Greyhound seats and fleet questions

[Caesar La Rock]

As for whether European buses could outperform US buses, that's up for debate.

 

[rickycourtney]

I have some rare AM time today, and I'll just say, go to Greyhound Reno and see what passengers are riding the bus. Not the same passengers as Megabus or BoltBus. You'll see older people and children.

You have to understand that Reno is such a small example of Greyhound's system.

As I see it, Greyhound has two big customer bases:

* People (everyone including families, older adults) who travel Greyhound because they can't afford anything else.

* Younger people who are choosing to take Greyhound for a variety of reasons (cost, convenience, being green)

From what you've said before it sounds like that second group hasn't really trickled into Reno yet (hopefully the

Greyhound Express routes will encourage younger people in San Francisco to come to the casino's in Reno for the weekend, but it sounds like isn't exactly an easy walk from the the Greyhound station to the Casinos in the summer heat.)

I would be more curious about what passengers are riding the Greyhound in Texas. Greyhound has focused heavily on connecting the major towns in that state. Pardon the pun but it's also been a dog fight between Megabus and Greyhound Express since both services started in Texas at about the same time. It's also where Southwest Airlines made a name for themselves... connecting Dallas, Houston and San Antonio and that's exactly what Greyhound and Megabus are trying to do now (except with buses).

Yes, passengers could and did feel the difference between a 102A3 and a MC-9 or MC-12. The extra 1.5" of width per seat helps, and on longer trips, it helps a lot. Greyhound's MC-9's had extra legroom for 43 seats, which made up for it, the 102A3 and MC-12 both had 47 seats, and the MC-12 was BAD with 47 seats, the 102A3 wasn't, because it was wider. Greyhound could have quickly recovered its reputation after the Disasters, by ordering the 102A3/102B3 with 43 seats. But no, they ordered the MC-12 with 47 seats. Competition is one thing, reputation is another.

No amount of seats on buses was gonna put the toothpaste back in the tube after the "disasters" (I assume you're referring to the passengers and drivers who were assaulted). It would have taken a massive ad campaign and the company very visibly increasing security (things that are just now happening.)

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Greyhound tested the Setra S-407 and the MCI D4505 side-by-side on Dallas-Los Angeles. The D4505 won, but that route now has X3-45's too, from Dallas Garage. Meanwhile, G4500's were ousted from the route.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Greyhound has not increased service in the DAL-HOU-AUS triangle for a while. Instead they increased services on the DAL-LAD. Greyhound is turtling against Megabus while attacking where Megabus doesn't operate.

No, you still have the customer base wrong. I have seen all too many people DRIVE to the Reno terminal and then go in to ride, the families and people that can more definitely afford air travel. You're not wrong, there are those two customers bases, and one more: road trippers that are sick and tired of driving and decided to leave the driving to Greyhound.

That's why Greyhound's new ad campaign says "GO GREYHOUND AND LEAVE THE DRIVING THE US", and that's why Greyhound's newest ads popping up say "TRAVEL WORTHY OF AN ENCORE". That means Greyhound wants people who swore off Greyhound before, the older generation, to try Greyhound again, hence "encore".

No, the attacks and beheading came AFTER the disasters. The disasters were in the 1980's and early 1990's, the strikes, union-scab fights (violent fights with weapons), dirty buses and stations, smaller seats, legroom, etc. That's what caused the clientele to deteriorate and that's why the attacks and beheading followed.

By the way, Vince Weiguang Li, the man who did the beheading, was actually an educated immigrant from China with an university degree, not the "crazies" that caused the other attacks.

 

[rickycourtney]

I'm sure Greyhound has learned to know better than to buy the junk MCI has been building the past few decades.

I assume they will soon start buying Setras like a sane company.

I'm pretty sure you're trolling here... but I'll put in my 2 cents.

Some of Greyhound's MCI 102DL3's and D4500 are pushing 16 years old. That alone would be a heck of a feat for many motorcoaches. But instead of being retired, they were refurbished and are probably good for another 10 years. Here's the thing, they look almost brand new. I'm sure many will see 25 years on the road before retirement. That's a huge testament to MCI's quality.

As an aside, there's a charter company that runs a bunch of 10-15 year old Setra's here in Seattle from the airport to the cruise terminals... they look beat up and their engines belch out black smoke whenever the driver hits the gas. Those units see a lot less miles every year than Greyhound's 15 year old MCI's do.

 

[Caesar La Rock]

Now that I'm done with something else, I'll throw my two cents on MCI's past coaches for a few decades ago. The MC-9s are still running around down here for charter, churches, and other companies.

They haven't build those things since 1990 and some of those coaches have to be over 25-30+ years old at best. Some even have MC-8s, dating from the 1970s. One of my friends saw a 1978 MC-5C not too long ago.

MCI's old coaches have proven themselves to be workhorses in Greyhound and outside of Greyhound to this very day. There are also old 102-DL3s here, some of which sport those square rear taillights used on the A, B, C Series buses as well as the MC-12s.

The 102-DL3s being in service for 16 years and counting is amazing. I wouldn't call those MC Series, the A, B, C, and D Series junk, since many of them are still running around to this very day.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

I didn't say that all coaches MCI ever built were junk. That would be trolling.

What they are building now is junk. They had a near monopoly on the bus business for a long time. It gets to your head. There is a reason Greyhound has switched to Provost Car instead of their former subsidiary. It's not for overwhelming love of MCI products, I would assume.

Let us remember that at one time Andre Citroen was THE foremost automotive pioneer. He delivered the Traction Avant, the first mass produced car to feature any of the following- front wheel drive, collapsible steering, monocoque construction. And then he blew that all away to deliver the Citroen DS, a car so advanced, the next car to even come close in advancement was the Tesla Model S.

And now they are a manufacturer of cheap, generally crappy economy cars.

Any company who is willing to release a product as flawed as the G4500 is a company I wouldn't buy from.

Bad maintenance is not an indication of a bad product.

 

[rickycourtney]

Setra has a great-looking product for the European market... but I wonder how well it translates to the American market.

Both the TopClass S 417 and the ComfortClass S 407 seem to be designed for charter and tour operators. I wonder if they would be up to the challenge of the long-haul scheduled services that Greyhound runs.

The Amtrak California Thruway Motorcoach route from Bakersfield to Santa Barbara uses the Setra ComfortClass S 407 but that's the only scheduled service that I've seen using a Setra.

Also... it seems to be a moot discussion at this point. Greyhound's days of buying hundreds of motorcoaches per year seem to be over. The last major order was for 55 Prevost X3-45 coaches in November 2013. All of those buses were expected to be delivered by May 2014.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

The other reason it's a moot point, is because of Daimler.

Anyway, Greyhound might buy some more buses to upgrade service out of Vancouver and Seattle. But ridership there still seems low.

 

[rickycourtney]

The other reason it's a moot point, is because of Daimler.

Is that a joke? Because I don't get your point.

Anyway, Greyhound might buy some more buses to upgrade service out of Vancouver and Seattle. But ridership there still seems low.

Why? Vancouver and Seattle just got a bunch of refurbished G4500 buses. If anything they'd give BoltBus new buses and give Greyhound hand me down 2009 X3-45 buses.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Daimler's not a joke. I'm being serious.

 

[railiner]

To reiterate my humble opinion on MCI....back when Greyhound Corporation owned both Greyhound Lines and Motor Coach Industries, I believe the engineers at GL demanded and received an excellent coach. The MC-5, 7, 8, and 9 went from relative obscurity as a Canadian builder, to the world's pre-eminent coach builder during their stewardship.

They knocked the former standard, General Motors, literally out of the business in 1980, although the government's anti-trust war on GM had a lot to do with that.

The letter series A-B-C started off with great promise, but when the bus line and the manufacturer were 'divorced' during the tumultous period, that was when I believe MCI started its downward slip, where their accountants looked to cut build expense, rather than improve quality, and they opened the door for Prevost, Van Hool, Setra, and other's to erode their market share.

 

[Caesar La Rock]

Coincidentally, both Setra and Van Hool entered the coach market in 1984. Neoplan USA was already making luxury coaches prior to Setra and Van Hool coming in. They also exported coaches to the US in the mid 70s.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Apparently a big problem with the 102C3 was that it's very hard to install a wheelchair lift compared to the 102A3 or 102B3. In my opinion, MCI's BIG folly was allowing themselves to be purchased by Dina and then the 102EL3 Renaissance in 1996. When MCIs started NOT looking like MCIs, they started going downhill.

102C3's, 102DL3's, and 102D3's do look solid to me, I don't really see why the original A-B-C-D they would be worse than a MC-9.

102C3: http://www.transithub.net/gloc/gloc852.jpg.

102DL3: http://www.kevinsbusrail.com/greyhound/d/gry_984-2.jpg.

102D3: http://www.transithub.net/gloc/gloc973.jpg.

102EL3: http://www.cptdb.ca/wiki/images/2/2b/Greyhound_Canada_1091-a.jpg.

 

[rickycourtney]

On vacation in Chicago this weekend. Spotted a unrebuilt 102DL3 still in the white elevate everything livery. Also saw a charter 102DL3 in the blue livery with just one icon on the door.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

What Greyhound needs is a fleet awash with three pointed stars. It would attract passengers by the train load.

 

[railiner]

Yeah.....I would join them as long, that is, that they were charging Greyhound fares to be chauffered in S550's.....

 

[Green Maned Lion]

I'm serious. Imagine the ad campaign- Cross the country in Mercedes style and so on.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

On vacation in Chicago this weekend. Spotted a unrebuilt 102DL3 still in the white elevate everything livery. Also saw a charter 102DL3 in the blue livery with just one icon on the door.

You mean like this: https://www.flickr.com/photos/mbernero/13205424073/sizes/l?

Or this: https://www.flickr.com/photos/mbernero/13552785725/sizes/l?

Apparently it only has Wi-Fi but no power outlets or extra legroom. So I'm guessing it's not rebuilt, just repainted and had a Wi-Fi router added.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Three pointed stars that will burn at Pittsburgh on the New York-Los Angeles run.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

I found a series of Trailways promo vids: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGOmxz_gXyk.

Also someone who seems to like the D4505 too much: http://www.trivalleycentral.com/opinion/columns/autocouple-he-says-greyhounds-race-to-comfort-forefront/article_69915c54-c4f5-11e3-a51d-0019bb2963f4.html.

And this had a segment praising the D4505 too: http://www.curbsideclassic.com/auto-biography/our-new-future-cc-2013-acura-tsx-sport-wagon-not-an-impulse-buy-for-a-change-but-an-impulsive-1000-mile-29-hour-trip-to-bring-it-home/.

 

[railiner]

I found a series of Trailways promo vids: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGOmxz_gXyk.

Also someone who seems to like the D4505 too much: http://www.trivalleycentral.com/opinion/columns/autocouple-he-says-greyhounds-race-to-comfort-forefront/article_69915c54-c4f5-11e3-a51d-0019bb2963f4.html.

And this had a segment praising the D4505 too: http://www.curbsideclassic.com/auto-biography/our-new-future-cc-2013-acura-tsx-sport-wagon-not-an-impulse-buy-for-a-change-but-an-impulsive-1000-mile-29-hour-trip-to-bring-it-home/.

Thanks for those links...especially the first one...I had not seen it before, or even knew of it. I'll have to speak to the driver (Mark), about it when I see him. It seems that our company was not involved in the production as much as Martz and Greyhound, and the Trailways Association office was...

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

I found a series of Trailways promo vids: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGOmxz_gXyk.

Also someone who seems to like the D4505 too much: http://www.trivalleycentral.com/opinion/columns/autocouple-he-says-greyhounds-race-to-comfort-forefront/article_69915c54-c4f5-11e3-a51d-0019bb2963f4.html.

And this had a segment praising the D4505 too: http://www.curbsideclassic.com/auto-biography/our-new-future-cc-2013-acura-tsx-sport-wagon-not-an-impulse-buy-for-a-change-but-an-impulsive-1000-mile-29-hour-trip-to-bring-it-home/.

Thanks for those links...especially the first one...I had not seen it before, or even knew of it. I'll have to speak to the driver (Mark), about it when I see him. It seems that our company was not involved in the production as much as Martz and Greyhound, and the Trailways Association office was...

Hey, the bus says Pine Hill Trailways, not Adirondack Trailways. I don't know what happened there. It's a J4500 with National Seating. Yeah, now I understand when drivers complain about the "tall pillar" dashboard.

By the way, the last bus, overnight Richmond-Nashville, was a Richmond-Dallas X3-45. So there's definitely some X3-45's based in Dallas in addition to the Northeast. Tons of spottings from that area.

 

[railiner]

Mark is an Adirondack driver, using a Pine Hill bus on an Adirondack run (number 121). He is on the return trip to NYC from Oneonta, in that video.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Mark is an Adirondack driver, using a Pine Hill bus on an Adirondack run (number 121). He is on the return trip to NYC from Oneonta, in that video.

I thought Oneonta-New York was a Pine Hill route. But I found out that 121 is a local via Grand Gorge and Kingston. So, what's 121B? Says there's a connection at Kingston?