Greyhound seats and fleet questions

[Green Maned Lion]

Or different anatomically.

 

[railiner]

I noticed that our newer buses also have those 'Premier' seats....I have to agree...they are not nearly as comfortable as our pre-2009 seats were. My biggest gripe is the lack of 'shin-room'....I cannot stretch my legs fully under the seats ahead, as I could in the older type seats..

There's a photo of them, with the 'Premier' name clearly visible on our website... http://trailwaysny.com/index.php/the-fleet/

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Laminate floors, vinyl seats.

 

[railiner]

Laminate floors, vinyl seats.

Yup....gotta keep those tree-lover's and vegans happy.....

 

[Green Maned Lion]

They claim leather and wood, shockingly.

 

[railiner]

Don't be shocked...to borrow a quote from the film "North by Northwest", what they are claiming isn't a lie, it's an "expedient exaggeration"......

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

I just rode Philadelphia-based X3-45 #86284 from Denver to Reno. Ugh, sagging seats again. Had to sit on my extra clothes to counteract it. I also counteracted the window position by riding shotgun with the driver. Much better ride, but not very smooth due to being ahead of the wheelbase. Driver was Kit again.

I'm so glad I rode shotgun, passenger HVAC went haywire, and the only working vents were the driver's. The radar was broken too. Kit said the guys in Denver don't know how to fix a X3-45, so they have to send it back to Philly for repairs. That's across the entire country. I think Greyhound should restrict X3-45's to areas that actually know how to run them. It was Kit's first X3-45 and he apparently did not like it, due to the HVAC and radar problems. Kit repeatedly said that he hates modern buses with lots of electronics, including the X3-45.

Also rode Blue G4500 #7029 Denver-Grand Junction Sked 1683 New York City-Los Angeles, return was on D4505 #86535 Sked 1312 Las Vegas-Denver. Had a nice long chat with the driver at Frisco on the return. Same driver both ways. More on that later, I'll just say the Blue G4500 is AWESOME! Driver said it's better than the D4505, and I agree.

Ricky, you may like the window position of the X3-45, I just don't. I think they should raise the seats or lower the windows.

By the way, Greyhound doesn't care about charters, they don't have any charter buses anyway. A DL3 is not a charter bus. They don't care so they use the worst equipment on charters. Every DL3 has gone through rebuild check-ups already, those too damaged for rebuilds are not going to be rebuilt, they will be refurbished and relegated to charter service.

Too bad no DL3's on this trip. Again, I will reaffirm that I am NOT a BIG fan of the X3-45, regardless of sagging seats. To me, it's about the same as a D4505, which I don't hate so much now after riding for 23 hours. Lavatory lights are too dark, people end up peeing and pooping on the floor by accident, especially kids, which were prevalent on all these runs. D4505 has brighter lav lights. LOL, "strong man" in sagging seats for 23 hours, what about a certain seatmate, Chris, who rode transcon round-trip with sagging seats? Well, his Denver-New York City was a 102DL3 (#6541).

Trip report later.

 

[rickycourtney]

I guess we will have to agree to disagree. I'll eventually have to take Greyhound again (it's the only feasible way for me to get to Olympia without renting a car) so maybe I'll get to ride on a refurbished G4500 and give you my thoughts.

I honestly think that the D4505 is a good bus (the complaints I've heard here are way overblown) but I think that the X3-45 is just a bit better. My biggest complaint is that the seats on the newer Greyhound buses SUCK (the same seats are on the D4505 and X3-45). It's a total deal breaker for me on a trip longer than 4 hours. I'm totally willing to deal with it for a short, cheap trip to Portland or Vancouver... but anything longer than that would be torture.

I have to ask... did anyone actually poop on the floor or are you just saying that for dramatics?

The Greyhound D4505 I was on had a burned out light in the bathroom so it was rather dark in there (just one small LED plus natural light from the frosted window)... but I don't think anyone would have been in danger of missing the bowl. On the other hand, I found the lighting inside the lavatory of the X3-45 sufficient at night.

Also, the restroom was clearly NOT serviced between the time the bus arrived in Seattle and departed for LA... and while it wasn't horrible... it didn't smell good. The problem was exacerbated when people "flushed" the bowl.

I did want to say that both of the Greyhound drivers I encountered were top notch. I was really impressed by their professionalism. They both did a masterful job driving in some pretty lousy weather and were very friendly.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

On the first Prevost that was running Dallas-Denver (got on at Colorado Springs), there was both poop and pee on the floor of the lavatory, even though the bus had been cleaned in Amarillo. On the Denver-Reno bus, there was only pee on the floor, which also hahappens on the D4505's.

Perhaps the lav light failed on that run and caused it, or maybe one of the toddlers on board didn't know what to do.

But for some reason, the Blue G4500 lavatory was very clean. The seats had amazing legroom, I could lock my knees with the footrests without brushing the seat in front. Then again, I'm not a huge guy.

I personally think that if one can counteract the sagging seats by piling clothes or whatnot onto the bottom, the X3-45 would be great for night travel, the D4505, IMO, is better for day travel, due to better view range. I know you may prefer the X3-45's higher window bar, but you can't say the view range of passing traffic is that great. I like to watch passing traffic, hard on a X3-45 without hurting my shoulder.

I think you would love the Blue G because it has easy-to-clean window bars like the X, while set lower like the D, and rides amount the same as a J which isn't too bad. High deck, lots of cargo space, drivers love it too. Plus, there is no more plastic smell. GREAT JOB on the G4500, Greyhound!

 

[rickycourtney]

I had no issue with the position of the windows in relation to the height of the seat on the X3-45. I had no problem looking out the window at the scenery (and traffic) even with my seat reclined.

I'm not sure how much any manufacturer could do for those kinds of restroom problems. Passengers will be passengers.

I feel like you're being a bit too apologetic for the horrible seats. No passenger should have to do anything to make the seats comfortable... they should just BE comfortable.

I wish Greyhound would replace them or at least stop buying them... but I guess they think the increase in safety these seats offer outweigh the loss of comfort.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Apologetic? NO! I'm not going to be apologetic about those new seats, you know my favorite bus is the old 102DL3, and you know I also really like the Blue G4500 which has the old seats. I'm just suggesting a solution to deal with the crappy seats that are ruining Greyhound's new buses, X3-45 or D4505 whatever.

IMO they ought to replace all the bottom cushions with American Seating 2005 bottom cushions. Keep the seats, just replace the sagging bottom cushion. But in the meanwhile, I'll have to bring my own cushion for future rides, especially long rides. Gotta do what you gotta do.

You know, Torino G Plus and A2-TEN both offer the same containment as the Premier LS, but are far more comfortable by your own report. I have never sat in those AFAIK.

Sorry, I still ain't a fan of the X3-45, not with haywire HVAC. But the D4505 ain't no good either, I saw #86379 at the Denver Garage, BURNED to a HULK!

 

[Caesar La Rock]

Too much electronics is what's causing issues on transit buses these days on top of motorcoaches. There wasn't a lot of electronics used on Greyhound back in the days when they used the old MC-9s, MC-12s, 102A3s, and Eagle coaches. Especially prior to the 90s.

Never rode on a DL3 for Greyhound, but I did ride one for La Cubana. Those buses were spotless from what I remembered. The Van Hool C2045 I rode on for Mears was clean. The blue and white seats were comfortable too. I didn't inspect the bathroom, but I can safely assume the bathrooms were clean as well.

 

[railiner]

So Swadian, you spent some time at my old territory (Denver).....

Did you happen to take any photo's of the Denver Bus Center? I was there for the grand opening celebration in the Colorado Centennial year 1976, when then Governor Rich Lamm cut the ribbon. Continental Trailways used the gates on the Arapahoe Street side, and Greyhound used the Curtis Street side.At that time, there were separate ticket offices, and bus package express facilities. Greyhound Post House operated the cafeteria, the snack bar, the liquor bar, and the gift shop. Trailways operated a travel bureau for inclusive bus tours. There was also a Traveler's Aid office. It was quite the facility at the time, replacing the old Continental terminal at 17th and Broadway, and the Greyhound terminal at 17th and Glenarm.

You mentioned you were at the garage....I am assuming it is the former Continental Trailways garage at 2450 Curtis Street..... any photo's of that? I worked there from 1974 until 1979.....

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Hi Railiner, I could not openly take photos of Denver Bus Center due to being warded off by security. However, I was able to sneak in two shots, one of a Greyhound X3-45, and one of a Arrow-Black Hills D4505.

I was indeed at the Denver Maintenance Center, 2420 Curtis Street, where I took photos of every bus in the lot, including destroyed D4505 #86379. I did not take photos of the shop across the street, because it was quite run-down and no buses were visible.

I will upload the shots to my Flickr photostream, Swadian H, over time, but I can send you a PM with all those photos if you would like. There's just too much to post here.

Hi CJ, well La Cubana made the mistake of replacing DL3's with J4500's that are even worse. DL3 was the first MCI with the drive-by-wire Detroit 60. Greyhound is trying to equalize mileage by dispatching buses all around the country, but as you may know, that has backfired for the X3-45 because it has very advanced electronic and the Denver mechanics have no idea how to maintain them. So #86284 will need to wait at least three days before the radar and HVAC are fixed, being based from my old city, Philadelphia.

 

[railiner]

Too much electronics is what's causing issues on transit buses these days on top of motorcoaches. There wasn't a lot of electronics used on Greyhound back in the days when they used the old MC-9s, MC-12s, 102A3s, and Eagle coaches. Especially prior to the 90s.

Never rode on a DL3 for Greyhound, but I did ride one for La Cubana. Those buses were spotless from what I remembered. The Van Hool C2045 I rode on for Mears was clean. The blue and white seats were comfortable too. I didn't inspect the bathroom, but I can safely assume the bathrooms were clean as well.

Yeah....I'm another one of those "dinosaur's", that lament the passing of the simpler coaches of the sixties and seventies.....I liked it when we shifted gears, used muscle power to open and close the entrance door, and had none of the ECU issues that modern coaches have...

I liked it when you could open the windows if the A/C happened to fail. The toilets were simple, without the flush complications, the wiring was not 'multiplexed', etc...

Oh, and talk about seating....the old American and National seating companies both had seats that were the most comfortable, this side of the railroad "Sleepy Hollow Seats"...

 

[Caesar La Rock]

.Hi CJ, well La Cubana made the mistake of replacing DL3's with J4500's that are even worse. DL3 was the first MCI with the drive-by-wire Detroit 60. Greyhound is trying to equalize mileage by dispatching buses all around the country, but as you may know, that has backfired for the X3-45 because it has very advanced electronic and the Denver mechanics have no idea how to maintain them. So #86284 will need to wait at least three days before the radar and HVAC are fixed, being based from my old city, Philadelphia.

The first DL3s built came with 6V92TA/8V92TAs from what I've heard, but they switched over to the Series 60 by 93. The DL3s at La Cubana were very nice when I first saw them. That paint scheme they had was awesome as well as those Alcoa rims.

Those were also the first buses I ever rode with Alcoas. The next time I would ride a bus with Alcoas would be in New York City, but that's another story. I'm not sure how J4500s perform, but I'm about to find out when Lynx's three J4500s arrive either late this year or in 2015.

 

[Caesar La Rock]

Too much electronics is what's causing issues on transit buses these days on top of motorcoaches. There wasn't a lot of electronics used on Greyhound back in the days when they used the old MC-9s, MC-12s, 102A3s, and Eagle coaches. Especially prior to the 90s.

Never rode on a DL3 for Greyhound, but I did ride one for La Cubana. Those buses were spotless from what I remembered. The Van Hool C2045 I rode on for Mears was clean. The blue and white seats were comfortable too. I didn't inspect the bathroom, but I can safely assume the bathrooms were clean as well.

Yeah....I'm another one of those "dinosaur's", that lament the passing of the simpler coaches of the sixties and seventies.....I liked it when we shifted gears, used muscle power to open and close the entrance door, and had none of the ECU issues that modern coaches have...

I liked it when you could open the windows if the A/C happened to fail. The toilets were simple, without the flush complications, the wiring was not 'multiplexed', etc...

Oh, and talk about seating....the old American and National seating companies both had seats that were the most comfortable, this side of the railroad "Sleepy Hollow Seats"...

I remembered riding those old MCIs as a kid and man they were unique. Besides the usual MC-5C, MC-7/8/9/96A3/102A3s that I saw, other companies owned motorcoaches like Prevost LeMirages, Prevost H3-41s, Eagles, LAG Panoramics, Jonckheere Deauville coaches, Neoplan motorcoaches and luxury coaches, MAN motorcoaches, and Mears' Cametal CX40s.

1999 was the last year I traveled somewhere on a motorcoach. I would not travel again until a school field trip a few years later, where I rode on a Van Hool T2145 owned by Dynamic Bus Lines to St. Augustine. Then my trip on that Mears Van Hool C2045 was my most recent one.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

.Hi CJ, well La Cubana made the mistake of replacing DL3's with J4500's that are even worse. DL3 was the first MCI with the drive-by-wire Detroit 60. Greyhound is trying to equalize mileage by dispatching buses all around the country, but as you may know, that has backfired for the X3-45 because it has very advanced electronic and the Denver mechanics have no idea how to maintain them. So #86284 will need to wait at least three days before the radar and HVAC are fixed, being based from my old city, Philadelphia.

The first DL3s built came with 6V92TA/8V92TAs from what I've heard, but they switched over to the Series 60 by 93. The DL3s at La Cubana were very nice when I first saw them. That paint scheme they had was awesome as well as those Alcoa rims.

Those were also the first buses I ever rode with Alcoas. The next time I would ride a bus with Alcoas would be in New York City, but that's another story. I'm not sure how J4500s perform, but I'm about to find out when Lynx's three J4500s arrive either late this year or in 2015.

If the La Cubana DL3's were very nice, they should NOT have replaced them with J4500's. The J4500's are made out of fiberglass, like a NABI 45C-LFW that you'll find all over Los Angeles. Even Greyhound's Blue G4500's are far better for fiberglass buses (white G4500 sucks), not to mention the Prevost H3-45.

I did hear that the Restyled J4500 is a lot better, but La Cubana doesn't have those. Regarding that bus company, I found this article: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/14/nyregion/14cubana.html.

Appears that some of them have Torino VIP, others Torino Standard.

 

[railiner]

Nice link, thanks for posting it. Did you notice in frame number five of the slideshow, a shot of the co-driver's sleeper berth? The story did not go into the technical side of the operation, other than briefly mentioning that there were two driver's, with one 'taking a break' while the other drove....

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Bad idea for driver fatigue I guess, because you can't sleep well in a J4500. On the way to/from Denver, our SLC-Steamboat drivers both stayed at the Holiday Inn.

 

[rickycourtney]

Yeah that doesn't seem like a good idea. The "co-driver" really can't be expected to get really restful sleep by kicking back in the front row. I guess if there was a real sleeping berth somewhere... it could work.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Americanos tried a real sleeping berth, but it was at the back right by the dirty, leaking Dina lavatory (Viaggio). I think if you will waste all the space for revenue seats to get a driver's sleeping berth, you might as well pay for a contracted hotel room, as little as $50 a night if the contract goes well.

The article says a ticket on Cubana, 25-hour ride, costs $159, you'll need about 4 seats to get that berth, wasted $636, could pay for at least ten nights with a Holiday Inn contract like Greyhound.

I wonder what the "competition" was for La Cubana, apparently it went bankrupt, so not Greyhound's New York-Miami Limited. Frankly, Greyhound's $82-99 fares would beat La Cubana anytime, since Cubana does not have the huge seats on Central/South American luxury buses. Greyhound does take 30 hours, but Greyhound wastes less daytime because it departs in the evening and arrives two days later in the early morning.

Edit: Seems like La Cubana does have at least one Restyled J, this: https://www.flickr.com/photos/105078061@N02/10497729606/in/photolist-gZDGH1-gZDBh3-gZDB5u-gyS1Jj-gyRrPQ-gyRPq6-gyRRdp.

 

[railiner]

Yeah that doesn't seem like a good idea. The "co-driver" really can't be expected to get really restful sleep by kicking back in the front row. I guess if there was a real sleeping berth somewhere... it could work.

There is a real sleeper berth on the La Cubana buses....look at that link, in the fifth slide....it is located just ahead of the restroom. It is a FHA-legal sleeper berth, just like on a tractor-trailer, that permits two driver's to go cross-country.

No, I wouldn't like to drive that way, thankyou....but the ride is still better than in any truck on the road.....

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Yeah that doesn't seem like a good idea. The "co-driver" really can't be expected to get really restful sleep by kicking back in the front row. I guess if there was a real sleeping berth somewhere... it could work.

There is a real sleeper berth on the La Cubana buses....look at that link, in the fifth slide....it is located just ahead of the restroom. It is a FHA-legal sleeper berth, just like on a tractor-trailer, that permits two driver's to go cross-country. No, I wouldn't like to drive that way, thankyou....but the ride is still better than in any truck on the road.....

I just don't see the point of this. Why waste revenue seats for a sleeping berth when the driver is better off sleeping in a cheaper, more comfortable hotel room? And in a hotel room, he can get a shower, shave, and good food before and after each drive.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

You haven't driven some of the nicer products coming out of Volvo or Paccar, Railiner.