Oops! Thanx for pointing that out. Here's the amended version:btw, your chart for roommates on trains 27/28 are showing the FB rates and not the roomette rates
Fare Buckets - and when do they increase/decrease?
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How can I bring up the fare buckets on my computer?
What link do I use? Thanks
What link do I use? Thanks
It’s two posts above yours. It’s official thread is here. Newest chart is also the last post in that thread.
https://www.amtraktrains.com/threads/long-distance-train-coach-sleeper-fares-buckets.77062/
You don't from Amtrak. They are not publicly available.
@niemi24s has done all here a huge favor by painstakingly compiling fare data on many trains on many days to find the various price points that are offered and compiling them in the chart linked in the prior post.
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Coach, Roomette, Family Bedroom, Bedroom
Some here might assert they stand for Credible, Ridiculous, Fairly Bodacious and Bodacious!
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How about this?
November 17 Vancouver to Toronto discounted "cabin for 2" USD 2,883.
November 17 Seattle to Detroit, bedroom with shower and toilet en suite USD 1,835.
Consider this for additional service.
November 17 Vancouver to Toronto discounted "cabin for 2" USD 2,883.
November 17 Seattle to Detroit, bedroom with shower and toilet en suite USD 1,835.
Consider this for additional service.
I think it's difficult to compare VIA and Amtrak fares because VIA Rail fares don't seem to have as much volatility. Your SEA - DET fare of $1835 (if those were the stations entered for your search) would be for some of the lowest buckets on the CS and CZ.
The other side of that coin would be the fare for some date when both of those trains chanced to be at their highest bucket. The fare for that same trip in a Bedroom would then be in the vicinity of $4,500!
Consider that for additional . . .uh . . . consideration?
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Amtrak's across the board floating fare scheme may not be the best strategy. But of course what is the best strategy depends on what the actual goals for its operation are. There has always been considerable confusion about that, since to some extent its inception was based on what some consider to be, a partial lie.
For a large example of selective floating fares, Indian Railways does floating fares, but selectively. One thing they do not float is the fare for the highest class, and that is because they know that significantly higher fares in that segment will decimate that service with the majority of travelers defecting to airlines. And significant float lower, will unnecessarily leave money on the table. OTOH, they do float the fares in the mid range of service where they have flexibility and low cross-elasticity with other modes. At the lower end again they do not float because well, those are used by people who have little disposable income and they will simply not travel with higher buckets, and that would defeat one of the raison d'etres of the Railways as the purveyor of travel service to the whole nation, not just the rich. Of course, in sheer number of travelers the low segment has about 75% of the total customer base of IR, and for suburban and national defense related services they are additionally subsidized by the feds or the states.
I suspect Amtrak's existence is not as intimately tied to the economic well being of the nation at least in the perception of many, including apparently the current management of Amtrak as evidenced by specific statements made by Larry Chestler. Given the artificially created low supply of inventory these days one wonders whether that is part of a strategy, but who knows? Obfuscation about everything is what floats Amtrak's boat quite often.
For a large example of selective floating fares, Indian Railways does floating fares, but selectively. One thing they do not float is the fare for the highest class, and that is because they know that significantly higher fares in that segment will decimate that service with the majority of travelers defecting to airlines. And significant float lower, will unnecessarily leave money on the table. OTOH, they do float the fares in the mid range of service where they have flexibility and low cross-elasticity with other modes. At the lower end again they do not float because well, those are used by people who have little disposable income and they will simply not travel with higher buckets, and that would defeat one of the raison d'etres of the Railways as the purveyor of travel service to the whole nation, not just the rich. Of course, in sheer number of travelers the low segment has about 75% of the total customer base of IR, and for suburban and national defense related services they are additionally subsidized by the feds or the states.
I suspect Amtrak's existence is not as intimately tied to the economic well being of the nation at least in the perception of many, including apparently the current management of Amtrak as evidenced by specific statements made by Larry Chestler. Given the artificially created low supply of inventory these days one wonders whether that is part of a strategy, but who knows? Obfuscation about everything is what floats Amtrak's boat quite often.
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VIA's fares pretty much are not yield managed. Their fare structure is quite simple. There are 3 travel seasons, peak, shoulder and off-peak, and two fare classes, "full" (it doesn't really have a label) and discount. Off peak is about 30% less than peak and discount is about 10-15% less the "full". The amount of inventory offered in discount is capped, but until it is sold out you have the choice of booking either fare, since the differentiator is discount has more restrictions on cancellations/refunds. All Amtrak sleeper fares carry the same terms and conditions, low bucket or high.
The other fare is the deeply discounted Sleeper Plus Class Deals page, which is essentially a distressed inventory sale. Those are offers between specific points on specific days for specific accommodations and are released roughly only 6-8 weeks in advance of departure. Berths show up a lot, roomettes relatively rarely, and bedrooms kind of in between. End to end shows up, but the deals are offered more often to intermediate points. Saskatoon, anyone? Those are a 40% or more discount and a great deal if you have the flexibility to take advantage of them, but you can't make long range plans for trips with other moving parts with them.
The only "yield management" I see is the cap on discount fares and the decision of what, if any, accommodations to fire sale on the Deals page.
In another post recently about VIA versus Amtrak fares, I made a very rough equivalence between Amtrak and VIA based on which Amtrak buckets would be relatively easy to get in a given travel season. I equated VIA's peak with Amtrak’s high bucket, VIA's off season with Amtrak’s middle bucket, and VIA's "Deals" page offers with low bucket. It is pretty subjective and subject to challenge, but I feel it is at least a stab at a methodology to compare fare structures that are apples and oranges.
VIA is just about to switch on a new reservations system. This is my own personal speculation, the current fare structure may be an artifact of limitations in ReserVIA and the new system may allow more yield management. As I said, it is speculation, but I would not be surprised to see VIA move more towards yield management once it is implemented.
ReserVIA is actually newer than ARROW, btw.
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What is VIA, some new Amtrak fares?
VIA Rail Canada, Canada's equivalent of Amtrak and the operator of the lovely Canadian, the last streamliner.
Oh, ok. Thank you. Still learning Amtrak terminology. lol. I will stick with Amtrak for now.
I think I waited too long. That $2118 fare shot up to $2233 which I see is the high bucket for my trip. When I put more than 2 adults in 2 or more BRs there are only roomettes left. And last week I could input 8 adults in 4 or more bedrooms. Any chance things may change, or should I start looking at other trains? The train only shows 10% full, if that means anything.
The 10% doesn’t mean anything for sleepers. That number is on the coach capacity. The critical number for you is only 2 bedrooms left at this time.
There may have run on the bedrooms, consuming whatever inventory that was allocated to the second lowest bucket. You also cannot rule out the possibility that Amtrak decided to remove a sleeper reducing bedroom capacity from 10 to 5. If 2 had already been sold, it would only take one more sale to reduce the open inventory to 2.
In either case, the chances of a bucket drop are pretty slim. Either a significant number of people cancel, enough to open the inventory in that second lowest bucket back up if both sleepers are still on the train, or Amtrak puts a sleeper back on if they pulled it. With only 2 bedrooms left, Amtrak isn't going to reallocate either of them into a lower bucket unless they remain unsold until shortly before departure (like under a week or two).
In short, unfortunately you probably missed the boat on that second highest bucket for your date(s).
$2233 is far from the highest bucket possible for your trip.
• If you entered SEA and DET into Amtrak one-way fare search, it would route you Seattle to Sacramento to Chicago to Detroit. The high bucket Bedroom fare for that routing could be as much as $1220 + $3183 + ($40, $96 or $125 for the CHI to DET leg) = $4443 to $4528
• If, instead, you booked a multi-city fare (and stayed overnight in Chicago) your routing would be SEA to CHI to DET and the high bucket Bedroom fare could be $3375 (for SEA to CHI) + ($40, $96 or $125 for the CHI to DET leg) = $3415 to $3500.
Bear in mind that all these are the possible high bucket fare for your trip if (and only if) those high bucket fares happen to be the ones offered for your specific travel dates. There's also a chance they would not be offered on those selected dates but the only way to find out is to make dummy fare searches every day between now and 17 November.
Could the fare drop from $2233? As zephyr17 just said - slim chance.
Could the remain at $2233? IMHO, probably not.
Could the fare rise from $2233? Most probably.
I do not understand all those cities you are adding. My trip is one way from CHI to LAX in a BR on the SWC. And the highest price I see is $2233 for one adult. Am I reading the bucket listings wrong?
No, you're reading the bucket listings correctly.
I just got Peter Sexton's itinerary from Post $134 confused with yours! <blush, chagrin>
Only 1 bedroom left on that train. Grab it tonight if you still want it.
Not at that price. For 2 seniors in a BR they want $2418, I think it is. I will find a different train. If I have to, I will do CHI - SAS or ELP, then fly the rest of the way to LAX.
The train to SAS is not as enjoyable. They have frozen meals, no dining car, and no Sightseer Lounge.
If you can fly down to Houston on 10/4, you can get Train #1 to LAX for for $1,850. You could also fly to SAS and get it for $1,638, but you'd have to board at 2:45 am on 10/5. The booking engine also shows Train #421 (which is physically the same train) from SAS at $1,254, but the Schedule page shows it being canceled, so that might be risky.
If you're wondering, #421 is a sleeping car and coach from the Texas Eagle which are attached to #1 at SAS. Booking it from CHI shows it canceled, but it's bookable from SAS. But, as I said, the Schedule page shows it canceled out of SAS, as well. I would be nervous about trying to book it out of SAS.
Train #1 is the Sunset Limited, and the last I heard, it has full traditional dining, a diner, and a Sightseer Lounge.
UK visitor here... (I'm sorry if this observation has been made before, I haven't read every post).
Is the price-structure for the long-distance named trains/routes skewed by the cruise market? People who are accustomed to up-market cruises can afford to pay more for a super-deluxe service, this means that 'normal' (I can't think of a better word) passengers who want to make the trip in reasonable comfort but without fawning attendants and fancy meals have no realistic alternative. I get the economics and practicalities - the railways need to maximise their revenues and trains can only get so big.
Is the price-structure for the long-distance named trains/routes skewed by the cruise market? People who are accustomed to up-market cruises can afford to pay more for a super-deluxe service, this means that 'normal' (I can't think of a better word) passengers who want to make the trip in reasonable comfort but without fawning attendants and fancy meals have no realistic alternative. I get the economics and practicalities - the railways need to maximise their revenues and trains can only get so big.
Been following this thread with interest. The newer Amtrak yield management system does have a plus side for those of us who can't really book trips 11 months in advance (in my case, 3 months can be a stretch). I was able to book a recent trip on the Capitol Limited on short notice - a week before departure. And the train was showing roomette availability end-to-end on both directions in the lowest bucket. I didn't see the "Only X rooms left" message and I never try the 8 bookings thing, only searched for one. Guessing that these were light travel days so the system kept the prices low. Coach was full, 70% at booking and 90% by departure time, and by then, the rooms were also full. Wondering if the remaining inventory was filled with successful "bid-ups" from coach passengers. I didn't check daily after booking; it's possible the rooms were reserved before the bids would have been processed.
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