CZ Train Truck Collision In Nevada (2011)

[Rider]

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2011/06/24/3-killed-as-Amtrak-train-truck-collide/UPI-76781308951810/

This article is saying at least 5 died in the collision -

 

[Rob_C]

And those crossing gates look just fine. The truck had to drive around them, which isn't really that likely while sleep driving while a train is blaring its horn at you. (assuming they can verify that, which I suspect in time they will confirm one way or another). I know it's still early. But anyone else leaning towards suicide or something more sinister here?

 

[lthanlon]

Video from the scene.

http://www.kolotv.com/home/headlines/Semi_Truck_and_Amtrak_Train_Crash_124502874.html

"Semi-Truck vs Amtrak"?! What ***** writes a headline like that? People died, for crying out loud.

 

[Rider]

More: Interviews with several passengers:

http://www.rgj.com/article/20110624/NEWS/110624012/Two-confirmed-dead-dozens-injured-after-Amtrak-train-collides-gravel-truck-near-Fallon

 

[George Harris]

My guess is that the fire and smoke are where the front of the truck hit the train. The huge hole in the side of the next car is where the gravel trailer swung around and hit it. I see one poster said the truck was empty and somewhere else I saw it was loaded. The size of the hole in the side of the car would suggest loaded, but then we should be seeing gravel or rock of some sort all over the place, so looks like going with empty is the right answer.

Regardless, it would be difficult to find a crossing more wide open on both road and track.

 

[SP&S]

And those crossing gates look just fine. The truck had to drive around them, which isn't really that likely while sleep driving while a train is blaring its horn at you. (assuming they can verify that, which I suspect in time they will confirm one way or another). I know it's still early. But anyone else leaning towards suicide or something more sinister here?

Way, way, way too early for speculation like that. And anyway; if you wanted to attack a train, there are far easier ways to do it.

I believe the track limit there was 79 mph and the highway's limit was 70. I'm not surprised there's so little left of the truck, but the damage to the coaches is astounding - there's a pair of Superliners that are far beyond rebuilding. Tragic. My prayers are with those killed, injured, and shaken.

 

[Michael061282]

It does seem to be odd that the truck struck train, not the other way around. I'm really hoping it wasn't anything intentional, be it suicide or whatever. We may never know, but something about this just doesn't seem right.

 

[Rider]

I am puzzling over the fact that the train was 2 or 3 cars into the crossing, the truck hit it, yet the crossing arms are intact. Hopefully NTSB and other investigators can make sense of it all through whatever evidence is available.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Geeze, if Amtrak cars are that flammable do I really want to ride in one?

Maybe we should add "fire extinguisher" to the list of things folks should bring with them. I never saw a single reference, image, or video of anyone trying to put out the fires. I did see photos of cars simply left to burn themselves out, possibly trapping and killing passengers in the process. Even if Amtrak has insurance nobody is selling Superliners anymore. They just lost two or three more cars they'll never get back. I guess they either don't have extinguishers or have no clue how to use them.

 

[The Journalist]

I'm thinking the fire extinguishers they have are meant for things like a seat catching fire, and would be vastly overwhelmed by a diesel explosion.

 

[NorthCoastHiawatha]

The west is just a mess, floods, wildfires, now a collision, a breather would be nice. Earlier today the status map was a sea of red and yellow, the corridors being the only exception.

 

[George B]

Geeze, if Amtrak cars are that flammable do I really want to ride in one?

Maybe we should add "fire extinguisher" to the list of things folks should bring with them. I never saw a single reference, image, or video of anyone trying to put out the fires. I did see photos of cars simply left to burn themselves out, possibly trapping and killing passengers in the process. Even if Amtrak has insurance nobody is selling Superliners anymore. They just lost two or three more cars they'll never get back. I guess they either don't have extinguishers or have no clue how to use them.

Nothing short of a slurry bomber or a pumper would have been able to stop a fire like that once it started. Even fighting a fire fueled by a couple of gallons of spilled fuel is very hard to fight with an extinguisher. Amtrak has extinguishers in the cars, but by far the best thing to do is to just get everybody off the train. Encouraging employees or passengers to try and fight the fire leads to costly lawsuits. In all honesty, most people don’t know how to properly fight a fire with an extinguisher anyway.

 

[me]

I road this train just a few weeks ago, and the train was carrying 4 sleeper cars all at the front of the train between the baggage car and the dinning car. The last 4 cars on the train were coach seating. So from these pictures I would believe the destroyed cars were sleepers unless they changed the line-up.

 

[Michael061282]

I agree with The Journalist. Fire extinguishers were have been totally useless in this situation.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Yeah, why bother, everything's useless. I just hope there are some more positive minded folks on the train if I'm ever in a situation like this. I do find the flammability of the Superliners to be rather surprising though. You hear about US passenger trains having so many regulations, but in this area they seem to be lacking something.

 

[Jean]

While agreeing with the poster who said almost anything is flammable in the right circumstances, I believe, in general, diesel is not highly flammable, especially in a spilled state, as it requires compression to ignite. Do trucks of this type use gas (petrol)? This would indeed be highly flammable.

Jean

 

[Rider]

As an earlier post says, anything is flammable at high temperatures. Fabrics and other materials are specified as "flame-retardant", not "fire-proof." While I agree there should be more fire extinguishers on board than I have seen, a sudden burst of fire from a diesel fuel spillage directly into the interior of the car is not something one or two held-held extinguishers is likely to do much for. Passengers reported feeling and hearing a collision and immediately seeing flames rushing past their window. Too late to do much except try to evacuate, I'm afraid.

 

[Rider]

Diesel fuel is not explosive as gasoline is, but it IS highly flammable. It is quite similar to kerosene; nearly identical to home heating oil. It is not at all difficult to ignite.

 

[Shanghai]

I listened to the local NY / NJ morning radio show this morning and heard

the news item regarding the CZ train accident in Nevada. The new caster

said the Amtrak train hit the truck killing 5 people. I immediately called

the radio station (WOR) and spoke with a man in the news department and

informed him that the truck hit the train, not the train hit the truck.

He thanked me for the call and said they will futher investigate and change

the next news cast.

 

[AlanB]

Yeah, why bother, everything's useless. I just hope there are some more positive minded folks on the train if I'm ever in a situation like this. I do find the flammability of the Superliners to be rather surprising though. You hear about US passenger trains having so many regulations, but in this area they seem to be lacking something.

GeorgeB's post #62 was hidden at the time you made your post, but George is correct in what he says. Bringing a fire extinguisher to a fire like that pretty much is hopeless. You might just as well bring a bucket of water to put out the wild fires in the Southwest. That extinguisher is one's first line of defense to keep a small fire from becoming a big fire. My guess is that things on that train went from dead calm to conflagration in a matter of seconds. And that would be well beyond any extinguisher's capacity to put out. Frankly you'd be lucky to even be able to get close enough due to the immense heat to use the extinguisher.

In a situation like that, the extinguishers would actually be better saved for trying to put out flames on any passengers escaping from the burning coaches. Or maybe, just maybe you could try to keep the next coach from catching fire. But even with all the extinguishers on the train combined, and that would be 11 or 12, the crew would not be able to put out that fire.

 

[jis]

Besides I doubt that the flammability of the Superliners is the primary issue here. Almost anything will burn nicely if it is sprayed with flammable liquid and then lit. Afterall that is how one starts any fire including in a Bar-B-Q fire pit.

So it looks like a Trans-Dorm and a Coach is off the roster at least for a while if not forever. Sigh....

 

[Ryan]

Yeah, why bother, everything's useless. I just hope there are some more positive minded folks on the train if I'm ever in a situation like this. I do find the flammability of the Superliners to be rather surprising though. You hear about US passenger trains having so many regulations, but in this area they seem to be lacking something.

You know, that's really taking the "woe is Amtrak, everything sucks" attitude just a little bit too far. With a collision and fire of that magnitude, fire extinguishers were absolutely worthless You can see in some of those pictures that the firefighters involved were wearing their silver reflective "hot potato" suits because of the size and heat of the fire.

Here we are less than 24 hours after people have been killed, it's WAY too early to start playing armchair internet quarterback and start making sweeping statements indicting Amtrak over the supposed flammability of the train cars and lack of fire extinguishers.

How about you show a little bit of respect, let the professionals do their work, and once there are some answers and conclusions you can throw all the criticism at the right parties.

A far as the undamaged gates go, maybe those pictures are from the other side of the train. Again, until there are a little more facts, it's a little premature to break out the "Jump to Conclusions" mat.

 

[bombcar]

Yeah, with a fire that big, if you can move, you get out; you don't fight it with a hand-held extinguisher.

I'm not sure a train-wide surpression system would have been able to do much.

 

[Everydaymatters]

OMG! I just got off the phone and a family member who was part of the crew on that train is in the hospital. He'll be ok and the crew is being flown back to Chi today.

What I heard was horrible, but I was asked not elaborate. Sorry. Just know it has me shaking inside.

Terribly sorry for all involved.

Betty

 

[Tumbleweed]

Yeah, with a fire that big, if you can move, you get out; you don't fight it with a hand-held extinguisher.

I'm not sure a train-wide surpression system would have been able to do much.

Yes, the old saying "Pick your battles" applies here.......