Fare Buckets - and when do they increase/decrease?

[Carolyn Bryat]

There is a 25% cancellation fee on sleeper tickets canceled within 4 months of scheduled departure. There is no change fee.

I traveled the EB from Columbus WI to Seattle in January. Booked roomettes both ways back in early Sept...Watched Amtrak's site daily. Two days before Thanksgiving, the price one way dropped $250, and 3 days later the price dropped $250 the other way. In each instance, I called Cust Service, and the agent "rebooked" me at the lower price, thus saving me $500 on a round trip original fare of over $1900...I then did a "bid up" for each of the two. I won one of the bids for $300 for a Bedroom, didn't win the other (there were 3 empty Bedrooms coming back, so go figure). So I ended up spending $1700 round trip, roomette one way, bedroom the other.

 

[niemi24s]

28(9/05) has 4 Roomettes at the $1502 bucket, and 2 Bedrooms at the $3337 bucket.

Thanks for this info. This confirms the suspicion of a total of 8 different buckets for Roomettes and Bedrooms on the EB.

FWIW, a high bucket roundtrip to SEA for two adults in a Roomette one way and a Bedroom the other way would be only $5,183. Who says you can't get blood out of a turnip?

Should have the bucket chart updated in a day or two.

 

[trimetbusfan]

Thanks for this info. This confirms the suspicion of a total of 8 different buckets for Roomettes and Bedrooms on the EB.

FWIW, a high bucket roundtrip to SEA for two adults in a Roomette one way and a Bedroom the other way would be only $5,183. Who says you can't get blood out of a turnip?

Should have the bucket chart updated in a day or two.

Luckily that high bucket seems to not pop up that often. (For now?) 10-11 months out the roomettes seems to pretty consistently be priced at the $1098 bucket

 

[zephyr17]

Only low buckets seem to be the Meteor and the Star. Every other fare seems to be the two highest buckets .

That is consistent with what I've observed, that things are mostly in the top two buckets 6-11 months out.

Reallocation of inventory seems to take place most frequently around 4-6 months out. 6 months to the day, I'd expect most everything to still be in the top couple. In planning for trips, I generally start checking systematically at 6 months so as to catch any drop soon after it happens, but I don't expect to see it right at 6 months.

I also check the amount of open inventory as far as I am able (8 rooms). If 8 are available, I'll be expecting a drop, if very few, I won't be.

Note my definition if "top two" are on the old 5 bucket system. With up to 8 now, I am not sure.

I am with you about not purchasing high buckets, I won't pay it either. But I've always been able to get what I want for less (the "old" middle bucket was my outside limit. I aimed for two lower 2 and have usually been able to get them).

 

[Sauve850]

I have begun to use up my Amtrak points and now continue to build points on airline credit cards. My every summer cross country west coast to south Florida train trips in bedrooms look to be over for me. I do have two trips scheduled in September starting in Chicago now back to south Florida. I booked a Cardinal bedroom 10 months out ( they dont last long ) for 17-18000 points Chicago to Alexandria. Last week I booked the Alexandria to West Palm Beach leg in a roomette for 17,005 points on the Star. A bedroom was 57,000 points! I wont pay that amount.
Part of my return trip is flying from Salt Lake City to Chicago, afternoon flight, first class for 18,500 American Airlines points. Think that was a fluke but I grabbed it.

 

[niemi24s]

Just began checking the increased fares on the CZ and found what I believe to be the new high bucket of $3196. That's 41% more than the previous $2261 high bucket.

 

[joelkfla]

Out of curiosity I checked sleeper fares exactly six months from today October 9
from endpoints. Senior fare one person
NY to Chi LS roomette $726 bedroom $1483
NY to Chi Card(day before) roomette $470 no bedroom available
Was to Chi CL $630 $973
NY to NOL $456 $1268
NY to Mia Star $536 $1598
NY to Mia Meteor $471 $1415
NOL to Lax SL $942 $1971
Chi to Sea EB $1066 $2273
Chi to Pdx EB $1068 $2274
Chi to EMY CZ $1069 $2180
Chi to LAX SW Chief $1162 $2210
Chi to LAX TE(day before) $876 $1910
Chi to NOL CONO $456 $1268
Sea to LAX CS $827 $1383

Only low buckets seem to be the Meteor and the Star. Every other fare seems to be the two highest buckets .

Notice all bedrooms on the EB CZ and the SW Chief are over $2000. Again this is one person. Add another passenger it’s $200 more.

No way I would pay any of these prices with the possible exception of the Cardinal,Crescent and the Meteor,but that’s me.

Cardinal Roomette is 2nd lowest bucket.

 

[pennyk]

I have begun to use up my Amtrak points and now continue to build points on airline credit cards. My every summer cross country west coast to south Florida train trips in bedrooms look to be over for me. I do have two trips scheduled in September starting in Chicago now back to south Florida. I booked a Cardinal bedroom 10 months out ( they dont last long ) for 17-18000 points Chicago to Alexandria. Last week I booked the Alexandria to West Palm Beach leg in a roomette for 17,005 points on the Star. A bedroom was 57,000 points! I wont pay that amount.
Part of my return trip is flying from Salt Lake City to Chicago, afternoon flight, first class for 18,500 American Airlines points. Think that was a fluke but I grabbed it.

I am in a similar situation, however, I do not fly. I figure my cross country trips are over now also. Because of the limited number of bedrooms on the Silvers, the cost has been through the roof.

 

[Sauve850]

I am in a similar situation, however, I do not fly. I figure my cross country trips are over now also. Because of the limited number of bedrooms on the Silvers, the cost has been through the roof.

Its tough if you dont fly. Its not an adventure for me just gets me from a to b. Ill still take the train but shorter routes I guess. I do like to cruise. Its a better value than Amtrak as I gamble and receive nice benefits. Things go in cycles so who knows maybe affordable cross country trips will reappear at some point

 

[Willbridge]

Lufthansa says that I should visit some other countries if I want to spend my travel dollars wisely. And they'll give me a calendar to check out alternative travel days.

 

[zephyr17]

Lufthansa says that I should visit some other countries if I want to spend my travel dollars wisely. And they'll give me a calendar to check out alternative travel days.

Lufthansa has a reservation system that wasn't coded in cuneiform.

 

[zetharion]

Just began checking the increased fares on the CZ and found what I believe to be the new high bucket of $3196. That's 41% more than the previous $2261 high bucket.

Your chart is gonna double in size pretty soon.

 

[daybeers]

These are just ludicrous prices. I'm starting to worry about the value of my points. Might as well try to start dumping them if they're jacking up the prices so much now...

 

[zephyr17]

Since I don't book Bedrooms and travel in the off season, I am sticking tight for now. In fact, I probably will not be booking an Amtrak sleeper trip this year at all. I'm going to go both directions on my New York trip on the Canadian this year, cashing in VIA Preference points for one way. I am more concerned about the longevity of the beloved Budd fleet than Amtrak fares currently and decided I want to maximize my Canadian rides right now.

 

[joelkfla]

(admins please move if irrelevant).

28(9/05) has 4 Roomettes at the $1502 bucket, and 2 Bedrooms at the $3337 bucket.

Actually it's worse than that -- BR is $3377! But Family Bedroom is a bargain at merely $1,957.

Also 28(5/01) - Roomettes sold out, 1 BR @ $3377.

 

[Katymo]

I am late into this discussion. Please let me know where I can check fares. I used to be able to plan and schedule my own trips on the Amtrak site. I miss that feature.

Thanks.

 

[ClintonAndrews]

(admins please move if irrelevant).

28(9/05) has 4 Roomettes at the $1502 bucket, and 2 Bedrooms at the $3337 bucket.

Does anybody know how often these roomettes roll unsold? What does Amtrak do when a roomette is unsold and the day of travel is fast approaching?

 

[zephyr17]

I am late into this discussion. Please let me know where I can check fares. I used to be able to plan and schedule my own trips on the Amtrak site. I miss that feature.

Thanks.

Amtrak.com. You still can. Make dummy bookings, then back out before payment. That is how I do it, and in all probability, how all other posters here do it.

As mentioned in other posts, it limits the number of reservation attempts and will start to throw generic errors (something along the lines of "your request cannot be processed at this time") somewhere around 10 requests. Switching browsers has been reported to possibly get around that.

 

[trimetbusfan]

Does anybody know how often these roomettes roll unsold? What does Amtrak do when a roomette is unsold and the day of travel is fast approaching?

They can try to drop it down to a low bucket to see if someone will take it. For example, you can get an end to end roomette or bedroom on tomorrows train 28 for the lowest bucket. (Not bad!).



Amtrak tries to let people bidup into rooms now... (Which, if lucky, you can get into a room for cheaper than the lowest bucket).

This doesn't meet rooms still won’t roll empty. But with high demand and low availability (plus reasons listed above) I believe this happens at a smaller scale than it used to.

 

[zephyr17]

They can try to drop it down to a low bucket to see if someone will take it. For example, you can get an end to end roomette or bedroom on tomorrows train 28 for the lowest bucket. (Not bad!).

View attachment 31979

Amtrak tries to let people bidup into rooms now... (Which, if lucky, you can get into a room for cheaper than the lowest bucket).

This doesn't meet rooms still won’t roll empty. But with high demand and low availability (plus reasons listed above) I believe this happens at a smaller scale than it used to.

That's the way it is supposed to work! Glad they were on top of it, I don't think they always are.

 

[zephyr17]

Inspired by @trimetbusfan I just ran a bunch of fares for roomettes SEA-CHI over the next couple of weeks.

The good news is I found several days with (new) low bucket fares of $588, and more in next bucket up of $653, so there is a lot of low-ish fare availability over the next couple weeks. At least for the Builder, Amtrak yield management appears to acting appropriately right now.

The bad news is I think I found one day with the new top fare, which represents a significant increase over the old high bucket, $1,500.

I found 7 different fares, so, if the new system is 8 buckets, I got most of them. I sent them to @niemi24s in a PM.

Based on what I found, I am going to look at fares at several points further out to get a feel for how they're pricing with these new buckets after my access unlocks (right now I am not going to fool around with downloading Firefox which I lost when I did a clean Windows reinstall last year and never put back).

 

[Sidney]

A low bucket on the EB tomorrow yet booking eleven months out it’s the two highest buckets. That is what is so damn frustrating with Amtrak’s pricing structure, I will not pay anything but low bucket. Many people would like to plan cross country sleeper trips as far in advance as they can, Yes,I know Amtrak will refund the difference when the price drops, but I won’t shell out the higher bucket prices to begin with.

In a perfect Amtrak world all sleepers would be low bucket, one price all the time. Under $1000 for a bedroom from both endpoints tomorrow, That’s what the price should be all the time. $2000 plus for a bedroom is insane.

 

[trimetbusfan]

A low bucket on the EB tomorrow yet booking eleven months out it’s the two highest buckets. That is what is so damn frustrating with Amtrak’s pricing structure, I will not pay anything but low bucket. Many people would like to plan cross country sleeper trips as far in advance as they can, Yes,I know Amtrak will refund the difference when the price drops, but I won’t shell out the higher bucket prices to begin with.

In a perfect Amtrak world all sleepers would be low bucket, one price all the time. Under $1000 for a bedroom from both endpoints tomorrow, That’s what the price should be all the time. $2000 plus for a bedroom is insane.

I was looking at SWC fares in August. There are numerous days where you can ride 3 from CHI to LAX for low bucket around August 15-30.

 

[zephyr17]

A low bucket on the EB tomorrow yet booking eleven months out it’s the two highest buckets. That is what is so damn frustrating with Amtrak’s pricing structure, I will not pay anything but low bucket. Many people would like to plan cross country sleeper trips as far in advance as they can, Yes,I know Amtrak will refund the difference when the price drops, but I won’t shell out the higher bucket prices to begin with.

In a perfect Amtrak world all sleepers would be low bucket, one price all the time. Under $1000 for a bedroom from both endpoints tomorrow, That’s what the price should be all the time. $2000 plus for a bedroom is insane.

As I said before, Amtrak practices yield management and it makes no sense from a yield management standpoint to sell your inventory at a low price early on when your projection of demand is fuzzy and so block that inventory from sale at higher price point later as demand develops. You allocate inventory to lower buckets when you have a clearer picture of demand. That is how yield management is done, you will find airfares, for example, are generally pretty high 11 months in advance, too.

Prizes are not awarded for early booking as they once were before Amtrak's yield management practices improved.

Sleeper accommodations are a scarce commodity with high demand. A fair price is what a willing seller and willing buyer agree on. A price that someone is willing to press the purchase button on is, by definition, not insane.

I will not pay more than the lower buckets myself. That is my choice. I play the game and am usually able to play it well enough to get low/lower, typically in the 5 month out range. I will refuse pay $1500, the new top bucket for a roomette on the Builder, but I also do not feel I am entitled to get one at $588, either because I do not like or cannot afford $1500. No one has to ride in a sleeper to get to where they need to go and a better fare is usually obtainable with some patience, work and flexibility anyway.

Personally, I like VIA's system with stable seasonally based fares, but I also think it makes less economic sense than yield management. I have no quarrel with yield management as long as it is done right, with few rooms going out empty. If everything was always booked, it indicates pricing is too low. If a lot are empty, pricing is too high. In either case, money is being left on the table.

This is Econ 101. The iron laws of supply and demand in action. There are ways to ration scarce commodities other than price, all of them less equitable.

 

[Winecliff Station]

As I said before, Amtrak practices yield management and it makes no sense from a yield management standpoint to sell your inventory at a low price early on when your projection of demand is fuzzy and so block that inventory from sale at higher price point later as demand develops. You allocate inventory to lower buckets when you have a clearer picture of demand. That is how yield management is done, you will find airfares, for example, are generally pretty high 11 months in advance, too.

Prizes are not awarded for early booking as they once were before Amtrak's yield management practices improved.

Sleeper accommodations are a scarce commodity with high demand. A fair price is what a willing seller and willing buyer agree on. A price that someone is willing to press the purchase button on is, by definition, not insane.

I will not pay more than the lower buckets myself. That is my choice. I play the game and am usually able to play it well enough to get low/lower, typically in the 5 month out range. I will refuse pay $1500, the new top bucket for a roomette on the Builder, but I also do not feel I am entitled to get one at $588, either because I do not like or cannot afford $1500. No one has to ride in a sleeper to get to where they need to go and a better fare is usually obtainable with some patience, work and flexibility anyway.

Personally, I like VIA's system with stable seasonally based fares, but I also think it makes less economic sense than yield management. I have no quarrel with yield management as long as it is done right, with few rooms going out empty. If everything was always booked, it indicates pricing is too low. If a lot are empty, pricing is too high. In either case, money is being left on the table.

This is Econ 101. The iron laws of supply and demand in action. There are ways to ration scarce commodities other than price, all of them less equitable.

All of this would make a lot more sense if there weren’t so many sleepers running empty. Demand is apparently not as high as Amtrak likes to think it is. Others in this thread have mentioned that it’s as if Amtrak wants sales to be poor with the end results being no sleepers in the future. I’m not sure what the purpose of that would be, other than cutting crew positions so you only have coach attendants and cafe car service, and I don’t know how much savings that would bring, but the only other explanation is that it’s in the hands of someone who failed that Econ 101 class you mention.