Gateway Project/New York Penn Station capacity improvement

[leacrane]

Trump is talking about a trillion in infrastructure. For better or worse he's not a typical GOP on fiscal policy. e.g. he doesn't care about deficits. since he pitched the blue collar types I don't see him canceling projects. The question is, will Congress go against him? not a single Senator from the NE corridor is Repub.

 

[Palmetto]

One quote from Trump that I saw concerning infrastructure investment omitted railroads. He included about everything else, from hospitals to highways.

 

[Andrew]

One quote from Trump that I saw concerning infrastructure investment omitted railroads. He included about everything else, from hospitals to highways.

A quote that was just published had Trump saying that he wants to include subways in his infrastructure plan.

 

[brianpmcdonnell17]

One quote from Trump that I saw concerning infrastructure investment omitted railroads. He included about everything else, from hospitals to highways.

A quote that was just published had Trump saying that he wants to include subways in his infrastructure plan.

That is interesting considering the trend has been towards light rail and away from subways. I wonder if he wants new subway systems or to expand current ones. To my knowledge, CTA, MTA, and MARTA all have expansion plans. However, I do not believe there has been a brand new US subway system built in at least 20 years.

 

[jis]

That is interesting considering the trend has been towards light rail and away from subways. I wonder if he wants new subway systems or to expand current ones. To my knowledge, CTA, MTA, and MARTA all have expansion plans. However, I do not believe there has been a brand new US subway system built in at least 20 years.

Right. But one has been inaugurated in the last 25 years though And it has since been expanded.

 

[MARC Rider]

One quote from Trump that I saw concerning infrastructure investment omitted railroads. He included about everything else, from hospitals to highways.

A quote that was just published had Trump saying that he wants to include subways in his infrastructure plan.

That is interesting considering the trend has been towards light rail and away from subways. I wonder if he wants new subway systems or to expand current ones. To my knowledge, CTA, MTA, and MARTA all have expansion plans. However, I do not believe there has been a brand new US subway system built in at least 20 years.

You know, for people who aren't rail or transit geeks, the term "subway" might refer to any sort of rail transit system. And our President-elect is from New York, where the most common form of rail transit is the subway.

 

[PRR 60]

...not a single Senator from the NE corridor is Repub.

Pat Toomey ( R) - Pennsylvania

 

[PVD]

The subway may be number one, but the 3 largest commuter railroads (by passenger volume) are in the NY Metro area also, and combined handle almost a million riders on a weekday. 2 out of three go to NYP, and politicos are straining to make it 3 out of three

 

[brianpmcdonnell17]

The subway may be number one, but the 3 largest commuter railroads (by passenger volume) are in the NY Metro area also, and combined handle almost a million riders on a weekday. 2 out of three go to NYP, and politicos are straining to make it 3 out of three

The three NYC commuter railroads have slightly higher ridership than the DC Metro, the second busiest US rapid transit system. Some places even run with subway-like frequency, such as much of the City Terminal Zone on the LIRR and the final few miles into Grand Central on Metro-North.

 

[PVD]

We always think of the very large numbers that the rail rapid transit systems carry, and sometimes overlook the large volumes handled by commuter rail. Your point about the LIRR city zone is very true, service from Jamaica to NYP is such that I sometimes pay the extra few bucks to take the LIRR to NYP for an Amtrak trip, it is way easier than dragging bags on the subway.

 

[MARC Rider]

We always think of the very large numbers that the rail rapid transit systems carry, and sometimes overlook the large volumes handled by commuter rail. Your point about the LIRR city zone is very true, service from Jamaica to NYP is such that I sometimes pay the extra few bucks to take the LIRR to NYP for an Amtrak trip, it is way easier than dragging bags on the subway.

But, as I said previously, to people who aren't transit geeks/railfans/whatever, commuter rail like the LIRR is just another form of "subway."

 

[PVD]

I'm not convinced that the ridership of those services (which in some areas is extensive) see it that way. Those that don't use the systems might be so inclined.

 

[jis]

I'm not convinced that the ridership of those services (which in some areas is extensive) see it that way. Those that don't use the systems might be so inclined.

Yeah. Given the fares it is hard to imagine them as subways.

I am sure when Trump says Subways, given his background, he is probably thinking completing things like the Second Avenue Subway. I am also sure if someone asked him about things like fixing the Hudson Tunnels and bringing LIRR to Grand Central and MNRR to Penn Station, he will gladly include them in his abstract infrastructure plan too. Of course what all that might mean at the end of the day is a bit open ended right now.

 

[brianpmcdonnell17]

I'm not convinced that the ridership of those services (which in some areas is extensive) see it that way. Those that don't use the systems might be so inclined.

Yeah. Given the fares it is hard to imagine them as subways.
I am sure when Trump says Subways, given his background, he is probably thinking completing things like the Second Avenue Subway. I am also sure if someone asked him about things like fixing the Hudson Tunnels and bringing LIRR to Penn Station, he will gladly include them in his abstract infrastructure plan too. Of course what all that might mean at the end of the day is a bit open ended right now.

LIRR already goes to Penn Station. Comstruction is underway for the tunnel to Grand Central that will divert some LIRR trains there. Once that is complete, there will be enough space in Penn Station so that Metro-North could go there (this project is still in the planning stages).

 

[jis]

LIRR already goes to Penn Station. Comstruction is underway for the tunnel to Grand Central that will divert some LIRR trains there. Once that is complete, there will be enough space in Penn Station so that Metro-North could go there (this project is still in the planning stages).

Of course. but what does it have to do with anything that I said regarding Trump and his plan?
We are all quite aware of what the current plans are in the New York area which has been discussed extensively and at times heatedly in this forum.

Or did you somehow imagine that I was ignorant of the plans?

 

[brianpmcdonnell17]

LIRR already goes to Penn Station. Comstruction is underway for the tunnel to Grand Central that will divert some LIRR trains there. Once that is complete, there will be enough space in Penn Station so that Metro-North could go there (this project is still in the planning stages).

Of course. but what does it have to do with anything that I said regarding Trump and his plan?
We are all quite aware of what the current plans are in the New York area which has been discussed extensively and at times heatedly in this forum.

Or did you somehow imagine that I was ignorant of the plans?

I just wanted to clarify for anybody who was not aware of the plans. Your original post mentioned bringing LIRR to Penn Station in the future and I thought that could confuse someone.

 

[jis]

OH, I see. Slip of the finger has been fixed in the original.

 

[Metra Electric Rider]

That is interesting considering the trend has been towards light rail and away from subways. I wonder if he wants new subway systems or to expand current ones. To my knowledge, CTA, MTA, and MARTA all have expansion plans. However, I do not believe there has been a brand new US subway system built in at least 20 years.

Right. But one has been inaugurated in the last 25 years though And it has since been expanded.

San Juan?

One wonders, I wonder, if the subway plans are the westward extension to a certain developer-elects projects...?

 

[jis]

Los Angeles Red Line and Purple Line.

 

[jis]

Redact

 

[CraigDK]

http://www.reuters.com/article/new-york-gatewayproject-idUSL1N1DI23N

Just to bring this back to Gateway....

 

[Andrew]

Numerous updates on Gateway Program Development Corportation, regarding expedited environmental review and up to a $6 Billion RRIF Loan...

Watch the link from around 4 minutes...

http://corpinfo.panynj.gov/pages/board-committee-meeting-videos/

 

[CraigDK]

The link in the video is only 3:44 long... To get to the video click on the Board Meeting 11/17/16 link on the right. Watching it now...

 

[CraigDK]

Lots of non related Port Authority stuff in the video, but if I am processing what they have said so far in both the video and past news releases...

Gateway Project Development Corp (an entity of the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey) will be responsible for the overall management of the finance and construction aspects of the project. This development corp is the entity that will make the application for a RRIF loan in the amount of ~$6B to cover part of the cost for phase 1. Phase 1 includes both the Portal Bridge replacement project (the first of the two Portal bridges) and the Hudson River Tunnel Project (the new tunnel [two tubes] and the rehab & modernization of the existing tunnel [two tubes]). Phase 2 is, by my best guess, ever other part of Gateway. I suppose this might get broken up further at some later time.

The two phase 1 projects where estimated to cost about $10B and $1.3B. I am assuming the RRIF loan that was discussed above is to cover NY & NJ share of both projects. The previously mentioned (in this thread) approved Port Authority authorization will cover the interest on this loan (hence why I think the RRIF loan is the states portion of the cost). That leaves about $5.3B or so in funding that still needs to be identified, presumably from the Feds and Amtrak.

 

[Andrew]

Lots of non related Port Authority stuff in the video, but if I am processing what they have said so far in both the video and past news releases...

Gateway Project Development Corp (an entity of the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey) will be responsible for the overall management of the finance and construction aspects of the project. This development corp is the entity that will make the application for a RRIF loan in the amount of ~$6B to cover part of the cost for phase 1. Phase 1 includes both the Portal Bridge replacement project (the first of the two Portal bridges) and the Hudson River Tunnel Project (the new tunnel [two tubes] and the rehab & modernization of the existing tunnel [two tubes]). Phase 2 is, by my best guess, ever other part of Gateway. I suppose this might get broken up further at some later time.

The two phase 1 projects where estimated to cost about $10B and $1.3B. I am assuming the RRIF loan that was discussed above is to cover NY & NJ share of both projects. The previously mentioned (in this thread) approved Port Authority authorization will cover the interest on this loan (hence why I think the RRIF loan is the states portion of the cost). That leaves about $5.3B or so in funding that still needs to be identified, presumably from the Feds and Amtrak.

The $6 Billion RRIF Loan is likely the debt service for the Port Authority of NY and NJ, NJ Transit, New Jersey, and New York.

This includes both the Portal Bridge (which the Port Authority said in October should cost a little more than $1.5 Billion) and the Hudson Tunnel Project.

Remember, Gateway Phase 1 is likely to receive a massive New Starts Grant--which will likely include some CMAQ funds as well (which was what originally happened with ARC).