Greyhound seats and fleet questions

[Swadian Hardcore]

There's also a new 747-8F in the Seahawks livery, but it's a freighter: http://seattletimes.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/today/files/2014/01/hawk_jet_002.jpg.

But it looks like the Patriots won this time. I'm not big on football so I didn't take a side.

How's MTR Western? It seems like they have some "VIP" Van Hools in addition to the Prevosts.

Also, if you know NorthWest POINT running Portland-Astoria, their XL-IIs are unfortunately equipped with painful American Seating: https://www.flickr.com/photos/busdudedotcom/12245879934/sizes/l.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Looks like someone rode a Greyhound Canada DL3 out of Portland: https://www.flickr.com/photos/86539314@N07/16437129741/sizes/l.

He says it's in the Columbia River Gorge and the seat have adjustable headrests. Furthermore, the windows have shades!

Here's another shot, where you can see the enclosed parcel racks: https://www.flickr.com/photos/86539314@N07/16251489670/sizes/l.

Edit: Also of interest, he says the G4500s are "remanufactured": https://www.flickr.com/photos/46147727@N03/15784799864/in/pool-2729130@N24/.

And a shot of an air bellow: https://www.flickr.com/photos/46147727@N03/16251488897/.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Here's a GLC white D4505 (#1301) with most decals removed: https://www.flickr.com/photos/busfreak2013/15831809453/sizes/l.

I'm not sure if it's being prepared for a repainting or for sale. #1301 is ex-Hotard and has no wheelchair lift. I believe these ex-Hotard D4505s are only used in Eastern Canada.

 

[rickycourtney]

What's your opinion of window shades? I like them in theory but the windows are so big on buses and trains that they end up being somewhat clumsy. On most buses the first "setting" blocks half of the window and the shade is so big you block the view for several rows of seats. Plus having the shades down ruins the panoramic view that many passengers enjoy.

Of course, they're great when the sun is low and shining right into the bus!

 

[railiner]

Back in the "old days", when the likes of GM "Silversides" and ACF-Brill's ruled the bus roads, the windows on long-distance coaches were individually sized for each row of seats. Back then, when you lowered the shades to suit, you only affected your row.

With the early-fifties introduction of the PD-4104 and their large "picture windows", that revolutionized the design of all future coaches. The window shades were gone, and instead, they incorporated a deeply green gradated and tinted side and rear window, that now spanned two and a half rows. The tinted windows were a compromise...they provided some glare protection, but also obscured the view at times as well.

The more modern type shades that were introduced as an option on MCI 'ABC' Series coaches, tried to solve the problem by incorporating another compromise....the mesh design that would cut some glare, but not completely obscure the view.

In my opinion, those should not be used on primarily line-haul buses, but limited to those that are used on charter's and tour's, where there is affinity among the passengers...

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

IMO, it's a double-edged sword. You can block glare but it also blocks viewing out the entire window. Plus, because Greyhound runs with interior lights off at all times, sunlight is often the sole source of lighting inside the motorcoach, and the shades compromise that. And because the shades need maintenance, I don't think such a double-edged sword would be worth it.

The shades on Orange Belt #256 were broken and caused nothing but trouble and made that vehicle look very shabby inside along with the broken seats and useless lavatory sink that was not stocked with water.

With the advent of personal sun shades and winged headrests, I'd say it would be better not to have them. I'm fully against curtains, even though they can be more adjustable than the shades, because they get dirty and/or damaged easily and can get coated with germs. Someone falling asleep and leaning against one could get ill. They're also easy to vandalize.

 

[railiner]

Good points!

Maybe I'm nostalgic, but I think those old Silversides with their small windows, but otherwise truly 'long-distance' coach design, were a whole lot more comfortable for long trips, than the newest coaches. They did not ride as well, and did not have some of the frills that the new ones have, but they sure had comfortable seats--they reclined waaay back, and had ample legroom....especially the PD-3751. And they had other things going for them...like Gordon's Pillow Service renting you a clean fresh pillow for overnite runs for a quarter.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Speaking of seating, American Seating has responded to the competition and introduced their new Wayfarer seating, with a notable feature being the option seatback PTV: http://www.americanseating.com/transportation/uploads/tools-resources/T-WAY-2014_FINAL.pdf.

It looks like these seats may replace the Premier LS.

Also, this bus salesman says that Prevost makes their own seats: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qna9qrV8_go. (the part about seating start at about 3:30)

 

[rickycourtney]

Good lord... that is an UGLY seat. They look like a lousy rip-off of Setra's seats.

I like the idea of the USB charging ports... but the placement is awkward. If the tray table is up... it's blocked and it would be better at lap level (where most people hold their phones).

If that black boomerang shaped object is the PTV... it's small (and has a weird shape). Plus as we've as discussed before PTV's are on the way out.

I'd ask if you think these seats are comfortable... but they're from American Seating... so we know they aren't.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

At this point, all I care about is that Greyhound orders comfortable seating next time, because, for the past 5 years, Greyhound has been ordering Painful Premiers. But since this is American Seating, I'm almost certain it'll just be another uncomfortable POS. I know that transit agencies are restricted by Buy America, so maybe they would consider ordering this seat because the 2095 is on the way out. It does look like a transit seat.

Greyhound should still order Amaya, National, Kiel, or even FAINSA seating next time, though I believe FAINSA is on the way out as well because I haven't seen any new buses with Fainsas. Multina is also dead, I believe. They were offered on a Prevost brochure, but not anymore. Multina made the Acela Express seats.

 

[rickycourtney]

Sound Transit's DE60LFR commuter buses have Patriot PT seats from Amaya, although they may have been sold under a different name by 4ONE or Freedman Seating. No matter who sold them, my point is that Amaya seats can be specified on a Buy America compliant coach.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Would it be possible that they ordered a Buy America vehicle without Buy America seating, then purchased the seats with non-federal funding?

Anyways, I did see that NJT ordered a D4500CT CNG with Amaya A2-TEN.

I'm not sure who would buy the Wayfarer nor do I have any idea what Greyhound may buy next. Rumors are on the National 4210, but the version of the 4210 is unclear. Greyhound Canada reportedly used either 4209 or 4210 (with winged headrests) from their 102C3 order in 1989 until their 102DL3 order in 1999. Then they started ordering FAINSA Brasil VIPs, which appears to be the same as the Amaya Torino VIP except with the FAINSA label.

The seat business must be extremely confusing right now with new regulations and lots of seats being sold by middlemen under the same or different names.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Check out the new ROItit review of the motorcoaches: http://roitit.com/.

Prevost's H3-45 took the lead with best ROI, followed by MCI's J4500, while Van Hool slacked behind. I'd say that's an accurate overview of the private sector motorcoach industry so far, though I was surprised at the high price of the Van Hool. It appears they didn't consider the D4505 or X3-45, presumably because the D4505 sucks and has near-zero sales and the X3-45 is pretty much just for Greyhound and commuter agencies.

Greyhound recently took delivery of another small batch of X3-45s for Americanos, presumably to replace the Americanos-livery G4500s, these should be painted in the Greyhound livery since Americanos has been disbanded. Americanos still has an alarming amount of White G4500s that I saw on my California trip in December.

Also, check out Intercar's new black J4500: https://www.flickr.com/photos/gerrysmotorcoachgallery/8731206391/sizes/h/.

And they also have a different new livery: https://www.flickr.com/photos/gerrysmotorcoachgallery/8731205567/sizes/h/.

Which livery do you think is better? Or is Intercar's old livery better? They run Northeastern Quebec line-haul routes.

 

[rickycourtney]

That's a very interesting review. Unlike most of the trade magazines they aren't kissing up to the companies.

I think this summary is perfect:

Prevost - "...most definitely deserves 2014 Motorcoach of the Year award. In nearly every category they put forth a great effort and the quality of their coaches seems to equate to a coach that holds its values better over time and miles."

MCI - "seemingly wins the sales numbers games and in a way that helps and hurts them at the same time."

Van Hool – "Not necessarily a bad coach but company business practices call into question an overall commitment to openness and a client centered approach."

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Agreed, I believe KPS ownership has hurt MCI while Volvo ownership has helped Prevost. It seems obvious that MCI alienated traditional customers like Greyhound to grab new customers like NJT, which could have made more short-term profits but pummeled their reputation after losing Greyhound as a customer for the D4505. Typical investment banking ownership, as said on GTE.

I was surprised at the high prices listed for the Van Hools. They even said the prices were for the C2045, not the new TX45 or CX45.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Saw this posted on GTE: http://www.utahrails.net/buses/GM-PDPARLOR.htm.

GM Parlor Coach production lists.

 

[railiner]

Saw this posted on GTE: http://www.utahrails.net/buses/GM-PDPARLOR.htm.

GM Parlor Coach production lists.

Very nice. But they left off the H8H649 ( the final 233 version's of the P8M-4905A built in 1979 and 1980), which was the end of GMC parlor coach production.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Americanos got 20 more X3-45s. #60401-60420, I expect them to be based out of Los Angeles or El Paso. Hopefully the Americanos G4500s can finally be scrapped. Perhaps they'll start mixing X3-45s into the D4505s over here.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Someone else is complaining about #86352: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=952410048105557&set=o.117755058267776&type=3&theater.

Yeah, Greyhound better get that bus fixed up. Looks like Greyhound has continued to procrastinate and defer maintenance on #86352 even though it was already a hellhole on wheels back in December 2014.

It appears evident that both the 86300s and 86500s are now turning into hellholes. Hundreds of passengers will get sick very soon unless Greyhound does something. I don't know what they could do that isn't too drastic. Also, Greyhound's BoltBus drivers are complaining about wages.

The rumor mill continues to turn, but I won't post those crazy (very crazy) rumors going around.

 

[rickycourtney]

Dish! I want to hear the crazy rumors churning through the rumor mill.

Is greyhound going to buy electric trolleybuses and electrify our nations highways? That would be a crazy rumor.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Naw, but one rumor was that Greyhound Express will be discontinued. Another one is that Greyhound will buy Caio buses. Another one is that Greyhound will buy double-decker Van Hools. Another one is that Greyhound is trying to start an airline and ditch the bus lines. Another one is that Greyhound is getting rid of BoltBus.

Not as crazy as electric trolleybuses, but making no sense at all anyway.

 

[railiner]

In the crazy rumor department.....

Megabuses next purchase? http://forum.bustalk.info/files/16170343350_c6fe18bd40_z_588.jpg

:wacko:

 

[Caesar La Rock]

I saw a blue G4500 in darkness, while I was on a Gillig BRT speeding down I-4. It was exiting right and I assume was heading to the Greyhound terminal in Orlando.

 

[rickycourtney]

Naw, but one rumor was that Greyhound Express will be discontinued. Another one is that Greyhound will buy Caio buses. Another one is that Greyhound will buy double-decker Van Hools. Another one is that Greyhound is trying to start an airline and ditch the bus lines. Another one is that Greyhound is getting rid of BoltBus.

Not as crazy as electric trolleybuses, but making no sense at all anyway.

I can't imagine a scenario where Greyhound would eliminate express routes. They seem to be extremely popular with passengers and helping the company appeal to a type of passenger who wouldn't normally take a bus. Getting rid of those routes would be crazy.
That being said I've long expected that eventually Greyhound would unify the BoltBus and Greyhound Express brands. So that's not that crazy.

Greyhound tried running an airline in Canada for a while and failed miserably. They'd be crazy to try again.

I actually don't think the bus rumors are crazy at all. Considering the poor quality of MCI's equipment lately... every manufacturer should be considered. Also while they have considerable drawbacks... it would be smart for Greyhound to consider double decker buses. They allow 1 driver (the most expensive part of running a bus) to carry 70-80 passengers.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

OK, some of those rumors are not so crazy, but when I said "getting rid of BoltBus", the rumor is that Greyhound will DISCONTINUE BoltBus! The rumor is that Greyhound will kill Greyhound Express and another rumor followed up that they would kill BoltBus when they kill Greyhound Express.

A more realistic person then said that Greyhound might get rid of the "Express" brand but would not actually kill the service.

As for the Megabus rumor on double-decker artics, it's not that surprising when you compare it to the idea of Greyhound dumping Express and BoltBus. I guess I shouldn't be surprised if Greyhound orders from another manufacturer next time considering the myriad of problems popping up with the D4505 then disappearing again.

Hey CJ, drivers are rooting for the Blue G4500 now and say that they are better than the D4505, which I would agree with due to the D4505's terrible inconsistency. The White G4500 sucks, of course. Are those J4500s with Lynx yet?