old PRR time table. Trust me, did it myself. Our rooms are about the same on many routes, cheaper on some as well... and if I recall y'all didn't get your food included back then.

 

[Larry H.]

I forgot the comment on the service. Yes towards the end of private railroads running the routes many wanted out and went to great lengths to discourage ridership. I unfortunately rode lots of them. However a few held on such the Santa Fe and GM&O, among others. When railroads wanted the passenger the trains were run in a far superior manner than now.