Greyhound lists Chicago hub terminal for sale

[NorthShore]

https://chicagoyimby.com/2023/04/sale-announced-for-downtown-greyhound-station.html

 

[NorthShore]

I was just there the other day and got to thinking about how, when they built this facility and moved there from the Loop, it was in a fringe area of downtown, near what used to be skid row. It, still, was sensibe for its easy access to the interstate system as well as public transit with cheap property. Now, that's expensive property in a, well still somewhat fringy but much more redeveloped and upscale, area. From that sense, it seemed almost underutilized. And it isn't like the city has ever seriously considered reinvesting in a redeveloped Clinton L stop as a transportation superstation, with its proximity to both Greyhound and Metra/Amtrak.

So, where does Greyhound go from here in Chicago? With so many daily trips in/out of the central hub, it wouldn't be terribly practical to go solely curbside. But where is there any sort of centrally located property that they might reasonably purchase and redevelop at an affordable price? Could part of the deal here be to include a bus terminal in any redevelopment plan? What part might outlying stops at L terminals play in offering service or interchange?

 

[NorthShore]

I wonder whether Greyhound/Flixbus is expecting the piggyback upon their relationship with Amtrak to use Union Station as their passenger waiting area, with loading/alighting either on street or at the CTA bus terminal across the street.

 

[user 5784]

I wonder whether Greyhound/Flixbus is expecting the piggyback upon their relationship with Amtrak to use Union Station as their passenger waiting area, with loading/alighting either on street or at the CTA bus terminal across the street.

dont think union station can handle more passengers hanging around inside.

 

[Bob Dylan]

I wonder whether Greyhound/Flixbus is expecting the piggyback upon their relationship with Amtrak to use Union Station as their passenger waiting area, with loading/alighting either on street or at the CTA bus terminal across the street.

Works for Mega Bus!!!

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

Works for Mega Bus!!!

Did it? Mega Bus is still around, but has a much smaller operation. Chicago seem to be a much small part of Mega Bus.

 

[NorthShore]

Did it? Mega Bus is still around, but has a much smaller operation. Chicago seem to be a much small part of Mega Bus.

It didn't, actually. And are they even in Chicago at all, anymore?

Amtrak threw Megabus passengers out of Union Station, as they weren't paying rent for passengers to wait and it was seen as competition. The difference, here, is that Greyhound has a relationship with Amtrak and a reservation counter in Union Station.

Megabus moved their operation down Canal and across the street from Union Station, for awhile. It was a mess. It looked like Calcutta with passengers sitting on sidewalks waiting on buses. There was a certain effectiveness to it, but this was never an appropriate place for curbside bus service. At one time, city planners thought that Megabus would join the bus transportation center across the street from Union Station. But that never occurred. Instead, they got shuffled off by the city to an odd and awkward lonely location further south a few blocks which was even more inconvenient and around nothing with shelter or of worth. I always thought that a more reasonable compromise would have been to shift street side loading to Canal aside Ogilvie, where passengers could wait inside the food court or other sheltered areas, perhaps purchasing something. Part of the "deal" would have been to getting Coach USA to rent and staff a kiosk inside the building, funded by a small "Chicago hub service charge", of say 2 bucks for every ticket arriving or departing Chicago.

Still, at the height of Mega's popularity, Greyhound (which didn't like the competition) sent a representative out to Canal every day to count Megabus passengers, attempting to sort out business lost and what could be done in response. This was both good and bad. It definitely decreased fares and bettered service from Greyhound, which could no longer hold passengers hostage at high prices as the only game in town. But it also led to increased express services that elimated stops and routes....and agents, along with their small businesses and the bus shipping services which kept them afloat. Once busy locations lost service entirely. We no longer have that competition here. And Greyhound gets to go back to being bad for no good reason.

Ultimately, if the dog intends to continue even the limited level of service that they have at the Chicago hub now, that can't really be effectively accomplished without some sort of sheltered waiting area and loading zone.

 

[railiner]

Several years ago, a Greyhound CEO in an interview stated: “…the bus is the bargain basement of public transportation…”

This still holds mostly true. While government builds airports and train stations, the lower economic and political clout of intercity bus travelers mean their needs are mostly ignored.

Exceptions are places like Boston’s South Station Bus Terminal, where all intercity carriers are required to use, therefore cut rate operators desiring to use curbside loading cannot have an economic advantage.

Since airline passengers pay taxes on their tickets to help defray airport costs, perhaps the government should bring back tax on bus travel, but provide intermodal terminals in more places…

 

[NorthShore]

Several years ago, a Greyhound CEO in an interview stated: “…the bus is the bargain basement of public transportation…”

This still holds mostly true. While government builds airports and train stations, the lower economic and political clout of intercity bus travelers mean their needs are mostly ignored.

Exceptions are places like Boston’s South Station Bus Terminal, where all intercity carriers are required to use, therefore cut rate operators desiring to use curbside loading cannot have an economic advantage.

Since airline passengers pay taxes on their tickets to help defray airport costs, perhaps the government should bring back tax on bus travel, but provide intermodal terminals in more places…

I found it interesting that something similar happenned with the intermodal centers in cities like Milwaukee and St. Paul. Initially serving Amtrak and Greyhound (with Mega stopping across the street), eventually they incorporated all bus operators, somehow, (either by negotiations, statute or fees.) This cleaned things up a lot. Why this didn't occur at the new bus center in Chicago, despite that being the expectation of city planners, befuddles. Perhaps financial repercussions. But, possibly, it was just too big of an operation for the site.

 

[Trogdor]

I found it interesting that something similar happenned with the intermodal centers in cities like Milwaukee and St. Paul. Initially serving Amtrak and Greyhound (with Mega stopping across the street), eventually they incorporated all bus operators, somehow, (either by negotiations, statute or fees.) This cleaned things up a lot. Why this didn't occur at the new bus center in Chicago, despite that being the expectation of city planners, befuddles. Perhaps financial repercussions. But, possibly, it was just too big of an operation for the site.

The Union Station Transit Center isn’t even big enough for CTA, with a couple of peak hour routes (IIRC, 1 and 121) still stopping out on the street instead of in the terminal.

 

[MisterUptempo]

The Union Station Transit Center isn’t even big enough for CTA, with a couple of peak hour routes (IIRC, 1 and 121) still stopping out on the street instead of in the terminal.

True. Looking back on the Union Station Master Plan, the transit center was supposed to have four lanes, not three, with separate vertical access to each boarding island. Some very early renderings even showed an electrified light rail or streetcars in the fourth lane (maybe the original intent of Loop Link?)

The footprint of the new tower at street level was supposed to occupy the southern end of the lot (containing the elevator core), with the tower being built over the transit center. Instead, the developers decided against the concept of a shorter tower with massive floor plates to a much taller tower with smaller floor plates that would front along Canal, which likely explains why the fourth bus lane was lost.



Also, the little park was never part of the plan. But, I assume, the developer realized any future tenant would have demanded on-site parking, plus some parking for Amtrak passengers driving to Union Station. Perhaps, when and if the day comes that parking isn't so important, perhaps the lot under the park could be converted to new stub-end tracks for trains coming in from the south. Then, either extend the walkway that services the transit center or build a walkway under Jackson that comes up into the main hall.

I'm still scratching my head on the Greyhound terminals situation.

First Group first announced Greyhound was up for sale in 2019. In late 2020, First Group sold stations in LA, Denver, and Ottawa. In mid-2021, they sold the Columbus, Cincinnati, and Louisville stations. Greyhound was then sold to FlixBus in October, 2021.

At the time of sale, Tech Crunch reported this-

Greyhound properties with an estimated net market value of c.$176 million will be retained by FirstGroup; they will initially be leased back to Greyhound at market rates but are expected to be sold over the next three to five years.

In point of fact, First Group first announced the sale of the remaining stations (including Chicago) in September 2022, a mere 11 months after Flix acquired Greyhound. Sale was finalized to Twenty Lakes Holdings, part of Alden Capital, in December, 2022.

What happened here? Did Flix find the real estate too expensive? Were they counting on the three to five year window to rent the stations until they were able to arrive at a better solution? Did First Group pull the rug out from under Flix, to make a quicker exit from North America? Was Flix going to try the MegaBus method of paying for passenger facilities only when absolutely necessary? Enquiring minds want to know.

The area near the Greyhound station has grown in recent years, with the success of the Old Post Office, the new BMO Tower, and the current rehabilitation of the former Northern Trust building on Canal, as well as multiple high rise residential (mostly along the north side of 290, along Van Buren). But with interest rates inching ever higher and the concerns over the strength of the economy have made the risks of speculative real estate too great for many developers right now.

That might bode well for the fate of the Chicago station, for the time being. Twenty Lakes can easily afford to hold onto the station and collect rent from Greyhound until the property values and demand pick up during the next cycle. Hopefully it buys time to find a new station location.

The question could be asked whether there is any real value by locating Greyhound near Amtrak. Before moving to its current location, Greyhound did just fine for 40 years with its downtown station on Randolph and Clark, close to CTA rapid transit, but nowhere near commuter or intercity rail.

I like the idea of a communal bus station, like Boston's mentioned above, but does Chicago have the wealth of bus service companies Boston currently enjoys? If regional rail routes to destinations like Madison and Peoria were to come to fruition, there would be far less demand for buses, as routes from VanGalder and Peoria Charter would likely evaporate, creating an even smaller pool of Chicago-area operators for a facility like Boston's.

The YIMBY article mentioned the Chicago Greyhound station sees 500,000 passengers a year, 55 buses a day. That averages out to 25 passengers per bus per day boarding in Chicago. I know nothing about how this works, but could Greyhound handle that many passengers in a smaller footprint, while not relegating them to street corner steerage class?

On the subject of MegaBus, I can recall, about 6 or 7 years ago, CDOT/IDOT offered MegaBus the space under the Eisenhower Expressway/I-290 at Clinton, right across the street from the CTA Blue Line station, to use for a passenger facility. At the time, there was an extra lane on Clinton that could have been used as a boarding lane.

MegaBus never moved on that idea, continued boarding passengers on a corner further south on Canal at Polk, and would eventually withdraw from Chicago and other markets. The extra lane on Clinton has since been converted to a two-way bike lane.

 

[Willbridge]

As illustrated by the streetcorner operation in Portland, OR, the problem for Greyhound is in managing misconnects where they have gone to curbside loading. Chicago would have that problem on steroids.

2015 connection in Stanfield, OR snowstorm.

 

[NorthShore]

The City of Chicago is seeking to purchase the Chicago station, to use it as a common bus terminal facility for operarors including but not limited to Flix/Greyhound:

https://chicago.suntimes.com/2023/6...on-chicago-terminal-transportation-department
The apparent alternatives are not appealing.

 

[delayed Zephyred]

The City of Chicago is seeking to purchase the Chicago station, to use it as a common bus terminal facility for operarors including but not limited to Flix/Greyhound:

https://chicago.suntimes.com/2023/6...on-chicago-terminal-transportation-department
The apparent alternatives are not appealing.

Would be nice. They should put in a elevated walkway with moving walkways and a center hall for Chicago owned red caps to augment Amtrak red caps to transfer from train to bus facility as Clinton station is far from ADA compliance with elevators and escalators from turnstiles to street level. Those stairs are not good for this retired folk. Then station chicago PD there 24-7 especially when buses are loading and unloading have seen ruff raff come in on bikes and haul off bags in grand theft bag. Plus 1 more restaurant gift shop could reopen where greyhound food service was. Hope someone gets a plumber and re plumb the toilets there and sinks they were never maintained by Greyhound. Odd that Chicago has the money to buy this.

 

[BlackDiamond]

The City of Chicago is seeking to purchase the Chicago station, to use it as a common bus terminal facility for operarors including but not limited to Flix/Greyhound:

https://chicago.suntimes.com/2023/6...on-chicago-terminal-transportation-department
The apparent alternatives are not appealing.

It's ridiculous that a city the size of Chicago and a key hub in the intercity bus system could lose its station and have passengers loading on the street.