Gateway Project/New York Penn Station capacity improvement

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The freight tunnel would not even go under Manhattan, but go via Staten Island. It would use the former B&O/SIRT bridge from New Jersey, some SIR trackage or ROW, and then a tunnel beneath the Narrows, connecting to the freight line at Bay Ridge, Brooklyn.

Currently, the New York/New Jersey RR operates a carfloat from Greenville Yard, NJ, to Brooklyn to connect with New York and Atlantic Railway...
 
The same people who complain about the trucks clogging their roads do everything they can to block additional avenues for rail freight. Apparently, they believe goods and materials arrive and depart via magic carpets. 8 million or so people in Brooklyn, Queens, Nassau, Suffolk, and Staten Island would likely receive a major long term benefit from better rail access, but the pain of overcoming Nimby-ism and the initial costs to do anything along these lines are considerable.
 
The freight tunnel would not even go under Manhattan, but go via Staten Island. It would use the former B&O/SIRT bridge from New Jersey, some SIR trackage or ROW, and then a tunnel beneath the Narrows, connecting to the freight line at Bay Ridge, Brooklyn.

Currently, the New York/New Jersey RR operates a carfloat from Greenville Yard, NJ, to Brooklyn to connect with New York and Atlantic Railway...
That is the tunnel proposal that has been shelved and is being criticized by the Brooklyn know nothing council person for cost. Instead he is proposing the impractical idea of running freight through a pair of tunnels with 2.8% gradient that terminates in Penn Station New York for the foreseeable future.
 
Some additional articles.

http://www.njtvonline.org/news/video/gateway-tunnel-construction-set-begin-2019/

http://www.railwayage.com/index.php/passenger/intercity/gateway-paradise-by-the-permitting-dashboard-lights.html

Reading through the articles, there wasn't much that hasn't already been discussed. The biggest takeaway from the announcement seems to be that funding will be included in the FTA's FY18 budget for the start of the Portal Bridge North project in FY18 (with construction staring later that year) and funding for the Hudson River Tunnels will be included in the FTA's FY19 budget.

I assume this funding will account for the Feds share of the Hudson River Tunnels (with NJ-NY still needing to cough up their half). I did not see anything to suggest what percentage of the Portal Bridge cost will be covered by the Feds.
 
From the Hudson Tunnel Project website...

Two open house meetings are now posted on the events page for November 10 and November 17, there is a flyer available here. The meetings will be on the Preferred Alternative for the project.

They also posted 4 other documents.

A fact sheet #2, Scoping Summary

The Scoping Summary Report

A fact sheet #3, preferred alternative

The Preferred Alternative Summary

I am still reading through the Summary Report (75 pages), but quickly a few highlights...

Grades not exceeding 2.1%

Three Ventilation Plants

The use of TBMs for most of the work

Uses the ARC alignment for the portion in NJ

Will use engineering work and property acquired for ARC

4 concepts where considered
 
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The Hudson Tunnel Project website has posted the meeting boards from the open houses scheduled last week and this week.

A couple of notes. During the initial review various other alternatives from previous studies (including one that apparently considered a bridge) where reviewed and eliminated. They considered incorporating other project elements (presumably other Gateway elements) into the tunnel project but did not. Four alternative alignments for the tunnel where considered (probably more in depth than the first step), all of them use the tunnel alignment preserved under Hudson Yards in NY and the NJ tunnel mouth and construction staging areas that the ARC project had planned on using. Based on my reading they are using the ARC tunnel alignment from the NJ entrance to the location of the NJ vent plant.
 
The Hudson Tunnel Project website has posted the meeting boards from the open houses scheduled last week and this week.

A couple of notes. During the initial review various other alternatives from previous studies (including one that apparently considered a bridge) where reviewed and eliminated. They considered incorporating other project elements (presumably other Gateway elements) into the tunnel project but did not. Four alternative alignments for the tunnel where considered (probably more in depth than the first step), all of them use the tunnel alignment preserved under Hudson Yards in NY and the NJ tunnel mouth and construction staging areas that the ARC project had planned on using. Based on my reading they are using the ARC tunnel alignment from the NJ entrance to the location of the NJ vent plant.
Yup. It is more or less the same alignment with slight variations. The ARC alignment was slightly different because it incorporated a bellmouth to connect to the northern branch at some point in the future. AFAIK that part has been dropped, which allows for a slightly less complicated alignment under the Palisades. The tunnel portal and the vent shafts will be at the same locations as planned for the ARC tunnel in NJ.
 
Yup. It is more or less the same alignment with slight variations. The ARC alignment was slightly different because it incorporated a bellmouth to connect to the northern branch at some point in the future. AFAIK that part has been dropped, which allows for a slightly less complicated alignment under the Palisades. The tunnel portal and the vent shafts will be at the same locations as planned for the ARC tunnel in NJ.
I don't recall how they planned on connecting the northern branch for the ARC project. Out of curiosity, do you have any links that showed how they where planning on that connection?
 
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I have it in a pile of papers somewhere. They had built in two bell mouths under the Palisades in the design, one in each tunnel, which were going to be at different levels at that point. The plan was to keep the possibility open for boring additional tunnels under the Palisades at some point in the future, to connect from the bell mouths to a point somewhere between where CSX and SusiQ passes under Rt. 3 and Union Turnpike/Patterson Plank Road. This would potentially have allowed connection into Penn Station from both SusiQ towards Sparta and CSX towards the north, both Tenafly and possible future service to Haverstraw or Newburgh on the River Line. It was a bit of a Moonshot IMHO.

back then I participated in each and every RCLC meeting and have mountains of papers in a moving box among a pile of them in my Garage. They were not very good at putting things online back then.
 
I am trying to figure out if President-Elect Trump would want huge cuts to FTA/ New Starts--or, as many people I have recently spoken to believe, that he is a New Yorker and understands that mass transit funding--and the Gateway Program--are very important to New York City. What do you folks think?
 
Not that any of his random collection of campaign statements mean much, but he did say he planned to spent half a trillion dollars on infrastructure over some unspecified period of time. :)
So maybe that is Trump's way of saying that we shouldn't worry too much about massive cuts to federal mass transit funding?

(I also brought up Gateway since the Portal Bridge and the Hudson Tunnel Project have been into the New Starts funding pipeline). https://www.transit.dot.gov/funding/grant-programs/capital-investments/current-cig-projects
 
Not that any of his random collection of campaign statements mean much, but he did say he planned to spent half a trillion dollars on infrastructure over some unspecified period of time. :)
I believe that he proposed a whole trillion dollars, and his opponent proposed a half trillion. Neither of them (that I recall) however gave much in details such as time frames or how money would be split among whatever they consider to be under the umbrella of infrastructure.

I am trying to figure out if President-Elect Trump would want huge cuts to FTA/ New Starts--or, as many people I have recently spoken to believe, that he is a New Yorker and understands that mass transit funding--and the Gateway Program--are very important to New York City. What do you folks think?
Its my understanding that the FY2017 New Starts are already set (funding and projects), and possibly the FY2018 (at least the funding). I think the first Portal Bridge (that the states have agreed to cover a portion already) is suppose to be included under the FY2018 budget. There is some pre-construction work that is already funded under a TIGER Grant that starts soon.

The Hudson Tunnels should at least be funded through the accelerated EIS work. It sounded like the heavy funding would begin with FY2019 (not sure if they where planning to fund it under New Starts or another program).

However, a President can propose all he wants, but if Congress does not include it in their budget that they adopt, it doe not matter what the President thinks.
True. There are multiple players that will determine what may or may not happen. In my opinion, I suspect the resiliency projects under Gateway will most likely move forward and be completed. The expansion projects slightly less likely, with Penn Station South and the Secaucus Loop being the least likely to be completed (but still possible).
 
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Can we expect if congress does not follow the president elect then the veto pen might be used a lot ? IMHO it has not been used enough by past presidents. That of course disregards the affordable health care act cancellation that has been vetoed many times.
 
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You cannot veto an omnibus bill for the lack of funding of some minor thing in it, even if you are Trump. The battles are going to be on big things. Gateway is not a big thing in the overall scheme of things. Most interesting to watch will be whether Ryan gets turfed by Trump or not, and that will determine a lot of very large items like Social Security, Medicare, Infrastructure and Defense.
 
You cannot veto an omnibus bill for the lack of funding of some minor thing in it, even if you are Trump. The battles are going to be on big things. Gateway is not a big thing in the overall scheme of things. Most interesting to watch will be whether Ryan gets turfed by Trump or not, and that will determine a lot of very large items like Social Security, Medicare, Infrastructure and Defense.
True, at the federal level it is an all or nothing when it comes to vetos. I also think that Gateway is not a large fish in what is going to be a large pond. Without getting much further from the topic of the thread, I fully expect that Ryan is not going anywhere.
 
Not that any of his random collection of campaign statements mean much, but he did say he planned to spent half a trillion dollars on infrastructure over some unspecified period of time. :)
I believe that he proposed a whole trillion dollars, and his opponent proposed a half trillion. Neither of them (that I recall) however gave much in details such as time frames or how money would be split among whatever they consider to be under the umbrella of infrastructure.

I am trying to figure out if President-Elect Trump would want huge cuts to FTA/ New Starts--or, as many people I have recently spoken to believe, that he is a New Yorker and understands that mass transit funding--and the Gateway Program--are very important to New York City. What do you folks think?
Its my understanding that the FY2017 New Starts are already set (funding and projects), and possibly the FY2018 (at least the funding). I think the first Portal Bridge (that the states have agreed to cover a portion already) is suppose to be included under the FY2018 budget. There is some pre-construction work that is already funded under a TIGER Grant that starts soon.

The Hudson Tunnels should at least be funded through the accelerated EIS work. It sounded like the heavy funding would begin with FY2019 (not sure if they where planning to fund it under New Starts or another program).

However, a President can propose all he wants, but if Congress does not include it in their budget that they adopt, it doe not matter what the President thinks.
True. There are multiple players that will determine what may or may not happen. In my opinion, I suspect the resiliency projects under Gateway will most likely move forward and be completed. The expansion projects slightly less likely, with Penn Station South and the Secaucus Loop being the least likely to be completed (but still possible).
According to the October Port Authority of NY and NJ Board Meeting Press Conference, both the Portal Bridge and Hudson Tunnel Project have been accepted into the Federal FY 2018 budget.

http://corpinfo.panynj.gov/pages/board-committee-meeting-videos/
 
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