Greyhound seats and fleet questions

[rickycourtney]

You mean like this: https://www.flickr.com/photos/mbernero/13205424073/sizes/l?

Or this: https://www.flickr.com/photos/mbernero/13552785725/sizes/l?

Apparently it only has Wi-Fi but no power outlets or extra legroom. So I'm guessing it's not rebuilt, just repainted and had a Wi-Fi router added.

That's what the bus looked like, right down to the "Charter Services" under the Greyhound logotype.
It makes since that these buses are setup like this. I'm guessing these buses were the best of the best of the 102DL3's that weren't wheelchair equipped. Charter groups likely want more seats per bus and these buses likely see very light service (short drives and a lot of time parked). I wonder if the seats were resurfaced with leather. Not sure if the unrebuilt 102DL3 was in charter service, I didn't see the destination sign or if it was wheelchair equipped.

I found a series of Trailways promo vids: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGOmxz_gXyk.

Also someone who seems to like the D4505 too much: http://www.trivalleycentral.com/opinion/columns/autocouple-he-says-greyhounds-race-to-comfort-forefront/article_69915c54-c4f5-11e3-a51d-0019bb2963f4.html.

And this had a segment praising the D4505 too: http://www.curbsideclassic.com/auto-biography/our-new-future-cc-2013-acura-tsx-sport-wagon-not-an-impulse-buy-for-a-change-but-an-impulsive-1000-mile-29-hour-trip-to-bring-it-home/.

As far as people praising the D4505... different strokes for different folks!Interesting that on BOTH trips... someone lit up a smoke in the back (those pesky passengers!) and both writers appear to be gear heads since they talked about the engines (calling it quiet and smooth).

Both of these men are good examples of "choice passengers" and it sounds like that Greyhound's improved buses impressed and professional drivers kept a potentially bad situation from turning into a "never again" moment.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Hi Ricky, I believe you are mistaken about the Charter Series DL3's. Greyhound drivers say the Charter Services DL3's are the worst of the worst DL3's, too damaged for a rebuild, and were thus not rebuilt, but only repainted and "slightly refurbished". This makes sense because if they are almost dead the only way to keep them making money without having to scrap the whole bus is to run Greyhound's limited charter operations.

I'm pretty sure Greyhound already rebuilt all the wheelchair-lift equipped DL3's, due to fleet shortages caused by ADA. The remaining white DL3's are all "illegal" (no wheelchair lift) and may be rebuilt with lifts as part of the last batch this summer, or they will simply be repainted and relegated to Charter Services. Greyhound will at least make sure their whole fleet is blue and Wi-Fi equipped as soon as possible, for PR purposes. Then they can say "Wi-Fi on every bus, every route, every schedule, everywhere we go!"

I heard from a D4505 driver on Flickr that his passengers frequently comment positively about his coach, even though he agrees the 102DL3 is far more comfortable.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Three pointed stars that will burn at Pittsburgh on the New York-Los Angeles run.

Pfui. MCI may be the big bus builder in the US and Canada. But throughout Europe, Africa, the Middle East, and Latin America, the dominant bus builder is Mercedes-Benz. The second largest IIRC is Volvo. There is but one reason MCI remains the dominant American player- Buy American requirements force practically all commuter lines to buy them.
That Mercedes remains the dominant builder in countries besides Germany, countries where Mercedes does not imply prestige so strongly outside of large luxury cars, means that there is a reason besides the badge that people are willing to pay extra for a Mercedes product.

But to a kid who thinks that the economical way to run a business is to run old equipment into the ground, I doubt I can ever get through your prejudices.

 

[Caesar La Rock]

How long will it take for the entire fleet to be blue and to have Wifi? I assume it shouldn't be long, since Greyhound has been making progress. I've seen some blue 102-DL3s running around.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

It's supposed to be done by September 2014, except for spare buses, as in not MCI 102DL3, D4500, D4505, MCI-Dina G4500, and Prevost X3-45.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

We're departing on the Greyhound LD to Denver tonight. I'm going to try proving to others that long bus rides ain't that bad at all. Best way to prove it: a long Greyhound bus ride with other people. God Bless America! God Bless Greyhound!

 

[Green Maned Lion]

That doesn't prove anything other than you enjoy it. To prove it to somebody else you'd have to take them with you. I've done it. I think it's fine except for the fact that I can't lay down.

 

[railiner]

Mark is an Adirondack driver, using a Pine Hill bus on an Adirondack run (number 121). He is on the return trip to NYC from Oneonta, in that video.

I thought Oneonta-New York was a Pine Hill route. But I found out that 121 is a local via Grand Gorge and Kingston. So, what's 121B? Says there's a connection at Kingston?

Adirondack runs Oneonta/Kingston mainly along Highway 23. Pine Hill uses mostly Highway 28. Both run from Oneonta to Kingston, then the same stops on to The City.

The 'B' on the timetable is for internal accounting use....

 

[rickycourtney]

Hi Ricky, I believe you are mistaken about the Charter Series DL3's. Greyhound drivers say the Charter Services DL3's are the worst of the worst DL3's, too damaged for a rebuild, and were thus not rebuilt, but only repainted and "slightly refurbished". This makes sense because if they are almost dead the only way to keep them making money without having to scrap the whole bus is to run Greyhound's limited charter operations.

I wouldn't see why Greyhound would want to stick charter customers (a very competitive industry) on the "worst of the worst".

I have no evidence about which coaches did and did not get refurbished... but ABC always said that Greyhound sent them the "worst of the worst". The thinking being that it was most fiscally prudent to rebuild the coaches that had the highest ongoing maintenance costs.

But I could be wrong.

I'm pretty sure Greyhound already rebuilt all the wheelchair-lift equipped DL3's, due to fleet shortages caused by ADA. The remaining white DL3's are all "illegal" (no wheelchair lift) and may be rebuilt with lifts as part of the last batch this summer, or they will simply be repainted and relegated to Charter Services. Greyhound will at least make sure their whole fleet is blue and Wi-Fi equipped as soon as possible, for PR purposes. Then they can say "Wi-Fi on every bus, every route, every schedule, everywhere we go!"

I think they can say that as soon as the buses used on scheduled services are refurbished. It really doesn't count if the charter buses aren't WiFi equipped... although it's better for Greyhound's brand to have all the charter buses repainted.

I heard from a D4505 driver on Flickr that his passengers frequently comment positively about his coach, even though he agrees the 102DL3 is far more comfortable.

Yup. Customers like a *new* bus with all the bells and whistles (leather seats, outlets and WiFi) and they only care that the bus is *decently* comfortable.

Frankly I blame the airline industry... but many leisure customers don't care that the airline removed an inch of legroom as long as they added setback TV's and WiFi.

Most people don't travel Greyhound enough to realize that the Patriot seats are more comfortable than the Premier... they just think "nice! this bus has leather seats, not those crappy cloth ones."

What Greyhound needs is a fleet awash with three pointed stars. It would attract passengers by the train load.

Except that Daimler refuses to allow Setra to use the three pointed star logo in the USA.

Pfui. MCI may be the big bus builder in the US and Canada. But throughout Europe, Africa, the Middle East, and Latin America, the dominant bus builder is Mercedes-Benz. The second largest IIRC is Volvo. There is but one reason MCI remains the dominant American player- Buy American requirements force practically all commuter lines to buy them.

Okay so MCI can sell commuter coaches to public transit agencies... what's your point?

We are talking about a privately owned line-haul operator that can choose to buy anything they want... so why does Greyhound continue to place orders from Prevost and MCI... and not from Setra? Clearly management has a reason for not buying Daimler's product.

It's supposed to be done by September 2014, except for spare buses, as in not MCI 102DL3, D4500, D4505, MCI-Dina G4500, and Prevost X3-45.

It amuses me that you continue to refer to the G4500 as being built by "MCI-Dina". As much as MCI would rather forget the G4500 (and the F3500)... it's still their product. By 2001, MCI had merged with Dina and the plant in Mexico was being run by MCI. It wasn't like it was a bus being built under contract by another company.

 

[railiner]

I have seen the MB logo on the engine doors of the Setra buses, but not on the front. Even though owned by Daimler Benz, the Setra's are considered as Kassbohrer buses. If you look at the home web sites, Kassbohrer-Setra has a separate site from the actual Mercedes-Benz buses, which have not been imported into the US for a long time.

They had a brief foray into the US in the late sixties-early seventies. I recall Gray Line of Washington and I believe Boston tried out their model O-302 touring coaches. The Port Authority of NY &NJ had some MB transit buses used as intra-airport shuttles at their airports....oh, and Greyhound tested a Mercedes engine in one of the two prototype MC-6X Supercruiser's in 1967. It spent most of the three month trial on the New York/Chicago Nonstop in the shop, unfortunately....the other prototype had a Detroit Diesel 12v-71, which proved reliable and won the competition for the 100 production models to follow.

I can't be certain, but perhaps the Setra's with the Mercedes Star have an MB engine. That may be why they can have that logo on the engine door. But I am not sure if some of the Setra's with that logo may have a Detroit '60 Series' for power.....

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

In Denver right now. D4505 #86307 through dispatch SFD-DEN. Damaged but ran well. Full load the whole way. On time arrivals. Slept 7.5 hours in segments. Sagging new seats. Smooth ride, great drivers. Loved Berthoud Pass.

Many blue G4500's in Denver. Some EXTRAORDINARILY bad white G4500's sitting in SLC. Not much DL3's or D4505's. Broke down X3-45 sitting in SLC, no visible number.

Most pax took 1314 in SLC instead of the faster 1318. Few pax from local stops. 1318, blue G #7199, was delayed and arrived at the same time as 1314, our bus. Many missed connections. Extra bus for 1684 to New York.

More details to follow.

 

[Caesar La Rock]

I just got word that there are two Volvo 9700 demos for Greyhound, in Miami right now.

 

[railiner]

In Denver right now. D4505 #86307 through dispatch SFD-DEN. Damaged but ran well. Full load the whole way. On time arrivals. Slept 7.5 hours in segments. Sagging new seats. Smooth ride, great drivers. Loved Berthoud Pass.

The highest point on the Greyhound System.....http://www.coloradoguy.com/berthoud-pass.htm Prior to the opening of the Eisenhower Tunnel which Interstate 70 passes thru, the old US-6 over Loveland Pass was the highest.... Greyhound inherited all their Colorado mountain routes from Continental Trailways. Greyhound used the "Overland Route" thru Wyoming, and also Raton Pass to go west from Denver...

 

[metrolinecoach111]

I have seen the MB logo on the engine doors of the Setra buses, but not on the front. Even though owned by Daimler Benz, the Setra's are considered as Kassbohrer buses. If you look at the home web sites, Kassbohrer-Setra has a separate site from the actual Mercedes-Benz buses, which have not been imported into the US for a long time.

I can't be certain, but perhaps the Setra's with the Mercedes Star have an MB engine. That may be why they can have that logo on the engine door. But I am not sure if some of the Setra's with that logo may have a Detroit '60 Series' for power.....

All of Academy's Setras have the Mercedes Benz logo on the front and the back:

Front: http://www.bus-bild.de/bilder/setra-s-417-hdh-us-15806.jpg

Back: http://busexplorer.com/NABus/Images/MidSize/AcademySetra-2.jpg

Then again, I'd say this is more the exception than the rule - they specifically requested that the logo be placed on their units (all 50 of them). As you very well know from being in the industry and working with them from time to time, whatever FT wants, FT gets.

 

[metrolinecoach111]

I have seen the MB logo on the engine doors of the Setra buses, but not on the front. Even though owned by Daimler Benz, the Setra's are considered as Kassbohrer buses. If you look at the home web sites, Kassbohrer-Setra has a separate site from the actual Mercedes-Benz buses, which have not been imported into the US for a long time.

I can't be certain, but perhaps the Setra's with the Mercedes Star have an MB engine. That may be why they can have that logo on the engine door. But I am not sure if some of the Setra's with that logo may have a Detroit '60 Series' for power.....

All of Academy's Setras have the Mercedes Benz logo on the front and the back:

Front: http://www.bus-bild.de/bilder/setra-s-417-hdh-us-15806.jpg

Back: http://busexplorer.com/NABus/Images/MidSize/AcademySetra-2.jpg

Then again, I'd say this is more the exception than the rule - they specifically requested that the logo be placed on their units (all 50 of them). As you very well know from being in the industry and working with them from time to time, whatever F.T. wants, F.T. gets.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

In Denver right now. D4505 #86307 through dispatch SFD-DEN. Damaged but ran well. Full load the whole way. On time arrivals. Slept 7.5 hours in segments. Sagging new seats. Smooth ride, great drivers. Loved Berthoud Pass.

The highest point on the Greyhound System.....http://www.coloradoguy.com/berthoud-pass.htm Prior to the opening of the Eisenhower Tunnel which Interstate 70 passes thru, the old US-6 over Loveland Pass was the highest.... Greyhound inherited all their Colorado mountain routes from Continental Trailways. Greyhound used the "Overland Route" thru Wyoming, and also Raton Pass to go west from Denver...

Yeah, I know, great scenery. Today's 1314 arrival from Reno was a DL3, would have preferred that bus. More comfortable. When we were departing Reno we passed a DL3 arriving as 1345, I think it went back to Denver and arrived today.

1318 was horribly late today, three hours late, D4505 coming in from Portland.

Oh yeah the 1314 "local" was not local at all, only stopped at Vernal, Craig, and Steamboat between SLC and DEN, along with RS Heber City, RS Vernal, and RS Granby. No reason to take 1318 after SLC.

Computer at the hotel isn't working well, will have to post Trip Report later.

 

[rickycourtney]

Took an impulse trip down to Portland today for the Oregon Brewers Festival (which was amazing!). Took Greyhound schedule 1443 down and BoltBus back up. I'll give a full report tomorrow.

 

[railiner]

I have seen the MB logo on the engine doors of the Setra buses, but not on the front. Even though owned by Daimler Benz, the Setra's are considered as Kassbohrer buses. If you look at the home web sites, Kassbohrer-Setra has a separate site from the actual Mercedes-Benz buses, which have not been imported into the US for a long time.

I can't be certain, but perhaps the Setra's with the Mercedes Star have an MB engine. That may be why they can have that logo on the engine door. But I am not sure if some of the Setra's with that logo may have a Detroit '60 Series' for power.....

All of Academy's Setras have the Mercedes Benz logo on the front and the back:

Front: http://www.bus-bild.de/bilder/setra-s-417-hdh-us-15806.jpg

Back: http://busexplorer.com/NABus/Images/MidSize/AcademySetra-2.jpg

Then again, I'd say this is more the exception than the rule - they specifically requested that the logo be placed on their units (all 50 of them). As you very well know from being in the industry and working with them from time to time, whatever FT wants, FT gets.

Good catch! I'd not noticed that....

***

Maybe 'FT' "made them an offer, they couldn't refuse".....

 

[rickycourtney]

I have seen the MB logo on the engine doors of the Setra buses, but not on the front. Even though owned by Daimler Benz, the Setra's are considered as Kassbohrer buses. If you look at the home web sites, Kassbohrer-Setra has a separate site from the actual Mercedes-Benz buses, which have not been imported into the US for a long time.

I can't be certain, but perhaps the Setra's with the Mercedes Star have an MB engine. That may be why they can have that logo on the engine door. But I am not sure if some of the Setra's with that logo may have a Detroit '60 Series' for power.....

All of Academy's Setras have the Mercedes Benz logo on the front and the back:

Front: http://www.bus-bild.de/bilder/setra-s-417-hdh-us-15806.jpg

Back: http://busexplorer.com/NABus/Images/MidSize/AcademySetra-2.jpg

Then again, I'd say this is more the exception than the rule - they specifically requested that the logo be placed on their units (all 50 of them). As you very well know from being in the industry and working with them from time to time, whatever FT wants, FT gets.

Good catch! I'd not noticed that....***

Maybe 'FT' "made them an offer, they couldn't refuse".....

Those emblems are dinky, especially compared to the huge "SETRA" nearby. If Daimler was really interested in branding these buses as "Mercedes Benz" they would need to be a lot bigger and the SETRA nameplates would need to be dropped.

 

[rickycourtney]

So as I mentioned last night I took an impulse down to Portland yesterday to attend the legendary Oregon Brewers Festival. A bit about the festival, there are 88 craft beers on tap from 85 breweries across the country (plus dozens of rare, speciality beers) all at Portland's waterfront park... it was INCREDIBLE. If you're a fan of craft beer... this needs to be on your bucket list.



I was initially hesitant to go since the weather was not supposed to be good (beer wasn't the only thing pouring!) but my fiancée encouraged me to go anyway.

I went to go look at ticket prices and times at around 8:30 pm on Tuesday. Amtrak's schedule wasn't ideal and tickets were $76 round trip. BoltBus had a good schedule, the fastest travel time (3hr, 15min) but right as I went to book my ticket, one leg sold out! At that point BoltBus sends you to Greyhound to see if there is a schedule that works. I ended up grabbing a ticket on schedule 1443 which takes a bit longer (4hr, 5min).

When I arrived to find the new Seattle Greyhound station PACKED with people and very few seats available so I opted to stand (plus the Greyhound's metal seats don't look comfortable... at all). Other than that, it's a nice enough place to wait for a bus. They have TV's with CNN, vending machines, free WiFi and power outlets... pretty much all the amenities we've come to expect at airports.

When boarding time came, we got D4505 #86363, the passengers going to Stanfield, OR were stuck with a busted up white G4500.



Overall the trip on Greyhound was fine... the driver was excellent (he didn't take ANY crap, but seemed nice overall and I commend him for the masterful job he did during several torrential downpours), the bus was PACKED for most of the trip and the D4505 rode smooth. The passengers were okay, some were a bit rowdy and rough around the edges (but nothing I haven't seen a thousand times before on King County Metro buses.) The trip ran mostly onetime although we arrived in Portland 15 minutes late due to traffic.

But here is my biggest complaint... the seats are HORRIBLE. The bus had the original Premier seats and they are just as hard as a rock, no lumbar support, no footrest and they barely recline. I just can't fathom why Greyhound continues to buy these seats. The only logical explanation is for safety over comfort.

My other smaller complaints...

* Too many long stops. The bus is scheduled to make a 10 minute stop in Tacoma and Olympia but since the driver was running early they turned into 15/20 minute "smoke break" stops. When we arrived at Centralia we were running a little late but that's the "rest stop" so we stopped for another 10 people had a chance to run into the Chevron to buy snacks. We only made one "brief stop" which was at Kelso.

* The power outlets are totally hit and miss. Mine didn't work, the pair behind me didn't work, but the pair across the aisle and ahead of me did. Thankfully the guy ahead of me let me plug in.

* Greyhound allowed passengers to bring whatever luggage they wanted onboard... to the point where it was spilling out into the aisles. On BoltBus and Amtrak's thruway buses you're allowed to bring smaller items onboard, but all suitcases have to go under the bus. Also I get why Greyhound likes the bungee cord luggage racks... but I still would prefer enclosed luggage racks. I had to help an elderly lady with her small suitcase which ended up becoming the two of us fighting the bungee cords to get her bag into the bin. It would have been much simpler with a door.

On the way back I took Greyhound's BoltBus service. Overall I think that Greyhound does a great job with this service. The driver's are clearly amongst Greyhound's most experienced and the best at customer service. Our driver was telling jokes over the PA and was very helpful loading and unloading luggage and bikes. My only complaint is that the bus didn't have the BLUE system installed and my iPhone wouldn't connect to the WiFi.

On the BoltBus route we rode in an X3-45 (#0862)... and while the D4505 is a good bus... the Prevost is better.

* The D4505 has a nice ride, but the X3-45 is smooth like silk.

* The A/C vents along the windows are smaller (easier to keep clean). This is what the D4505's looked like... YUCK!



* The overhead A/C was stronger and easier to control.

* The curved windows give you the same feeling you get in Amtrak's sightseer cars (I enjoyed laying back and looking up at the sky.)

Overall, the concerns about luggage capacity are totally overblown. With a nearly sold out bus, there was no problem with the luggage compartment overflowing.

Also I've attached some pictures of the Portland Greyhound depot (with a 102DL3, G4500, X3-45 and D4505) for Swadian to geek out on!

 

[Bob Dylan]

Really nice pics and info! Portland is a really great place to visit when the weather is nice whether you get there on a train or bus! I'd imagine even I would take a Bus on a short trip (but Not Long Distance!)if it was much cheaper than a Cascade or Starlight ticket!

 

[rickycourtney]

I'd imagine even I would take a Bus on a short trip (but Not Long Distance!)if it was much cheaper than a Cascade or Starlight ticket!

To that point Jim... my round trip ticket cost under $40 and I booked less than 12 hours before departure. If you do a bit of planning you can get tickets for a lot cheaper than that.For comparison Amtrak's current low-bucket "value" fare between Seattle and Portland is $52.

It's also worth mentioning that takes 3 hr, 50 min on the Cascades (4 hr, 15 min on the Starlight) vs. 3 hr, 15 min on BoltBus. Those times will improve when the Point Defiance bypass is finished (of course one of the most scenic portions of the Cascades will also be eliminated.)

If you ask me, the addition of BoltBus to the corridor is a big reason why the ridership on the Cascades has taken a big hit. The bus is cheaper, faster and offers many of the same amenities (free WiFi, power outlets).

That being said... I could never see myself spending more than 4 hours on a Greyhound bus... those seats are just too uncomfortable. Anything longer than 4 hours, I'll fly or take a train.

 

[railiner]

Nice report, thanks for posting....

So the new terminal at Seattle is at capacity? Only four bays? How's that working out?

The Portland terminal appears to be a lot larger....

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Hey guys, I rode Greyhound down to Colorado Springs today for the Cog Railway. On the way down t was White G4500 #7064 headed to Dallas, on the way back was Prevost X3-45 #86264 headed from Dallas.

Honesty, I was disappointed with the X3-45. Don't get me wrong , it's a great bus. The ride was smooth as silk, like Ricky described. But the windows were the problem. They were too high and my shoulder was stuck up against the window bar when I tried to looked outside. The D4505 windows are lower, ad the window bar o the D4505 can actually was used as a armrest. NOT on the X3-45. The seats also sagged. I could not sleep on the X3-45 (sagging seats) nor could I view the scenery (misplaced windows). Riding the X3-45 feels like riding Amtrak without a Sightseer Lounge, and I don't like riding Amtrak.

I actually really enjoyed White G #7064. It was beat up but clean and smooth-riding. The seats were worlds better than the new ones on the X3-45. Also, the windows were bigger. I actually preferred this bus over the X3-45. Sorry guys, but this is my honest opinion. Also, I prefer the 102DL3 over the X3-45, D4505 is about the same. Blue G4500 must be great. I can understand why Greyhound would fully rebuild the G4500 now.

Also, every bus out of DEN has been PACKED except for the X3-45 arrival from DAL. NEED more buses here!

Burlington got some new plain white J4500 Restyled buses running to Indy. Black Hills running D4505's only.

I'm being honest here. I am NOT happy with the X3-45, and I believe it needs either better seats or better windows. I AM happy with the White G, despite heavy exterior damage.

Go Greyhound! God Bless America!

 

[rickycourtney]

But the windows were the problem. They were too high and my shoulder was stuck up against the window bar when I tried to looked outside. The D4505 windows are lower, ad the window bar o the D4505 can actually was used as a armrest. NOT on the X3-45. The seats also sagged. I could not sleep on the X3-45 (sagging seats) nor could I view the scenery (misplaced windows). Riding the X3-45 feels like riding Amtrak without a Sightseer Lounge, and I don't like riding Amtrak.

I wholeheartedly disagree. I found the bottom of the windows to be at a comfortable position for me to rest my arm on. I also found it to be better for this purpose because the top of the emergency escape bar is enclosed (it even has a nice concave shape that fits the curve of your arm) unlike the bar on the MCI (which as I pointed out earlier was sticky and covered in crud.)

The seats aren't a Prevost vs. MCI problem. Greyhound chooses which seats are equipped. I think it's time they start buying something else (or at least find a way to further retrofit and improve the Premier). Those seats are so incredibly uncomfortable as to be a deal breaker for me. I don't know how you spent nearly 24 hours in one... you're a stronger man than I.