Greyhound seats and fleet questions

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I recently perused this interesting site, showing an expanded history of Greyhound, which is celebrating their centennial this year...

http://greyhoundhistory.com/

Only problem was the top of the screen was blocked by a banner telling me (erroneously), that my browser needed to be updated to view the site...

I could still see the majority of it....
It totally doesn't work for me. That sucks.

Just for fun I've been tracking the Greyhound buses I've seen around Seattle for the last few weeks... here are my notes:

6666 White H3-45, only a Greyhound logo on the nose, nothing on the sides

6668 White H3-45, only a Greyhound logo on the nose, nothing on the sides

7028 Blue G4500

7146 Blue G4500

7151 Blue G4500 (spotted this bus 3 times)

7193 Blue G4500

7203 Blue G4500

7246 White G4500, faded decals (spotted this bus 2 times)

7256 White G4500, very faded decals, luggage door was replaced with a plain white door (saw a picture of this bus on GTE in Chicago)

7262 White G4500, faded decals

7263 White G4500, faded decals

7265 Blue G4500

7273 Blue G4500
You saw 7273? I guess they got that thing from Chicago to Seattle somehow, even though Greyhound has no service west of Chicago. I guess it drove south to Saint Louis, took over a New York-Denver sked, then went to Denver, then to Portland, then to Seattle. These G4500's are getting rebuilt very fast, lots of blue ones up and running!

I've actually been keeping track of all the G4500's I could get info on. Current spotted G4500 rebuilds:

[SIZE=12pt]6998 [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]7027 7028 7043 7072 7075 7091 7094 [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]7104 7125 7137 7146 7151 7155 7159 7193 7202 7203 7265 7273 30515[/SIZE]
 
Glad my list was interesting to you... but my spottings are going to all but disappear in the next 2 days.

Right now it's easy for me to see the buses from my apartment and on my way to work as they travel from the depot in West Seattle to the old station in Downtown... but when the station moves to Sodo on Wednesday I'll rarely see Greyhound buses unless I happen to be taking Link and have time to jump off for a few minutes.
 
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That's OK, since the G4500's will pretty much be all rebuilt shortly. Look at your own list, in seven months Greyhound has pretty much rebuilt 75% of the G4500's already. This is backed up by Melvin's spotting from Chicago, every G4500 he has spotted in May has been rebuilt.

Looks like the G4500 rebuild rate is about 1 a day, same as the DL3, but I don't know if that means a good enough job on those things.

Edit: The latest report on GTE is copied below:

"NAPPANEE — One-hundred sixty jobs will be lost when a contract for ABC Companies ends in September. But some of the ABC employees may be able to move to new operations building double-decker buses or small and mid-sized shuttle and specialty buses. ABC announced Monday it will close its factory at 504 S. Oakland Ave, building 12, by Sept. 15. The company leases the facility from Fleetwood. The workers there have been refurbishing high-mileage interstate buses for Greyhound since 2010. The new double-decker bus contract will be fulfilled in a different, nearby factory. According to Jon Savitz, senior vice president of business development for ABC, the new contract will require about 60 workers initially. That contract is with Alexander Dennis of Edinburgh, Scotland. “This was a project to refurbish Greyhound buses that were a certain age and vintage and we have run through the entire population of those buses,” Savitz said. ABC will now begin ramping up operations for the Alexander Dennis contract this fall."
 
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That's OK, since the G4500's will pretty much be all rebuilt shortly. Look at your own list, in seven months Greyhound has pretty much rebuilt 75% of the G4500's already. This is backed up by Melvin's spotting from Chicago, every G4500 he has spotted in May has been rebuilt.

Looks like the G4500 rebuild rate is about 1 a day, same as the DL3, but I don't know if that means a good enough job on those things."
Well that's 75% of the units I've seen... That doesn't exactly mean that Greyhound has refurbished 75% of the G4500's on their roster.

Edit: The latest report on GTE is copied below:

"NAPPANEE — One-hundred sixty jobs will be lost when a contract for ABC Companies ends in September. But some of the ABC employees may be able to move to new operations building double-decker buses or small and mid-sized shuttle and specialty buses. ABC announced Monday it will close its factory at 504 S. Oakland Ave, building 12, by Sept. 15. The company leases the facility from Fleetwood. The workers there have been refurbishing high-mileage interstate buses for Greyhound since 2010. The new double-decker bus contract will be fulfilled in a different, nearby factory. According to Jon Savitz, senior vice president of business development for ABC, the new contract will require about 60 workers initially. That contract is with Alexander Dennis of Edinburgh, Scotland. “This was a project to refurbish Greyhound buses that were a certain age and vintage and we have run through the entire population of those buses,” Savitz said. ABC will now begin ramping up operations for the Alexander Dennis contract this fall."
Did anyone ever confirm that ABC was doing the refurbishments of the G4500? Last we discussed it was still up in the air if the G4500 were getting a total rebuild with new engines or simply getting a fresh coat of paint, new seat covers and WiFi. I'm still inclined to believe they aren't getting a total rebuild.

Either way with this factory closing it means the 102DL3 mid-life rebuild project is over. Any units that remain unbuilt are likely going to be sold and replaced by coaches or confined to charters & tours service.
 
One reason that Greyhound is rather weak in the charter market, (besides their proper emphasis on their line runs), may be that they use their oldest equipment on charter's, in contrast to most charter companies that put their newest and best equipment on charter's.

From what I can observe in my area, Greyhound's charter's usually are providing multiple buses for convention shuttles, where the age, and the amenities of their buses is not all that important.
 
Apparently a few of the DL3's were rejected for a rebuild, and these are the ones still in white. Mainly Greyhound Canada DL3's that took heavy damage in the North. The rejects will be confined to charters. Since the shop closes in September, I think they will still get a few more batches out before DL3 rebuilds are done. I'm thinking three more batches?

As For G4500 rebuilds, it appears that they are indeed getting a reduced rebuild in Greyhound's own shops at Richmond. I'm sure many G4500's were rejected, surprised #7104 wasn't. The Canadian G4500's were probably actually in worse shape than the US ones, despite exterior appearance, so they are getting scrapped.

Greyhound Canada will retire their older DL3's due to massive damage and deffered maintainence, I assume GLC did not improve maintainence until their driver strike in 2011.

I'm thinking Greyhound will eventually come out with something like this rebuilt:

95% of US DL3's

100% of US D4500's

50% of US G4500's

20% of Canada DL3's

?% of Canada D4500's

0% of Canada G4500's

I heard that Greyhound Canada had suspended D4500 rebuilds, but then I saw this: http://cptdb.ca/wiki/images/1/1a/Greyhound_Canada_1153-a.jpg. That's really weird, looks like #1153 was rebuilt to US specs, without the trailer hitch and the Canadian bumper was replaced with a US bumper. So maybe a few more Canadian D4500's will be rebuilt, seeing they are newer than the DL3's but otherwise identical.

#1153 before rebuild: http://www.kevinsbusrail.com/greyhound/d/gry_1153-2.jpg. Wasn't that damaged I guess. I'm thinking #'s 1158, 1179, and 1181 are also good enough to be rebuilt.
 
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On Greyhound's website they say that there are 769 102DL3 (D4500) coaches in the fleet with "nearly 75% equipped with wheel-chair lifts."

That page is simply talking about the US fleet.

It was my understanding that during the rebuild the 102DL3 coaches were getting wheel-chair lift equipped. I'm guessing that of the 190 or so un-rebuilt coaches, Greyhound will save the best of the best for charters & tours service or company service and the rest will probably be sold (or they may be in such bad shape they get scrapped.)
 
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On Greyhound's website they say that there are 769 102DL3 (D4500) coaches in the fleet with "nearly 75% equipped with wheel-chair lifts."

That page is simply talking about the US fleet.

It was my understanding that during the rebuild the 102DL3 coaches were getting wheel-chair lift equipped. I'm guessing that of the 190 or so un-rebuilt coaches, Greyhound will save the best of the best for charters & tours service or company service and the rest will probably be sold (or they may be in such bad shape they get scrapped.)
Remember that rebuilds are still ongoing. So I think about half of those 190 will be rebuilt and the rest were probably rejected. Greyhound used to have 911 DL3's in the US (2011), but 140 were transferred to Canada, apparently 2 of them wrecked, to leave 769.
 
There's something very weird going on with Greyhound's booking system. They are showing huge schedule reshuffling in the second half of June. It appears that Greyhound is explosively expanding LD routes, adding frequencies and huge amounts of through services. But none of this has been reflected in the System Timetable. Apparently Greyhound is not done writing the June 2014 timetable yet.

Basically, Greyhound is offering bookings for Los Angeles-Vancouver, Los Angeles-New York, Los Angele-Chicago, and other through runs that haven't operated for years. This is a radical departure from Greyhound's strategy over the past decade. But I don't know if it's true, because the System Timetable is not updated yet.

Ricky, with regards to Seattle, this may be a sign that Greyhound is closing their Seattle garage, since the offerings of Los Angeles-Vancouver would replace most Seattle-Portland and Seattle-Vancouver schedules.

Railiner, could you please check in New York to see if Greyhound is going to offer a New York-Los Angeles through run? Also, this would replace the New York-Denver, Denver-Las Vegas, Saint Louis-Phoenix, and some Las Vegas-Los Angeles schedules. It's truly a massive reshuffling, if it's true.

Try mock bookings for anytime after June 2014, you'll see what I'm talking about. Again, this could be a computer glitch due to the new booking system, hacking, or even a practical joke. It's not posted on the System Timetable, and there are no Schedule Bullitins or anything on GTE about it.
 
I am not at all familiar with the TRIPS booking system, but can't one book a ticket to anywhere on Greyhound, regardless of a thru bus, or having to make a couple of transfers?

I'll see what I can find out here, but likely, no one here will know, either, until the new TT is published....
 
Ricky, with regards to Seattle, this may be a sign that Greyhound is closing their Seattle garage, since the offerings of Los Angeles-Vancouver would replace most Seattle-Portland and Seattle-Vancouver schedules.
Like you said in an earlier post... Greyhound doesn't operate much of a Garage in Seattle. It's mostly used for cleaning and storage. They will still need a facility of some sort for the Seattle-Stanfield/Missoula route.

But I just did a test booking and your right... you can go from Vancouver, BC to Los Angeles without any transfers. The longest stops are in Seattle (50 min), Portland (60 min) and Sacramento (75 min). The whole trip takes 31 hours bumper to bumper.

To make that possible they must've installed a fueling system at the new station in Seattle.
 
Ricky, with regards to Seattle, this may be a sign that Greyhound is closing their Seattle garage, since the offerings of Los Angeles-Vancouver would replace most Seattle-Portland and Seattle-Vancouver schedules.
Like you said in an earlier post... Greyhound doesn't operate much of a Garage in Seattle. It's mostly used for cleaning and storage. They will still need a facility of some sort for the Seattle-Stanfield/Missoula route.

But I just did a test booking and your right... you can go from Vancouver, BC to Los Angeles without any transfers. The longest stops are in Seattle (50 min), Portland (60 min) and Sacramento (75 min). The whole trip takes 31 hours bumper to bumper.

To make that possible they must've installed a fueling system at the new station in Seattle.
No, they can just refuel the bus in Portland and Sacramento. Any of Greyhound's buses can easily make 600 miles without refueling. Also, you've never taken Greyhound LD's, but they actually empty the trash cans at every major station and the station janitor cleans the bus restroom. So LD buses are usually cleaner than SD buses. You don't need a facility to clean the restroom and empty the trach cans, the station is enough.
 
I am not at all familiar with the TRIPS booking system, but can't one book a ticket to anywhere on Greyhound, regardless of a thru bus, or having to make a couple of transfers?

I'll see what I can find out here, but likely, no one here will know, either, until the new TT is published....
You just have to try a mock booking from New York to Los Angeles. Apprently the route starts on June 27th, 2014. You'll quickly find that there are two options showing "0" transfers. Look at the Schedule Details, it'll go through Saint Louis and Denver.
 
This is the very reason I don't want to ride a Bus from Coast to Coast! In 1963 I rode from San Diego to New London! Never again!

Mega Bus and the fancy new Greyhounds are OK for Regional Day Trips(say Austin to Dallas) but a week of day and night on a Bus is torture!
 
This is the very reason I don't want to ride a Bus from Coast to Coast! In 1963 I rode from San Diego to New London! Never again!

Mega Bus and the fancy new Greyhounds are OK for Regional Day Trips(say Austin to Dallas) but a week of day and night on a Bus is torture!
What is the very reason? It's 65 hours, hardly a week. In 1963 Greyhound buses were narrower, louder, less stable, and much slower than today. Greyhound buses today are even much better than in 2011, let alone 1963. You don't want to ride SD buses too much, they are dirtier than LD buses and have more suspicous passengers.

Maybe I should ride that new Transcon and do a trip report myself to prove that it is fine, even though I have quoted many other trip reports about it before.

Anyway, I'm still waiting for the timetable updates.
 
For a distance that long, a Greyhound seat won't cut it...that's still three nights and two days just in transit. It's still more expensive than Amtrak, too (looking at August 12, Greyhound is $228 in coach and Amtrak is $223.) The length is about the same for the afternoon departure (though Amtrak has no morning option to arrive a bit earlier.) Yes, there's a transfer for Amtrak, but I wouldn't be opposed to a longer layover on a three-night trip anyways. I'm just not sold that Greyhound will have any competitive advantage on this run versus the competition...it doesn't have the price advantage or any real speed advantage.

I wish them luck on this, but I don't see them having a lot of uptake on the long-distance buses. Maybe they enable connections that I'm not aware of (or a straight-shot for some passengers who don't have a straight shot currently and the price is competitive) and so they'll be successful there. But in the end-to-end market I'm skeptical that they'll be popular.
 
I am not at all familiar with the TRIPS booking system, but can't one book a ticket to anywhere on Greyhound, regardless of a thru bus, or having to make a couple of transfers?

I'll see what I can find out here, but likely, no one here will know, either, until the new TT is published....
You just have to try a mock booking from New York to Los Angeles. Apprently the route starts on June 27th, 2014. You'll quickly find that there are two options showing "0" transfers. Look at the Schedule Details, it'll go through Saint Louis and Denver.
Interesting that they are restoring coast to coast thru buses after a several year hiatus....perhaps, (hopefully), they are changing their business model initiated by their former CEO to discouraging long distance travel in favor of short to medium distance 'hub and spoke' scheduling. That campaign has decimated their route map over the past twenty years or so.

The new thru route may even be a first for them.....New York-Kansas City-Denver-Las Vegas-Los Angeles, I don't believe ever happened before. Most thru buses in the past ran New York-St. Lous- Oklahoma City-Amarillo-Albuquerque-Los Angeles, with a few going New York-Chicago-Omaha-Cheyenne-Salt Lake City- Los Angeles, with a variation going from Omaha-Denver-Las Vegas-Los Angeles in later years.

Continental Trailways ran those routes, as well as one that ran New York-Kansas City-Wichita-Liberal-Albuquerque-Los Angeles.

There is no doubt that not many will utilize a bus on a coast to coast trip in this day and age of low cost air carrier's, other than the "backpacker's" consisting of European students over here on vacation, wanting to see the country at 'see-level'.....but it is kind of neat that the option will again be available.
 
For a distance that long, a Greyhound seat won't cut it...that's still three nights and two days just in transit. It's still more expensive than Amtrak, too (looking at August 12, Greyhound is $228 in coach and Amtrak is $223.) The length is about the same for the afternoon departure (though Amtrak has no morning option to arrive a bit earlier.) Yes, there's a transfer for Amtrak, but I wouldn't be opposed to a longer layover on a three-night trip anyways. I'm just not sold that Greyhound will have any competitive advantage on this run versus the competition...it doesn't have the price advantage or any real speed advantage.

I wish them luck on this, but I don't see them having a lot of uptake on the long-distance buses. Maybe they enable connections that I'm not aware of (or a straight-shot for some passengers who don't have a straight shot currently and the price is competitive) and so they'll be successful there. But in the end-to-end market I'm skeptical that they'll be popular.
Check Philadelphia-Los Angeles. That's only $129. And at this point, Greyhound isn't much worse than Amtrak LD Coach. No more overbooking, buffed security, great views out both sides, impeccable bus restrooms, and to many travellers, that Wi-Fi is important. Yes less legroom, but the same recline on some buses, and the views are better with those big windows. Plus Greyhound smells a lot better than they used to.

Most importantly, Greyhound's new route doesn't parralel any Amtrak route. So a sightseer could ride Amtrak one way and Greyhound the other, seeing very different scenery.

I am not at all familiar with the TRIPS booking system, but can't one book a ticket to anywhere on Greyhound, regardless of a thru bus, or having to make a couple of transfers?

I'll see what I can find out here, but likely, no one here will know, either, until the new TT is published....
You just have to try a mock booking from New York to Los Angeles. Apprently the route starts on June 27th, 2014. You'll quickly find that there are two options showing "0" transfers. Look at the Schedule Details, it'll go through Saint Louis and Denver.
Interesting that they are restoring coast to coast thru buses after a several year hiatus....perhaps, (hopefully), they are changing their business model initiated by their former CEO to discouraging long distance travel in favor of short to medium distance 'hub and spoke' scheduling. That campaign has decimated their route map over the past twenty years or so.

The new thru route may even be a first for them.....New York-Kansas City-Denver-Las Vegas-Los Angeles, I don't believe ever happened before. Most thru buses in the past ran New York-St. Lous- Oklahoma City-Amarillo-Albuquerque-Los Angeles, with a few going New York-Chicago-Omaha-Cheyenne-Salt Lake City- Los Angeles, with a variation going from Omaha-Denver-Las Vegas-Los Angeles in later years.

Continental Trailways ran those routes, as well as one that ran New York-Kansas City-Wichita-Liberal-Albuquerque-Los Angeles.

There is no doubt that not many will utilize a bus on a coast to coast trip in this day and age of low cost air carrier's, other than the "backpacker's" consisting of European students over here on vacation, wanting to see the country at 'see-level'.....but it is kind of neat that the option will again be available.
Great thing is that it actually take the most scenic route. Rolling hills and farmland in the East, then Great Plains, then the Front Range, Genwood Canyon, San Rafael Swell, Virgin River Gorge, Cajon Pass. Even better, it now offers a bunch of new connections. For example, you can now get on a Greyhound in Glenwood Springs and get off in Topeka. Or get on in Los Angeles, and get off in Saint George. Or any combination you can think of.

Which brings me to my point: You don't have to ride New York to Los Angeles in one go. The smart way to do it is to take advantage of the minimum 3-times-daily service along the length of the route. Once the PDF timetable gets released, it'll be easy to construct an itinerary across the entire country by hopping on and off various buses at various places, only stopping in where you want to stop, and not having to transfer anywhere you don't want to stop. And if you find the Plains boring, just "skip" over it by riding overnight. There's an option for everybody with this new route structure.

BTW, it's 2x daily New York-Los Angeles, but supported by 1x daily New York-Denver and Denver-Los Angeles, so it's really offering lots of flexibility. I'll probably start a new thread when I get a list of all the new routes. Basically, think of it as a "hop-on hop-off" tour bus across America, not as New York to Los Angeles transpportation.
 
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Sorry Swad, but I'm calling BS...

Amtrak's coach seats are 21" wide with a 50" pitch, leg rests, foot rests and a recline angle that rivals domestic first class on most airliners.

Greyhounds seats are 4 inches narrower and there's no Greyhound bus with a similar recline.

No matter how good Greyhound is getting at maintaining their "impeccable" lavatories... they're still non flushing chemical toilets with hand sanitizer. Basically one step up from a porta potty. I'll take a flushing toilet on a plane or a train over that any day.

Now the WiFi is a very nice feature and a very big advantage for Greyhound and I agree... if you want to see the country and go on an adventure... taking Amtrak one way and Greyhound the other would be a good way to go!
 
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The WiFi and the new buses are a plus but you still can't get up and walk around like you do on a train or go to the cafe or diner for a drink or bite to eat! As for sightseeing out the "bigger" windows, tough to beat a Superliner whether Coach or a Sightseer Lounge!

As to the routes, Greyhound still uses Interstate Highways which are some of the most boring roads in the world! Amtrak goes lots of places where there are no roads! And they are not really price competitive when you consider the comfort levels!

As I said, I'll use Megs Bus on short day trips especially for their low fares but for overnight trips and cross country make mine Amtrak!

Everybody to their own tastes said the old maid as she kissed the cow!
 
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Swadian, when are you going to get that you have personal preferences? So you like the bus. Great. I take busses, but have no desire at all to spend three days on one. Does that make me wrong? No. Does it make your desire to do it wrong? No.

It's like you telling us that since you like pistachio ice cream, it's obviously good. If we don't like it it is either because we don't remember how good it is, or we haven't eaten enough of it to understand how good it is. Pfui. Embrace the variety of life, me boy.
 
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Yes, there is a Greyhound bus with similar recline to Amtrak, but Ricky and Jim have not ridden it before. The same Greyhound offers better views that a Sightseer Lounge, because you can look out the front, both sides, and at a steep upwards angle. The Sightseer has all those, except the front view. And while you think Interstates are boring, the section from Denver to Las Vegas matches the CZ. After all, it takes pretty much the same route. Don't believe me? Ride it.

Amtrak seats are bigger but have worse lumbar support. That means they're better for falling asleep but result in a highly possibility of pain upon waking up. I know because I'm tried sleeping in them before. They're even worse for sitting.

Amtrak has "better" lavatories, but Greyhound ones work fine and they don't leak out the weird smell that fills in Amtrak trains, because Amtrak trains are old and possibly have outdated HVAC. Also, Amtrak HVAC is louder and more annoying than Greyhound HVAC.

Amtrak attendants have generally been less friendly than Greyhound drivers. No surprise since it's boring to be an attendant. Amtrak doesn't offer exiciting "locking and passing" of tractor-trailers. Amtrak doesn't offer three runs a day along a transcon route. Amtrak passengers are generally richer and more arrogant than Greyhound passengers. Tehy look down on anyone that mentions "Greyhound", which includes me.
 
Look, let me just admit something to you. I am happier on Greyhound than on Amtrak.You don't have to agree, but I don't think riding Greyhound is torture at all, I think it's entertainment. Riding Amtrak is not just boring, but also results in tension. I come off Amtrak rides wishing I had ridden Greyhound. Despite Greyhound discouriging photopgrahy, I feel like Greyhound travel has been a part of me, and Amtrak is not.

So it's not that I don't like trains, I just don't like Amtrak. I am very much a railfan, I still take photos of trains whenever I see the chance. In fact, when I saw the CZ passing in Berkeley after almost getting mugged under a bridge, I still tried to shoot it, Didn't turn out well, but at least I tried. I like trains, I just don't like Amtrak, and I don't want to ride Amtrak again. The atmosphere on Amtrak just doesn't fit me.
 
Look, let me just admit something to you. I am happier on Greyhound than on Amtrak.You don't have to agree, but I don't think riding Greyhound is torture at all, I think it's entertainment. Riding Amtrak is not just boring, but also results in tension. I come off Amtrak rides wishing I had ridden Greyhound. Despite Greyhound discouriging photopgrahy, I feel like Greyhound travel has been a part of me, and Amtrak is not.

So it's not that I don't like trains, I just don't like Amtrak. I am very much a railfan, I still take photos of trains whenever I see the chance. In fact, when I saw the CZ passing in Berkeley after almost getting mugged under a bridge, I still tried to shoot it, Didn't turn out well, but at least I tried. I like trains, I just don't like Amtrak, and I don't want to ride Amtrak again. The atmosphere on Amtrak just doesn't fit me.
Then WHY are you on an AMTRAK forum? Do people who don't like Greyhound go on a Greyhound forum and keep talking about how great Amtrak is and how awful Greyhound is?
 
Here, to stop this argument once and for all, I offer something that you may find interesting.

If you want to ride from New York to Los Angeles, then ride Amtrak.

If you want to ride from New York to Pittsburgh to Saint Louis to Salina to Glenwood Springs to Las Vegas to Los Angeles, then ride Greyhound.

If you want to ride across the country, ride Amtrak. If you want to ride across the country and make tons of stops along the way, ride Greyhound.

That is technically the "correct" way to use Amtrak and Greyhound, so most people should agree with it. Personally, I am totally avoiding Amtrak so I wouldn't use such a plan

Look, let me just admit something to you. I am happier on Greyhound than on Amtrak.You don't have to agree, but I don't think riding Greyhound is torture at all, I think it's entertainment. Riding Amtrak is not just boring, but also results in tension. I come off Amtrak rides wishing I had ridden Greyhound. Despite Greyhound discouriging photopgrahy, I feel like Greyhound travel has been a part of me, and Amtrak is not.

So it's not that I don't like trains, I just don't like Amtrak. I am very much a railfan, I still take photos of trains whenever I see the chance. In fact, when I saw the CZ passing in Berkeley after almost getting mugged under a bridge, I still tried to shoot it, Didn't turn out well, but at least I tried. I like trains, I just don't like Amtrak, and I don't want to ride Amtrak again. The atmosphere on Amtrak just doesn't fit me.
Then WHY are you on an AMTRAK forum? Do people who don't like Greyhound go on a Greyhound forum and keep talking about how great Amtrak is and how awful Greyhound is?
I told you already: Because I'm a railfan.

I didn't say Amtrak was awful, I said Amtrak is not the right transport for me. I didn't say Greyhound was perfect, they discourage photography, that's not great.

How many times do I have to say that just because I dislike Amtrak doesn't mean I'm not a railfan?! Am I the only person on this forum that dislikes Amtrak? NO! At least I'm better than pure Amtrak bashers that are NOT railfans, and even they are allowed on this forum!
 
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