Greyhound seats and fleet questions

[Swadian Hardcore]

Greyhound does not buy the cheapest equipment possible. Van Hools are the cheapest buses on the market, and Greyhound is not buying Van Hools. Also, Mexican-made Amaya Torino Standard seats should be cheaper than the American Seating Premier LS they are buying right now. I think Premier LS costs more like Torino VIP which are very comfortable seats.

I believe Greyhound would buy vinyl for durability just like how they bought the DL3 which is a bulletproof bus.

Edit: Greyhound also wanted the G4500 to be tough so its bottom hatches are made of Kevlar. I can understand why Greyhound would rebuilt a Kevlar bus despite the original design flaws and poor construction.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

What's cheaper? A Ford E250 V8 or a short low Mercedes-Benz Sprinter?

Let's use a 10 year 25,000 mile service life:

Ford: ~ $28000, 5000 mile oil change, 10000 mile tune up, 12 miles per gallon, $3.50/gal, residual value $2000

Mercedes: ~$36000, 12500 oil change, 25000 mile tune up, 22 mpg, $4/gal, residual value $10,000.

Ford: Service costs: $8000, Fuel Cost: $72916, depreciation: $26,000

Mercedes: Service Costs: $7000, Fuel Cost: $41666, depreciation: $26,000

Total life costs:

Ford: $106,916.66

Mercedes: $74,666.66

Which is cheaper?

 

[rickycourtney]

GML... I don't really get how your totally uncited example applies to Greyhound.

Swad is right... Van Hool's are cheaper... and notorious for being shop queens as they get older. So you spend less up front but pay a whole lot more in maintenance over time.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Looks like you left out one thing in your Ford vs. The German King of the Road comparo Lion!

Maintence costs while under Warranty and the hugely expensive Parts and Labor once the Benz is out of Warranty!

I'd also look @ Asian Vehicles, Toyotas and Nissans generally Last forever and cost much less than the European Premium Brands!

 

[Green Maned Lion]

If you think parts/labor costs over approximately 8.5 years and 218k miles will equal $32,000, Mr. Hudson, then you might have a point. The under warranty maintenance costs were calculated using pricing from a local Ford dealers website, and a call to a friend who works at a Mercedes dealer for the price of a Type A service ($196 rounded to $200), and a type B service ($475 rounded to $500), which are done on an alternating schedule every 12,500 miles (so a A at 12.5, B at 25k, A at 37.5k, B at 50k, etc). While the parts and labor costs are high, you don't have to service it very often- and it comes our to $1000 less over ten years than the ford, as demonstrated.

I do admit that Mercedes repairs are relatively high; I have personal experience in that area, having run 7 Mercedes a total of about 500k miles over the course of my driving life. In that time 13 years, 500k miles) I have spent $16k on repairs, much of which relating to the fact that all but one of the vehicles I have owned were well over 10 years old and most well over 20. Substantial rust repair is probably half of it.

That being said, I admit I failed to calculate the cost of DEF but that shouldn't be substantial.

The point, Ricky, and how it applies to Greyhound, is that the cheapest option does NOT always have the cheapest purchase price.

The Ford costs $10k less to buy, but excluding repair cost differences, will cost you $32k more to own over 10 years and 250k miles. The same can be true of any maintenance intensive piece of equipment.

As for Nissans and suck lasting forever, a car that can only run for 250-300k miles is not one that lasts forever, but that seems to be most Japanese cars limit.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

My car runs only 5,000 miles a year.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Cool.

 

[railiner]

Curious what those "tune-ups" entail....Ford at 10,000, MB at 25,000?

I thought that modern auto's go more like 100,000 plus before needing things like spark plugs in the spark-ignition, or whatever is considered part of a "tune-up" these days.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

I was looking on Greyhound's website and they are now offering $4 San Francisco-Reno, $9.50 San Francisco-Los Angeles, and $7 Los Angeles-Las Vegas. But if you buy a walk-up at the station, it's $33.50, $56.50, and $57 respectively. Definitely aimed at encouraging better clientele onto the bus while swamping out the suspicious passengers.

Also, Megabus reduced Sparks-San Francisco runs, was 2x daily, now 1x daily, Greyhound, meanwhile, has increased Reno-San Francisco, from 5x daily to 6x daily.

Edit: minor error.

 

[railiner]

Just for nostalgia, I looked at at an August, 1971 Official Bus Guide....

Greyhound ran 10 daily trips between San Francisco and Reno, with five of those continuing to Salt Lake City and beyond. Plus a couple more weekend only trips...

In addition, they ran four more trips via US 50 and South Lake Tahoe.

And, one more via the Feather River Canyon.

And some of the more popular trips ran in multiple sections, as needed.

And then there was also Continental Trailways....

They ran nine daily trips between San Francisco and Sparks, with two of them continuing to Salt Lake City and beyond....

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Just for nostalgia, I looked at at an August, 1971 Official Bus Guide....

Greyhound ran 10 daily trips between San Francisco and Reno, with five of those continuing to Salt Lake City and beyond. Plus a couple more weekend only trips...

In addition, they ran four more trips via US 50 and South Lake Tahoe.

And, one more via the Feather River Canyon.

And some of the more popular trips ran in multiple sections, as needed.

And then there was also Continental Trailways....

They ran nine daily trips between San Francisco and Sparks, with two of them continuing to Salt Lake City and beyond....

Do you still have the times? Could you please scan it? It would be very interesting as I ride that route very frequently.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Curious what those "tune-ups" entail....Ford at 10,000, MB at 25,000?

I thought that modern auto's go more like 100,000 plus before needing things like spark plugs in the spark-ignition, or whatever is considered part of a "tune-up" these days.

Diesel vehicles aren't known for needing spark plugs.

I honestly don't know what it entails on a Ford- when I had one it was a rusty old beater that I gave oil changes every 5000 miles or so and otherwise ignored. Serves me right, I suppose, the tranny went and the engine seized.

On the Mercedes the basic service entails an oil change/filter change, basic inspection, fluid top off, and to my surprise DEF replenishment.

The "tune up" (they call it a service B) includes the basic service, cabin air filter, fuel filter, several fluid changes, wiper blade replacement, tire rotation, and a comprehensive inspection.

I've never really paid much attention to it. I drive in, they give me keys to a loaner, I drive out. They call me, I hand them the keys to the loaner, they hand me the keys to my car (my credit card is on file) and I drive off. I vaguely remembered pricing being about what I mentioned.

What can I say? Quality costs.

 

[railiner]

I did say "spark plugs in the spark ignition"....(understanding they're not found in a compression ignition engine)....

To me, being an 'old-timer', a "tune-up" usually meant new spark plugs, breaker points, condenser; sometimes new spark plug wires, and a distributor cap.

In addition, the timing was adjusted, as was the carburetor(s). This was needed as often as every 10,000 miles in some cars....

The other items you mentioned were done every 3,000 miles in a "lube job".

In those simpler times, many "shade-tree mechanics" would service their own cars. Nowadays, you need to be a technician with high-tech equipment to properly service the modern car.

 

[railiner]

Just for nostalgia, I looked at at an August, 1971 Official Bus Guide....

Greyhound ran 10 daily trips between San Francisco and Reno, with five of those continuing to Salt Lake City and beyond. Plus a couple more weekend only trips...

In addition, they ran four more trips via US 50 and South Lake Tahoe.

And, one more via the Feather River Canyon.

And some of the more popular trips ran in multiple sections, as needed.

And then there was also Continental Trailways....

They ran nine daily trips between San Francisco and Sparks, with two of them continuing to Salt Lake City and beyond....

Do you still have the times? Could you please scan it? It would be very interesting as I ride that route very frequently.

I'd be glad to, if I knew how to do that..... :blush:

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Go to the public library with a Removable Disk and just ask someone. They'll teach you and it'll be done in minutes.

Regarding the Reno terminal, there is new Greyhound Security there, three security guards to suppress vandalism. They now require a pat-down, ticket check, and open-bag check to go in. But they don't actually do it.

 

[Eric S]

So there is signage outside the Reno Greyhound station saying anyone entering is subject to a pat-down and ticket check?

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

So there is signage outside the Reno Greyhound station saying anyone entering is subject to a pat-down and ticket check?

No, not outside, right when you enter. There's a long table for luggage check and metal detectors. Stations with security always ask you for tickets when you enter.

These security guys aren't bad, the ones in Sacramento are much worse.

Anyway, tons of vandals around here. My car got vandalized, my home got vandalized, Greyhound Terminal got vandalized, Amtrak has homeless out front digging for food in the trash cans, just all kinds of weird things going on in Reno.

 

[Eric S]

Wow. My Greyhound (and intercity bus) experience is very limited and I have never encountered anything like that.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Wow. My Greyhound (and intercity bus) experience is very limited and I have never encountered anything like that.

I would take a photo if I could, but photography is not allowed inside the Reno Terminal anymore. Same thing with Sacramento, Oakland, and San Francisco Terminals. I can ask a driver for permission and they always let you. But of course you can take all the photos you want from the street.

Anyways, the Security is actually nice and sociable, they just enforce the No Photography policy within station grounds, probably to stop people making fun of Greyhound.

I'm afraid I can't do this anymore: https://www.flickr.com/photos/95851032@N07/11793048463/in/photolist-iY7srM-ncSj8b-ncSgyT.

But I can still do this: https://www.flickr.com/photos/95851032@N07/14603667207/in/photolist-.

Edit: Actually I can still do the shots from inside the station, I'll just have to ask the driver for permission. I asked a driver once and he found it ridiculous that security stopped photography of buses. Of course he let me take many photos. When riding Greyhound, the drivers are always the nice guys, the other employees are always worse, except for a ticket agent in the Denver Terminal (who was a friend with the aforementioned driver) and the cooks at the Sacramento Food Court.

 

[railiner]

I really don't understand the "no photography" policy....just what are they afraid of? Embarrassment of what ensue's within? Fear of some sort of litigation? Or just "security theater" to make passenger's think they are 'protected" from terrorism, like air traveler's are at airports?

And how are they going to realistically prevent photography, with almost everyone toting smartphones around, that can easily take 'clandestine' photo's?

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

I agree, it is a stupid policy, and I asked the aforementioned driver why they have it. He says he doesn't know either, he agrees that it is ridiculous, and allowed me to take any photos I wanted. His exact words were, "I don't know why they do that. It's just a bus."

That's what I'm talking about, you see buses on the street all the time, what is Greyhound trying to achieve with this stupid policy? This is probably my biggest complaint about Greyhound.

I do have to say, this driver was very calm with everything. When the only troublesome passenger on my six Greyhound rides last week called me a "lowlife" and refused to let me sit by him, the driver walked up, pulled out his cell phone, and said, "He only paid for one seat. (turning to him) You let him sit, or I call the police."

I was thinking he should just call the police! I sat for a few moments but then I found another seat and switched to sit elsewhere. Actually I switched twice because at a rest stop another guy requested a switch with me and I ended up finishing the trip with a furniture-maker from the Bronx named Chris. Could not have been a better turnaround.

That was the Glenwood-Denver ride, Sked 1312 Las Vegas-Denver.

 

[rickycourtney]

Except that they still let you take photos at the airport.

Personally I think that Greyhound uses the guise of "security" as a way to avoid any potential embarrassment. It's really easy to whip out a camera and record and employee or a passenger doing something embarrassing and post it to the internet.

But I think it's a shortsided rule. You alienate passengers who take photos for legitimate reasons... and it's still very easy for people to take clandestine photos and video with a smartphone.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Yeah, that's exactly what I mean! It's ridiculous! My bus photos on the Internet with detailed descriptions and links to interior shots probably do more to help Greyhound then to hurt Greyhound. Yet I still managed to take multiple photos of burned-out #86379 at Denver Garage.

 

[railiner]

Yeah, that's exactly what I mean! It's ridiculous! My bus photos on the Internet with detailed descriptions and links to interior shots probably do more to help Greyhound then to hurt Greyhound. Yet I still managed to take multiple photos of burned-out #86379 at Denver Garage.

That's a change from years past.....when they had something ugly like a wrecked bus towed into the yard, they either brought it inside, or completely covered it from recognition wih tarps. Even when being towed they tried to cover as much as possible from public view....

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Yeah, that's exactly what I mean! It's ridiculous! My bus photos on the Internet with detailed descriptions and links to interior shots probably do more to help Greyhound then to hurt Greyhound. Yet I still managed to take multiple photos of burned-out #86379 at Denver Garage.

That's a change from years past.....when they had something ugly like a wrecked bus towed into the yard, they either brought it inside, or completely covered it from recognition wih tarps. Even when being towed they tried to cover as much as possible from public view....

Which year was that? I heard back when the G's first started burning they covered everything. Lentzsch?