CZ Train Truck Collision In Nevada (2011)

[GG-1]

Aloha

In my career in theater/movies we use Diesel fuel to have controled fire effects. there is no way a hand held extinguisher can put out that much burning fuel. Also considering the impact speed the trucks tank ruptures would have sprayed that fuel all over the cars. The important action get away from the fire as fast as possible.

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

Diesel fuel flash point is 80 plus, unlike gasoline which flash at -20. Darn sure it was above 80 at the time of the accident.

Saw some pic with an airport crash rescue truck in it. That an sure sign of an big hot fire, if they calling in an airport unit to spay foam on it.

Diesel fuel take an bit to burn, but then burn hot, no issue with the local fire dept, they seem to have an good plan, but that first unit on scene would have a need to change there underwear. This one would be a life time event for there department.

I going to be look for an after action from these guys in the fire/ems side of the house. Airport crash rescue, Navy helicopters. Someone earn there paycheck this day. Job well done.

 

[printman2000]

I road this train just a few weeks ago, and the train was carrying 4 sleeper cars all at the front of the train between the baggage car and the dinning car. The last 4 cars on the train were coach seating. So from these pictures I would believe the destroyed cars were sleepers unless they changed the line-up.

They changed the lineup. The second car was clearly a coach.

 

[printman2000]

Several people have commented that the crossing gates were still intact. Could the gates you have seen been the gates from the opposite side of the train?

 

[Guest]

Amazing the train took that kind of side impact yet never derailed.

 

[Amtrak George]

NEWS COVERAGE: I am seeing wildly conflicting reports on the net. Some say 2 dead some 5, some say up to 45 bodies still not accounted for. I hope and pray this last statement is wrong. This thing is a real gut wrencher. Gotta pray for all concerned and their families.

One report says a trucker behind this trucker saw the gates down, saw the gravel truck speeding towards the crossing, saw it brake just before impact. Distracted driving?

Minor compared to the deaths and injuries but still critical is Amtrak has lost 2 or 3 cars here and will be having difficulty covering their full consists.

A real tragedy all the way around :angry:

 

[RCrierie]

Amtrak should take this opportunity to literally atom-bomb the owner/operator of this truck into oblivion, seize their assets and then sell the trucking company off to pay for Superliner replacements.

This is criminal negligence on a scale I haven't seen in a while -- the truck went through a crossing with the flashers AND gates down into the side of a passenger train.

 

[GG-1]

Aloha

Las Vegas news 3 just reported the truck "may" have been carrying Diesel Fuel. I would think even a high school student would know a diesel truck uses diesel fuel.

 

[Rider]

Is there in fact a "black box" train operation recording device of some kind carried in the engine(s)? I saw a reference to such a thing in one of the many news articles I have been reading about this accident.

In other articles, it has been said "it is not certain if the engineer had time to sound his horn" (paraphrased) - I believe the normal and required procedure is to sound the horn (long long short long) at all grade crossings - I'm wondering if some kind of recorder would be available to verify if this indeed took place.

In fact with the modern track signaling in use, one wonders if there is an automatic system that detects the approach to crossings and sounds the horn accordingly. (Somehow I doubt this as I have observed many times that engineers often have their own distinctive rhythms in sounding the horn.)

 

[Rob_C]

This image clearly shows both gates down and intact. (which is a minor miracle considering the trailer and cab had to have some serious lateral movement during the accident.) If the truck plowed through one of them, it would clearly be bent or broken.

 

[Grandpa D]

Amazing the train took that kind of side impact yet never derailed.

My thought also. But by looking at the skid marks on the highway and the positions of the tractor and trailers of the truck it could be s/he was making a desperate attempt to stop and when that was not possible made a left turn off the highway, still trying to avoid hitting the train. The tractor struck a sideways blow to the transdorm and the first, and smaller, trailer hit the coach. The rear trailer had already broken loose and sat sideways on the highway. The angle of the impact plus the slowing of the truck by braking, turning, and the rough desert surface probably kept the train from derailing. Also in that scenario no parts of the truck hit the crossing arms.

 

[pennyk]

Betty, my thoughts are with your family member and everyone else involved. Ryan, I agree with what you said in your last post 100%.

 

[Everydaymatters]

I have heard there were 5 fatalities.

 

[Amtrak George]

When I worked for the RR in the 70's there were some locos with event recorders but IIRC they recorded speed, braking etc., but not the whistle. Now some locos actually have cameras as well that record video and audio.

Regardless, in this case there will be plenty of witnesses on the train, perhaps on the highway, that the whistle was blowing. Furthermore, legally it shouldn't make any difference when the gates were down, the lights were flashing before the engs entered the crossing., view was unobstructed, and this guy apparently wasn't even looking.

 

[Grannie_Roz]

Amazing the train took that kind of side impact yet never derailed.

My thought also. But by looking at the skid marks on the highway and the positions of the tractor and trailers of the truck it could be s/he was making a desperate attempt to stop and when that was not possible made a left turn off the highway, still trying to avoid hitting the train. The tractor struck a sideways blow to the transdorm and the first, and smaller, trailer hit the coach. The rear trailer had already broken loose and sat sideways on the highway. The angle of the impact plus the slowing of the truck by braking, turning, and the rough desert surface probably kept the train from derailing. Also in that scenario no parts of the truck hit the crossing arms.

I was just about to write something similar. I am in complete agreement with your analysis. My guess is that the driver was probably fiddling with something (radio, cd player, mp3 player, cellphone, texting, map, who knows?), heard the train whistle, looked up and realized how close he was to the crossing. At that point, the instinct is to hit the brakes. From the chatter of the skid marks, the brakes may have locked. His swerving cab clipped the gate (it looks like maybe a 3 or 4' chunk is missing) and slammed into the train left of center. If he hadn't slammed on his brakes, the force of the collision would probably caused a derailment. So a distracted driver is the most likely cause of this accident.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Yeah, why bother, everything's useless. I just hope there are some more positive minded folks on the train if I'm ever in a situation like this. I do find the flammability of the Superliners to be rather surprising though. You hear about US passenger trains having so many regulations, but in this area they seem to be lacking something.

You know, that's really taking the "woe is Amtrak, everything sucks" attitude just a little bit too far.

Um, the "everything's useless" comment was nothing more than sarcasm. The rest of the post is my honest surprise at how well Superliners burn. It was such a large area on fire that at first it seemed inherent flammability might have been a substantial part of the problem. However, in retrospect if you imagine the truck hitting the train with enough force the fuel could become more explosive than usual as it became atomized. With the truck hitting the side of a fast moving train the fuel-air mixture could cover a large area in very little time as the train flew by. That alone could explain the huge fire we saw in the pictures.

What remains to be discovered is the root cause. I saw folks referring to a stroke or heart attack or a suicide but the one theory that made the most sense to me was distracted driving. At this early stage that seems to fit the best in my view and it follows a long pattern of previous events involving truckers inadvertently causing enormous harm.

 

[The Chief]

● Local newspaper, big photo album of crash site.

● Reports say NTSB press conference scheduled for today Saturday.

● Reports say Amtrak supposed to make statement today Saturday on unaccounted-for PAX.

● Reports today concur with Friday's DPS Director interview statement that bodies still may be in PAX cars.

● Again, here's the map link.

This is a good time for us to reflect on our own emergency plans and possible contributions on board Amtrak (or commuter rail) in event of any emergency, or catastrophe -- God forbid -- during our future travels. To those who much has been given, much is expected. With our familiarity, insight, interest and intelligence, many of us on this site could really help during an on-board situation when seconds count.

Edit note: * Photos show locos uncoupled during fire, smart move by crew.

 

[DET63]

This image clearly shows both gates down and intact. (which is a minor miracle considering the trailer and cab had to have some serious lateral movement during the accident.) If the truck plowed through one of them, it would clearly be bent or broken.

If the gates came down after the accident, it wouldn't prove much of anything. Still, given that there are no hills or trees (only sagebrush or whatever grows out in the arid desert) in the area, it's hard to believe the truck driver, assuming he (I assume it was a man) was paying attention to what he was doing, would not have noticed the train in time to stop EVEN IF the gates and signals failed and the engineer failed to whistle for the crossing (none of which I consider likely). I hope there was a video cam on the locomotive to verify whether the signals were functioning properly, that the engineer sounded his horn properly, etc.

As for suing the trucking company for the damages to the Superliners, don't be surprised if the company files for bankruptcy, or lacks much in tangible or liquid assets to take.

 

[rrdude]

Yeah, why bother, everything's useless. I just hope there are some more positive minded folks on the train if I'm ever in a situation like this. I do find the flammability of the Superliners to be rather surprising though. You hear about US passenger trains having so many regulations, but in this area they seem to be lacking something.

You know, that's really taking the "woe is Amtrak, everything sucks" attitude just a little bit too far.

Um, the "everything's useless" comment was nothing more than sarcasm. The rest of the post is my honest surprise at how well Superliners burn. It was such a large area on fire that at first it seemed inherent flammability might have been a substantial part of the problem. However, in retrospect if you imagine the truck hitting the train with enough force the fuel could become more explosive than usual as it became atomized. With the truck hitting the side of a fast moving train the fuel-air mixture could cover a large area in very little time as the train flew by. That alone could explain the huge fire we saw in the pictures.

What remains to be discovered is the root cause. I saw folks referring to a stroke or heart attack or a suicide but the one theory that made the most sense to me was distracted driving. At this early stage that seems to fit the best in my view and it follows a long pattern of previous events involving truckers inadvertently causing enormous harm.

This first-person account sure speaks to this theory.

"As I looked up, I saw the train being ripped up. It created an opening in our car," Ortiz told the Lahontan Valley News & Fallon Eagle Standard newspaper in Fallon. "I saw the flames come over the windows of the side, like a quick flash of flames. Then smoked filled up everything. There was some screaming."

 

[The Chief]

10:40 a.m. update: Amtrak trains in both directions will detour through Winnemucca and Portola today ((Saturday)) to avoid the scene of a fatal crash on Friday near Lovelock.

Amtrak spokesman Steve Kulm said westbound the Amtrak train that left Chicago on Thursday will detour off the regular Union Pacific line at Winnemucca and go through Portola before rejoining the regular line again in Roseville.

Customers bound for Reno, Truckee or Colfax will get rides to their destinations from Portola, Kulm said.

The eastbound train leaving Emeryville near San Francisco today will take the same route and the Reno, Truckee and Colfax customers will be transported from Portola, he said.

 

[RPE]

Is there in fact a "black box" train operation recording device of some kind carried in the engine(s)? I saw a reference to such a thing in one of the many news articles I have been reading about this accident.

In other articles, it has been said "it is not certain if the engineer had time to sound his horn" (paraphrased) - I believe the normal and required procedure is to sound the horn (long long short long) at all grade crossings - I'm wondering if some kind of recorder would be available to verify if this indeed took place.

In fact with the modern track signaling in use, one wonders if there is an automatic system that detects the approach to crossings and sounds the horn accordingly. (Somehow I doubt this as I have observed many times that engineers often have their own distinctive rhythms in sounding the horn.)

Yes. The engines have an Event Recorder. It would record the speed and any use of the Horn on the train. The use of the horn is not automatic, as some communities have Anti-whistiling by laws and the horn is not used at some designated crossings. (At least that is true in Canada)

 

[Tumbleweed]

Let us pray that this tragedy will help to increase the awareness of RR crossings and the inherent dangers associated with them......

 

[rrdude]

Let us pray that this tragedy will help to increase the awareness of RR crossings and the inherent dangers associated with them......

All the previous grade-crossing collisions haven't yet, so if I were a betting man........................

I doubt in the middle of the dessert there are any "community restrictions on horns." Even when there are restrictions in place, the engineer, when sensing a motorist is "cutting it a little too close" will usually lay on the horn....

Hopefully there were some railfans on board with their camcorders running..........

 

[Dan O]

Were there any skid marks on the pavement or dirt that may have indicated the driver attempted to stop?

Dan

 

[rrdude]

Were there any skid marks on the pavement or dirt that may have indicated the driver attempted to stop?

Dan

YES, but FAR TOO CLOSE, in no way enuff distance. So, speculating, that removes the suicide option. I'm placing my bets on "Distracted Driving". Find the cell phone records, and POOF! At about the same time that the Amtrak even-recorder indicates the train went into emergency, there were text messages rec/sent on the deceased drivers phone.......speculation.