Empire Builder discussion 2023 Q4 - 2024

[ebnewb]

Reading this thread, I get the impression that EB #8 is a better choice than #28? I can board from either Portland or Seattle probably getting a roomette. Mainly I want to avoid the possibility of a bus ride from Portland and also want to try the dining car experience. Thank you.

 

[acelafan]

I prefer the dining car, too, so I would opt for #8. You will get a dinner that way.

 

[zephyr17]

Reading this thread, I get the impression that EB #8 is a better choice than #28? I can board from either Portland or Seattle probably getting a roomette. Mainly I want to avoid the possibility of a bus ride from Portland and also want to try the dining car experience. Thank you.

I prefer the dining car, too, so I would opt for #8. You will get a dinner that way.

Personally, I like having the Sightseer over the diner. And I find Columbia River Gorge more scenic than Stevens Pass, which has a lot of "tree tunnel". It is one of the few places the views are better from the road (US 2) than the railroad.

But since my home station is Everett, second stop out of Seattle, I choose the diner and the tree tunnel over the Sightseer and the Gorge most of the time. I have taken special trips down to Portland to head east on the Builder, though.

Since you want the diner, the Seattle section is the choice.

The chances of getting bustituted is about equal on both. Usually, if there is a bustitution to/from Spokane, both sections of the Builder get bustituted.

 

[trimetbusfan]

Reading this thread, I get the impression that EB #8 is a better choice than #28? I can board from either Portland or Seattle probably getting a roomette. Mainly I want to avoid the possibility of a bus ride from Portland and also want to try the dining car experience. Thank you.

I wouldn't worry about the bus part. But yes, going to Seattle and catching 8 is worth getting the dinner, IMO.

However, it is up to you on how much you value dinner and what scenery you want to see. The scenery on 28 has much more water, whereas on 8 it is more mountainous (but you do follow the water for the first hour or so leaving SEA).

However, you might want to price out train 8 vs 28. With Amtrak's variable pricing scale, they can be about the same price, but on some days they can also be hundreds of dollars different in cost.

 

[railiner]

I'm on my first empire building trip on Saturday. Can you see the Aurora Borealis from this train if there is no solar storms?

IIRC, there is no Aurora Borealis unless there is a solar “storm”…

 

[PaTrainFan]

I've done both. My third trip, I opted for the breathtaking scenery of Columbia River over the full dining experience.

 

[SteveSFL]

I found the ride along the Columbia River gorge to be the second best scenery I’ve ever seen on Amtrak (the first being the Rockies on the California Zephyr). And the times I’ve ridden 28, the boxed dinner was very good. But I’ve heard they may have changed caterers a while back. And going west the breakfast was not good.

 

[MARC Rider]

On some travel videos I saw, it looked like the Stevens Pass route had some nice snow-covered craggy mountain type scenery, but given that 8 leaves Seattle at 4:55 PM, you're only going to see it in the high summer, otherwise it will be dark. On my trip last November, we left Seattle 3-4 hours late, and it was dark even before we left the station. Not dinner in the dining car the first night, either. They let the sleeper passenger order from a limited selection off the cafe menu. However, we did see more of western Montana in the morning. The scenery from West Glacier to East Glacier is pretty good, including some really good Rocky Mountain views going over the Continental Divide and a nice descent off the Rocky Mountain front. It sort of made up for the snowstorm over the Yellowhead Pass that obscured all the good views on the Canadian.

 

[ebnewb]

..
The chances of getting bustituted is about equal on both. Usually, if there is a bustitution to/from Spokane, both sections of the Builder get bustituted.

How frequent does bustitution occur? Does Amtrak indicate in advance on their site?

 

[zephyr17]

How frequent does bustitution occur? Does Amtrak indicate in advance on their site?

The bustitutions between Spokane and Seattle/Portland are generally unplanned with no advance notice. They are usually a response to an extremely late running train. The Builder sections have only few hours to get turned at the endpoints, so a severely late train leads to cascading delays and that consist pretty much cannot get back on schedule without a trip getting cancelled. So they turn the train in Spokane and run buses to and from Portland and Seattle, enabling an on time or close to on time eastbound departure from Spokane.

Unfortunately, in recent years, they have been running the train through even if severely late more frequently rather than bustituting. That's probably because last minute bus charters seem to have become much more difficult to arrange since COVID. The resulting cascading delays ultimately cause the cancellation of a 7/8 round trip in order to get that consist back on schedule.

 

[zephyr17]

On some travel videos I saw, it looked like the Stevens Pass route had some nice snow-covered craggy mountain type scenery,

I go over Stevens Pass regularly, both by the Builder and driving. There are spectacular views of very steep and craggy, Alp-like Cascades mountains. However, the railroad is hemmed in by dense forest so those views are generally quick and fleeting through breaks in the trees. The views on Stevens are significantly better driving on US 2.

The sustained, wide open views of the spectacular Columbia Gorge are much more more consistent and enjoyable to me than the quick flashes through the trees over Stevens.

 

[niemi24s]

One of the nifty things about driving over Stevens Pass is you can wait patiently at the pull-off at the East Portal and watch the ventilation doors open just before a train either emerges or enters. After a train clears the tunnel the doors will close and the huge ventilation fans can be heard spooling up to suck out the exhaust fumes.

This present tunnel is actually the third route to conquer Stevens Pass. The first route had no tunnel and was a marvel unto itself.

 

[Willbridge]

The only solution is to ride both routes.

Columbia from Train 28 on a cloudy day.

 

[danasgoodstuff]

The only solution is to ride both routes.

Columbia from Train 28 on a cloudy day.
View attachment 36719

I usually drive this way several times per year, and have for decades. it never gets old.

 

[Maglev]

I see from a video on Facebook that there is a second coach on the Seattle section of trains that departed Chicago on May 23 and earlier. Hopefully, this will remain until at least fall.

 

[JTN7]

Removed. Will find out on trip.

 

[zephyr17]

7/27(24) is getting turned at Spokane and is being bustituted SPK-SEA (and presumably SPK-PDX).

 

[jis]

This massive derailment happened this morning on the route of the Empire Builder

https://www.fox9.com/news/big-lake-...hem&utm_medium=trueanthem&utm_source=facebook

Apparently the Empire Builder will be diverting on an alternate route around the derailment.

 

[Cal]

Apparently the Empire Builder will be diverting on an alternate route around the derailment.

Is the alternate route the northern transcon? Or is the EBs normal route part of the northern transcon?

 

[jis]

I guess it is the other route around Devil’s Lake.

EB’s regular route is the BNSF ex-GN Northern Transcon.

 

[Cal]

Which subdivision(s) was the EB rerouted onto?

 

[Cal]

 

[39kartma]

Looking at data from railrat.net, the Empire Builder was rerouted onto the ex Great Northern via Willmar, MN.

Incidentally, this was the route of the pre-Amtrak Empire Builder. Today’s routing uses the ex-Northern Pacific between Minneapolis and Fargo.

https://railrat.net/trains/8/

 

[JayPea]

Looking at data from railrat.net, the Empire Builder was rerouted onto the ex Great Northern via Willmar, MN.

Incidentally, this was the route of the pre-Amtrak Empire Builder. Today’s routing uses the ex-Northern Pacific between Minneapolis and Fargo.

https://railrat.net/trains/8/

I traveled that route when I rode the Great Northern's Empire Builder between Spokane and Chicago in 1965, when I was 5. For some reason I don't remember much of it.

 

[Pswiderski]

This massive derailment happened this morning on the route of the Empire Builder

https://www.fox9.com/news/big-lake-...hem&utm_medium=trueanthem&utm_source=facebook

Apparently the Empire Builder will be diverting on an alternate route around the derailment.

I'm curious. When the EB builder or any of the other LD trains is rerouted such as this was, does another engineer need to ride along or does the original engineer know the alternate routes as well?