Empire Builder discussion 2023 Q4 - 2024

[Harmon Shay]

You know, I suspect that Amtrak, with what I believe is its built-in Washington DC-based lack of understanding of its West Coast markets, is actually seeing the Empire Builder as one long distance train, not two. They're saying "why does this train from Chicago to the little city of Seattle and it's small suburb Portland have four coaches, when the mighty Southwest Chief to Los Angeles has only two." To me, that's the only way that switching second Seattle coach to the Southwest Chief in the middle of the summer season makes sense.

 

[Cal]

You know, I suspect that Amtrak, with what I believe is its built-in Washington DC-based lack of understanding of its West Coast markets, is actually seeing the Empire Builder as one long distance train, not two. They're saying "why does this train from Chicago to the little city of Seattle and it's small suburb Portland have four coaches, when the mighty Southwest Chief to Los Angeles has only two." To me, that's the only way that switching second Seattle coach to the Southwest Chief in the middle of the summer season makes sense.

I sincerely hope anyone in Amtrak's management would have a basic understanding of geography and know how big (and separate) Seattle and Portland are.

 

[Harmon Shay]

In my experience over the years since the start of Amtrak, I think my theory is entirely plausible.

 

[Willbridge]

In my experience over the years since the start of Amtrak, I think my theory is entirely plausible.

I second the motion. One of the reasons that the Portland section of the Builder was added was because a particular Amtrak employee in DC understood that a Pasco <> Portland link would create a schedule path into California. Before that, they kept dismissing endpoint Portland.

In 1973, Amtrak considered moving out of Portland Union Station in favor of an Amshack near Willbridge. I called Senator Hatfield's office, and they put a stop to that. Willbridge was in the only Portland ZIP code that generated no Amtrak customers. It was on the hourly Linnton bus line. There were some old rooming houses out there, but no hotels or motels.

To their credit, when we were working on what became the Pioneer, some people came out from DC and took a look at the route. None of them had been west of Denver before. Uniformly, they were stunned by the scenery and the good condition of the infrastructure -- and Portland Union Station. I should note that by 1975 they had some people in Los Angeles who were aware of the potentials.

 

[Bonser]

Amtrak changed Suppliers for the Boxed Meals in Portland a few years back, and they are no longer very good.( the Breakfast loaded in Spokane has never been anything to write Home about)

Portland has plenty of good places to eat, so having a late Lunch/early Supper is a good idea.

I’ll be taking the Builder WB from Chicago to Portland. What’s the breakfast like on the morning of arrival?

 

[Hepcat66]

I’ll be taking the Builder WB from Chicago to Portland. What’s the breakfast like on the morning of arrival?

We took that route last summer and will never forget that quickie sack breakfast. The attendant warmed up our bagels, but unfortunately used a microwave oven. It somehow transformed those bagels into some exotic material with incredible strength. We were unable to take a single bite.

 

[Harmon Shay]

I second the motion. One of the reasons that the Portland section of the Builder was added was because a particular Amtrak employee in DC understood that a Pasco <> Portland link would create a schedule path into California. Before that, they kept dismissing endpoint Portland.

In 1973, Amtrak considered moving out of Portland Union Station in favor of an Amshack near Willbridge. I called Senator Hatfield's office, and they put a stop to that. Willbridge was in the only Portland ZIP code that generated no Amtrak customers. It was on the hourly Linnton bus line. There were some old rooming houses out there, but no hotels or motels.

To their credit, when we were working on what became the Pioneer, some people came out from DC and took a look at the route. None of them had been west of Denver before. Uniformly, they were stunned by the scenery and the good condition of the infrastructure -- and Portland Union Station. I should note that by 1975 they had some people in Los Angeles who were aware of the potentials.

That's fascinating about Portland but not surprising. A fellow I once knew at Amtrak in DC, one of the good guys, once told me one summer that the Pioneer was a joke. I said, "no it's not, it's selling out most days with three Amfleet coaches, one of them an 84 seater diverted from the Seattle-Portland corridor, because they've been having trouble with standees east of Portland" (because stations along the route were mostly Amshacks, the reservation policy wasn't being well enforced). He said he was surprised and probably should look into that.

 

[oregon pioneer]

I’ll be taking the Builder WB from Chicago to Portland. What’s the breakfast like on the morning of arrival?

I took the route this past winter. I was offered a selection from the cafe menu (breakfast sandwich heated in the microwave, instant oatmeal or cold cereal, breakfast bar or pastry, coffee, tea, and milk). It looked like a convenience store breakfast. Being as this is my home route, I know the drill and I was prepared with my own home made honey-maple-nut granola. I took a yogurt, some milk for my granola, and a cup of coffee. They asked me if I was sure I didn't want some of the other stuff, LOL. I don't eat convenience-store food if I can possibly avoid it.

 

[Cal]

own home made honey-maple-nut granola

That sounds delicious!

 

[Archivist&Librarian]

So, I am scheduled to take the EB from Everett on 8/4 to Chicago. I will be travelling east from there. I'm not liking the lengthy delays I am seeing, but I guess it is adventure time again. I took this route last year. We ended up over two hours late arriving in Chicago and I (and several others) missed our connecting trains. Amtrak put us up for the night. I am glad that we were late due to the butterfly effect. Won't go into the details here.

 

[Northwestern]

I took the Empire Builder #28 from Portland to Whitefish, and back, 3 weeks ago. A couple of observations:

Eastbound the meals in the "cafe car" (I call it a snack car) were not all that great. The microwave hamburger was, at best, edible as were the assortment of snacks and drinks. It took a long time , in line, to get to the counter, with the host barking out orders as to where to stand in line. I would have preferred a food truck, at the Portland station, for an early meal before boarding.

The temperatures in Montana were in the mid 90's when I was there. On the return, the westbound Builder slowed, significantly, through N. Dakota and Montana due to the heat. The train arrived in Whitefish 3.5 hours late. Eastbound, from Portland, the train was pretty much on time into Whitefish as much of the route from Portland to Montana was in the evening and overnight, with cooler temps.

 

[zephyr17]

So, I am scheduled to take the EB from Everett on 8/4 to Chicago. I will be travelling east from there. I'm not liking the lengthy delays I am seeing, but I guess it is adventure time again. I took this route last year. We ended up over two hours late arriving in Chicago and I (and several others) missed our connecting trains. Amtrak put us up for the night. I am glad that we were late due to the butterfly effect. Won't go into the details here.

7(2), whose consist will be turned to become 8(4), looks to be doing all right currently, just 28 minutes late at Wolf Point per asm.transitdocs.com. So right now things are looking good for turning the train tomorrow. If it keeps up, you won't have a super late departure from Everett due to a late turn or a bustitution to Spokane.

The current lengthy delays are mostly due to heat related speed restrictions. Those not only slow the train down, they make the entire railroad less fluid and so increases delays due to "freight interference". It kind of snowballs.

 

[Archivist&Librarian]

7(2), whose consist will be turned to become 8(4), looks to be doing all right currently, just 28 minutes late at Wolf Point per asm.transitdocs.com. So right now things are looking good for turning the train tomorrow. If it keeps up, you won't have a super late departure from Everett due to a late turn or a bustitution to Spokane.

The current lengthy delays are mostly due to heat related speed restrictions. Those not only slow the train down, they make the entire railroad less fluid and so increases delays due to "freight interference". It kind of snowballs.

Yeah, I've been following the Amtrack's track your train website closely. Looks like the 7 has slowed to 40mph in Montana and is now 48 minutes late.

Funny thing, the trip back might be really good on time. I'm a weathergeek and I noticed that past Central Washington, the 8 may be travelling behind a cold front the entire way to Chicago.

 

[zephyr17]

Yeah, I've been following the Amtrack's track your train website closely. Looks like the 7 has slowed to 40mph in Montana and is now 48 minutes late.

Funny thing, the trip back might be really good on time. I'm a weathergeek and I noticed that past Central Washington, the 8 may be travelling behind a cold front the entire way to Chicago.

48 minutes late for the Builder is nothing. That can be made up and there are about 30 minute pads into both Spokane and Seattle. It'll need to be an hour or more late into Seattle before it starts affecting 8's departure.

 

[WWW]

7(2), whose consist will be turned to become 8(4), looks to be doing all right currently, just 28 minutes late at Wolf Point per asm.transitdocs.com. So right now things are looking good for turning the train tomorrow. If it keeps up, you won't have a super late departure from Everett due to a late turn or a bustitution to Spokane.

The current lengthy delays are mostly due to heat related speed restrictions. Those not only slow the train down, they make the entire railroad less fluid and so increases delays due to "freight interference". It kind of snowballs.

 

[WWW]

Possible heat derailing those freights --- too much stress on the continious rail tracks ?
But then does the CR have to be real serious contiuious - to an event horizon ?

 

[BoulderCO]

Nice lengthily article in today's NY Times about using a rail pass and the Empire Builder to explore small towns along it's route. Well done.

 

[Eternityroad]

Nice lengthily article in today's NY Times about using a rail pass and the Empire Builder to explore small towns along it's route. Well done.

I just trashed my plans for a Rail Pass vacation from Las Vegas to New Hampshire and return by way of Empire Builder. Due to connections I would have to spend a ton of money on hotels unless I wanted to Uber a ways from the stations. The cost would be two to three times the cost of the Rail Pass. Oh yes, gotta figure in good costs. Maybe next year when I have more money for the added expense.

K.

 

[F900ElCapitan]

I just trashed my plans for a Rail Pass vacation from Las Vegas to New Hampshire and return by way of Empire Builder. Due to connections I would have to spend a ton of money on hotels unless I wanted to Uber a ways from the stations. The cost would be two to three times the cost of the Rail Pass. Oh yes, gotta figure in good costs. Maybe next year when I have more money for the added expense.

K.

That’s a bummer! I’m sure you’ve thought about it, but there is always the possibility of riding the regional services to or from cheaper destinations (think Oxnard, somewhere between Eugene and Seattle, Milwaukee, etc.) to help with the hotel costs.

 

[Eternityroad]

Thanks for the suggestion. I don't like the prospect of navigating regional services in towns i am unaquainted with. Trust me, there was a time I did a lot of that back in my hitchhiking days, but I am older now and want things to be a bit simpler. It isn't off the table by any means. But this year I am contenting myself with a roadtrip to Lake Tahoe!

 

[Rasputin]

I see that 8(30) is operating 13 hours 30 minutes late due to an apparent locomotive breakdown near Ephrata, WA. Arrival in Chicago is expected to be 2:39 a.m. Sept. 2.

There is a discussion on another list that Amtrak no longer has a spare locomotive at Spokane. Not sure how long that has been going on.

 

[JWM]

I see that 8(30) is operating 13 hours 30 minutes late due to an apparent locomotive breakdown near Ephrata, WA. Arrival in Chicago is expected to be 2:39 a.m. Sept. 2.

There is a discussion on another list that Amtrak no longer has a spare locomotive at Spokane. Not sure how long that has been going on.

This is ridiculous! What are we? Maybe a "Banana Republic"? Is this one of the new "Chargers"?

 

[Cal]

I see that 8(30) is operating 13 hours 30 minutes late due to an apparent locomotive breakdown near Ephrata, WA. Arrival in Chicago is expected to be 2:39 a.m. Sept. 2.

There is a discussion on another list that Amtrak no longer has a spare locomotive at Spokane. Not sure how long that has been going on.

Yeah the engine just died and I think they were without power for 8-9 hours.

 

[west point]

Did it loose HEP until getting to Spokane?

 

[chadamfleetrailfan]

I saw via railcam earlier today that my favorite engine (301 - Day 1 livery) was leading on 9/1's #7 (shown below). It's always cool to see this leading on the Empire Builder...