Greyhound seats and fleet questions

[Swadian Hardcore]

Word on the street is that Greyhound Canada plans to retire all G4500's by the end of April 2014. This has been backed up by spottings and photos of scrapped G4500's lined up in Edmonton, Winnipeg, and Vancouver. Greyhound Canada appears to have had enough with these and refused to consider a rebuild.

Retired G4500's:

http://www.barraclou.com/bus/greyhound/greyhound1183_1013_1228.jpg

http://www.barraclou.com/bus/greyhound/greyhound1211.jpg

http://www.barraclou.com/bus/greyhound/greyhound1209_2.jpg

Greyhound Canada has also retired some offshoot DL3's that are not standardized with the rest of the fleet. These include second-hand DL3's and CAT-powered DL3's.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Greyhound adds a stop at Saint Pual Union Depot, on Route 304 Chicago-Minneapolis. See this: http://www.greyhound.com/en/newsroom/viewrelease.aspx?id=559&year=2014.

Please check the Greyhound System Timetable for more information.

 

[railiner]

Greyhound adds a stop at Saint Pual Union Depot, on Route 304 Chicago-Minneapolis. See this: http://www.greyhound.com/en/newsroom/viewrelease.aspx?id=559&year=2014.

Please check the Greyhound System Timetable for more information.

I checked it....don't see it added yet to the 15 January timetable.....

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Greyhound adds a stop at Saint Pual Union Depot, on Route 304 Chicago-Minneapolis. See this: http://www.greyhound.com/en/newsroom/viewrelease.aspx?id=559&year=2014.

Please check the Greyhound System Timetable for more information.

I checked it....don't see it added yet to the 15 January timetable.....

It was added to 304 on March 11, 2014. See: http://extranet.greyhound.com/Revsup/schedules2/pageset.html. Seems like they might have added more schedules too, now 5 daily and more on weekends.

 

[railiner]

Okay...now I see where they had a revision for that table....missed it until you pointed it out....thanks!

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

What does the color code mean? Yellow, turquoise, and red? I think red means discountinued but the other two?

 

[beebopper]

The color code indicates the regional pool that the coach is assigned ! For example pool 355 pool would be a west of Chicago based bus and Pool 047 would be 48 state fourth foot coach! They haven't been placing stickers on the new or returns, but they are all in specific pools for main shop assignments!

Sent from my Prism II using Amtrak Forum mobile app

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

The color code indicates the regional pool that the coach is assigned ! For example pool 355 pool would be a west of Chicago based bus and Pool 047 would be 48 state fourth foot coach! They haven't been placing stickers on the new or returns, but they are all in specific pools for main shop assignments!

Sent from my Prism II using Amtrak Forum mobile app

I think you got the color code of the roster comfused with the color code of the timetable. I mean the colors on the timetable, not the roster. The timetable does not display pool numbers.

 

[rickycourtney]

So while out exploring in West Seattle today I saw a G4500 (in the neoclassical livery) driving under the West Seattle Bridge. It appeared to be driving towards to a large lot with other intercity coaches. When I got home I did some research on Google Street view and I found a "Grey Line of Seattle" yard (4500 W Marginal Way SW, Seattle, WA 98106). It appears that Greyhound is either storing their buses there or contracting with them for bus maintenance. That would explain why I often see Greyhound buses exiting SR 99 out my window.

Also during a trip to Portland last week I spotted a G4500 in the neoclassical livery pulling into the station. Every other bus (about 6) was an old beat up G4500. There was also a BoltBus X3-45 parked along the wall. I assuming it was a layover waiting to return to Seattle that afternoon.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Nice spotting! Did you see any 102DL3's or D4505's in Portland? They are supposed to run the Portland-Denver route, which is too hard for G4500's to handle.

There's still too many old G4500's in the PNW. Three months ago I saw #7095 parked in Sacramento around 4:00 PM, probably waiting for Schedule 8313 to San Francisco which departs at 5:30 PM. Initially I thought it was waiting for 1436 to Portland or 9303 to Los Angeles but they seem too late to have been those runs. Still trying to find out what model runs Sacramento-Portland, maybe I'll have to deal with a G4500 anyway.

 

[rickycourtney]

Nice spotting! Did you see any 102DL3's or D4505's in Portland? They are supposed to run the Portland-Denver route, which is too hard for G4500's to handle.

It was just a quick glance as me and my fiancée walked from Union Station to the Downtown area. The G4500 was the only bus in the neoclassic livery, all the rest (as I said, about 6 buses) appeared to be really, REALLY beat up G4500's in the original white livery. Definitely didn't see a D4505. I don't think there was a 102DL3, if there was it would have been in the white livery (but are there any left in the white livery at this point?)

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Pretty sure none of the active 102DL3's are still in white. Apprently the last batch was rebuilt in late 2013 just before the G4500 rebuilds began. The G4500 rebuilds might be an extension of the 102DL3 rebuilds, since when the last 102DL3's were rebuilt, the first G4500's followed up into the shops.

There are still DL3's sitting around in the charter fleet but they are not for scheduled service due to lack of a wheelchair lift. All of the lift-equipped ones already got rebuilt. Greyhound Canada still has a few white DL3's but most are rebuilt already as well.

Sucks for the PNW and me, then, since if those G4500's are really beat up, they might be those late-model ones that tried to solve the problems but ended up with axles falling off.

Greyhound Canada seems to be really trying to improve their image. Merely two years ago their fleet was filled with terribly beat up buses, paint falling off, angry drivers, losing business. Now they're scrapping the G4500's, and quickly rebuilding the DL3's. They have white D4505's as well.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

I just looked over Greyhound's roster. They took delivery of more X3-45's. Now the numbers are up to 86294. Bravo at the efforts to quell fleet shortages! Finally Greyhound has 1506 units again. They say that there's going to be something special for the 100th Anniversary, "just wait for it". Now let me take pictures instead of detaining bus photographers for questioning.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Made a new Wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York-Denver_route_(Greyhound).

Ricky, you're on Wikipedia too, aren't you? Let's help increase bus knowledge!

 

[rickycourtney]

So here are my fleet notes from Canada:

I rode 0861 & 0868 both were Prevost X3-45 coaches in the BoltBus livery. At the Vancouver station I also saw 0860 (BoltBus X3-45) and 0889 (BoltBus D4505). I also spotted another BoltBus D4505 as we went up I-5 but I didn't catch the unit number.

As far as the Greyhound units go... you'll be happy to hear it was a sea of 102DL3 units. I spotted 1125, 1134, 6064, 6229, 6278 and 6311. Some of the coaches listed were parked behind at the bus bays, but some were parked behind the station and some were in the garage (but not on lifts). Almost all were in the neoclassic livery with one exception... there was a G4500 in the old white livery (forgot to grab the unit number). It was probably one of the better looking G4500 units I've seen... meaning that it only look beat up (not beat to hell ). No clue where these 102DL3 were going to or coming from (but they looked like Greyhound Canada units to me.)





As far as the seats... I went back and re-read your posts and did my homework. The older Premier LS seats look great but they really leave much to be desired in the comfort category. The seat was hard and seemed to be tilted forward and I kept sliding forward in it. It was fine for a 4 hour trip with plenty of opportunities, but it would be torture to sit in this seat on a long-haul Greyhound. Also the power outlets weren't very "grabby"... and my iPhone charger would jiggle its way out every 15-20 minutes. But it wasn't all bad... I like that these seats have a really generous recline and the extra legroom is great. I also liked the center armrests, elastic cupholders and magazine straps (handy for holding customs forms too!). I also appreciate that the seats have seatbelts (I wore mine and found it very comfortable) and supposedly have better compartmentalization than other belted seats.

Here's where the homework comes in... I realized that the old Amtrak California coaches had the Amaya Patroit seats and I agree they are MUCH more comfortable. The new Amtrak California D4505 coaches have Amaya A-2TEN seats. They appear to be a updated version of the Patroit seats but with seatbelts. Personally I always thought these A-2TEN seats were more comfortable than the Patroit seats but that may just be because they were newer.

I'll post my full trip report later (with less of this inside politics of buses).

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Are you sure they (old Amtrak buses) had Amaya Patriots? I think it would be great for Greyhound to order D4505's with Amaya Patriots and seat belt packs. I've never heard of Amaya A-2TEN, here's Amaya's intercity seating site: http://www.amaya-astron.com.mx/ES/productos/asientos_foraneos/patriot_pt/.

I cannot understand Spanish but I think "Asientos Urbanos" means "Urban bus seating", Asientos Suburbanos means "suburban bus seating", and "Asientos Foráneos" means "intercity bus seating."

Now you see why I love the 102DL3. It has those Patriot PT seats resurfaced with leather and increased legroom. It's basically the best of both, despite not having seatbelts, but I see Greyhound could easily install seat belt packs.

Very happy to see all those 102DL3's in Vancouver. Those are definitely all Greyhound Canada units. I think, and I may be wrong, but I think 1125 and 1134 run nationwide in Canada while 6064, 6229, 6278, and 6311 run the southerly highways. The former have been spotted up in Whitehorse but the latter have only been spotted on the major highways. The 6000's were transferred from the US so they are probably internally ill-equipped to run very far north.

Edit: Oh yeah, I heard the Greyhound Canada G4500's were "overhauled" around 2005. Don't know the extent of these overhauls. They are probably in better shape than the American G4500's, but they are getting retired "by April", says a member of GTE. There used to be loads of them spotted in Vancouver, most are now retired and scrapped.

I hear 1134 has Amaya Torino VIP seating, like this: http://www.amaya-astron.com.mx/EN/products/coach_seats/torino_vip/. Same seats as LuxBusAmerica, I believe. Now I also found the A-2TEN on the same site.

I'm also surprised you didn't see any GLC D4505's in Vancouver. Really interested to ride a 102DL3 with Torino VIP.

 

[rickycourtney]

Now that you've shown me more pictures of those Amaya Patriot seats I can say for sure that those are the ones that used to be on the old Amtrak California buses.

Looking at the website you sent me I realized that the new Amtrak California D4505 buses actually have two different models of seats. The 2012 coaches have the Amaya Torino Standard seats while the 2013's have the Amaya A-2TEN. They look very similar... but the A-2TEN has an integrated seatbelt while the seatbelt is optional on the Torino Standard (the seat comfort is about the same, but wearing the A-2TEN seatbelt is more comfortable. Humorously the fabric used on the Amtrak California D4505 coaches is the same as the seats pictured online.

Here are the Torino Standard seats:





And the Amaya A-2TEN:



It also appears that Amaya Patriot doesn't have an optional three point seatbelt. If Greyhound installed them, it would be an aftermarket thing and at that point... it's probably not worth it.

But again, I honestly think that these new Torino Standard and A-2TEN seats are just a bit more comfortable than the older Patriot seats (and a lot more comfortable than the Premier LS seats).

Also another thought from my BoltBus trip... the driver did a great job giving his spiels. He went over travel times, location operation of the bathroom, warned passengers to hold the back of the seats when the coach was in motion, operation of the air vents (he said the A/C was set at 72 but to tell him if it got too hot/cold) and the operation of the WiFi system.

About the only thing he never mentioned was using the seat belts. I'm really surprised that for liability purposes Greyhound doesn't ask drivers to say something to the effect of "while you're seated please fasten your seat belt" in their spiel. As you can see Amtrak California has a big fasten seatbelt sign embroidered into the headrests (no such thing on the older Premier LS seats).

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

I've never seen seat belts mentioned at all when riding Greyhound. Also, I've never seen anyone using them. Perosnally I think Patriot PT is better than the regular Patriot, Torino Standard, or A-2TEN. But that's just because the Patriot PT has a really nice pillow headrest, while the others have narrow block headrests. The Patriot PT is amazing on overnight trips, feels like there's a real pillow there.

Now I've never taken a bus with Torino VIP, AFAIK, so no idea how good those are. Since they are called "VIP", I believe they must be Amaya's top product. Greyhound Canada has a lot of them. They have winged headrests instead of block or pillow headrests, very unfamiliar with them.

Oh yeah, I told my Greyhound photoshooting story on this thread: http://discuss.amtraktrains.com/index.php?/forum/24-non-rail-transportation/. You just HAVE to check it out.

 

[rickycourtney]

Agreed that those old Patroit seats do have comfortable headrests. I slept through many a LA to Bakersfield trip... But I found the headrest on the A-2TEN to be just as comfortable for sleeping. I actually thought that the Torino Standard was the most comfortable because the mount for the shoulder belt was right at head level. That let me rest my head on the shoulder belt as I slept. But I'm not sure if the same layout would be comfortable for others.

But since Greyhound won't be buying anymore Patroit seats due to the lack of 3 point belts... It's my humble opinion that the A-2TEN or the Torino Standard would be a better choice than the Premier LS seats.

But that's just my 2 cents and Greyhound appears to be very committed to using the Premier LS.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Greyhound's not commited to anything right now, they're testing all kinds of bus models. I think they could be convinced to using the Torino VIP, which seems better than the Torino Standard or A-2TEN. Since Greyhound Canada already uses them, why not the US? I'm sure it's not much more expensive than Premier LS, it could even be cheaper since labour in Mexico is generally paid less.

Did I tell you they sent a Prevost here yesterday? Check this out: https://www.flickr.com/photos/95851032@N07/13677698763/in/pool-bus_pictures. #86222 "RENO, NV" sign. Could not shoot from the front, was blocked.

 

[rickycourtney]

I was really impressed by the X3-45. The ride was really smooth and there was very little engine noise.

So changing topics a bit... has anyone posted any interior pictures of the refurbished G4500 coaches yet?

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

No interior pics found yet, but did find this: https://www.flickr.com/photos/mbernero/13659578134/in/pool-go_greyhound

And this: https://www.flickr.com/photos/mbernero/13659230315/in/pool-go_greyhound/

I just uploaded my last batch of pictures before leaving.

Here's my new avatar and my favorite bus: https://www.flickr.com/photos/95851032@N07/13686926033/

Here's the Prevost in Reno: https://www.flickr.com/photos/95851032@N07/13686928173/in/pool-busstationsandlayovers/

Side of a D4505: https://www.flickr.com/photos/95851032@N07/13686930433/in/pool-busstationsandlayovers/

Overview of the fleet: https://www.flickr.com/photos/95851032@N07/13686890305/in/pool-busstationsandlayovers/

Amtrak D4505 with the old rear end alongside a car: https://www.flickr.com/photos/95851032@N07/13677714623/

Check out my photostream for more photos.

 

[rickycourtney]

Well on that note... I hope you have a great trip!

I'm sure you're going to blown away by the scenery in Yosemite. I'm looking forward to hearing how it goes and seeing pictures of the scenery and your transportation there.

I'm interested to hear your thoughts on the California cars & the Comet cars... and hopefully the bus gods will smile upon you and give you a 102DL3 for your trip.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Yes, sir, I am hoping for that 102DL3. Too bad transit in Reno sucks, and I have to depart really early for my Greyhound since it takes so long to get there. Can't park at the terminal long-term. Nice station though, just bad area.

A Prevost would be interesting too but I can ride that on BoltBus when I plan to go to Pacific Northwest. Would be a nice segment on the way to Western Canada. So I just want a 102DL3 now, since it's got the best seats anyway.

Edit:: Oh, you might want to try out a G4500, just a short ride to Ellensburg or Olympia maybe, just to see what they're like. Very few of them actually smell like burning plastic, but they are made with a plastic body so they always have a "plastic" feel. You probably won't like it but then again, it's not too bad for a try. Some people actually like them.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

I'll quickly talk about my Greyhound ride for a bit. The trip report's coming. Good and bad mixed together.

Outbound first. Rode Schedule 8311 from Reno to Sacramento, it was continuing to San Francisco. Bus was 2013 MCI D4505 #86555, based from Los Angeles and equipped with a Cummins ISX12 and 50 American Seating Premier LS-1. Driver was a African-American name Ken who took along his little kid.

Departed 20 minutes late due to misplaced senior passenger, can't remeber that man's name. Driver stood up facing the pax and did his annoucements with the speaker pulled out. Good driver but very uncomfortable seats on this bus. I sat in Seat 9, left 3rd row. Seat sunk down when I sat on it. Couldn't stand up on this type of bus. Full load. Arrived on time to Sacramento. Would prefer a rebuilt 102DL3 or even a G4500 over this thing.

Way back to Reno was 1999 MCI 102DL3 #6909, unknown base, sat in Seat 5, left 2nd row, Schedule 8308 San Francisco-Reno. Much nicer seats. Excellent 51 Amaya Patriot PT. Far better than other Greyhound buses. The bus rode very smoothly but the security shield rattled a bit since it was not installed when the bus was built, later retrofitted. Didn't expect to see it in SFD but there it was. Nice driver named Juan. Took an extra stop in Colfax. Departed on time, arrived on time.

Overall, good trip and I will continue to use Greyhound for my travel needs, but I'll be hunting for more 102DL3's, and trying to avoid the X3-45's and D4505's with the original Premier LS-1. However, the YARTS D4500CT's with Premier-2 cloth covers were quite a bit more comfortable. Even better was the AC Transit D4500 with unknown old-fashioned seating.

Anyway, full report coming up with pictures. This report will come on the Amtrak Trip Reports forum as I will also include my Amtrak trip and some photos from the train.

Now if Ricky is going to read this, please do consider riding a G4500 sometime, just because it's more comfrotable than the new buses with Premier LS-1.