Greyhound seats and fleet questions

[Swadian Hardcore]

The 2095 is pretty much doomed due to regulations. As for the Premier, I see no reason why any operator should buy it anymore. Its safety has been matched by competitors. Its comfort is terrible. It also falls apart after being broken in. Only getting a good deal upfront would make it viable, but I doubt that would even happen due to Amaya's cheap labor.

I'll take your word on the Kiel Seating. I'm guessing it's not too bad, but not great either, at least compared to Amaya and National.

As for NJT getting around regulations, I too don't believe it will happen easily, but if it does happen, then I'm guessing they'll have used connections in the government.

My logic is that if NJT orders a ton of MCIs again, MCI will continue to make disappointing products that Greyhound won't buy. So Greyhound will be forced onto Prevost, unless they want to buy Van Hools. In that case, none of the manufacturers would aggressively improve their products because every one of them would have a big stable customer and a bunch of smaller customers (Van Hool has Megabus).

Whereas if NJT orders from Prevost, MCI would lose their largest customer and would try to get both Greyhound and NJT back by improving products. It won't be the end of MCI but they would be forced to either improve the D4500 or make a line-haul J4500 variant.

 

[rickycourtney]

On a somewhat unrelated note, I was on a newer Sound Transit D60LFR today that was equipped with American Seating's Model 2003 seats. What a strange design. It's got a more comfortable seat cushion than the 2095 seats on the older buses, but the backs are shorter (a lot shorter than on the Patriot) and they taper at the top. It seems like a seat that would only work on a suburban bus, where you want to be able to see what's going on around you and you aren't riding for a long time.

Frankly I wish Sound Transit would have stuck with the Patriot, it's by far the most comfortable and user friendly seat.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

The 2003 is also used on Vancouver's suburban Orion Vs. At least one of Greyhound's second-hand J4500s has them. I found this video of a fight on a Greyhound J4500, check out the hilarious comments: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EN81Yon2VT0.

That bus was on a LD run, must not be that great with 2003s and a drunk dude stirring up excrement.

 

[Caesar La Rock]

A friend of mine saw an old MC-12 being used by a Church. It was located near Universal Studios in Orlando.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Check out this all-black GLC D4505: https://www.flickr.com/photos/gerarddonnelly/18939465949/.

That one (#1331) is an ex-Hotard unit. Frankly, I don't dig the look. It also lacks a wheelchair lift. What were they thinking ordering D4505s in 2006 without wheelchair lifts?

 

[mightyjoe1201]

When if at all did Canada start requiring lifts on coaches? If it wasn't required yet why spend the extra money

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Yeah, it's not required, but sooner or later, it'll be required. Besides, Hotard was based in the USA.

Hey, I found Greyhound's garage in Sacramento. It's at 1874 South River Road.

 

[mightyjoe1201]

From the pic, it looked like the bus was registered in Canada. It doesn't make good business sense to order something that expensive unless absolutely necessary. I don't know if you ever owned your own business but I have and you don't buy something if it's not an absolute must. Even if others think it would be beneficial.

 

[Caesar La Rock]

Check out this all-black GLC D4505: https://www.flickr.com/photos/gerarddonnelly/18939465949/.

That one (#1331) is an ex-Hotard unit. Frankly, I don't dig the look. It also lacks a wheelchair lift. What were they thinking ordering D4505s in 2006 without wheelchair lifts?

I've seen Hotard's newer coaches without wheelchair lifts. Earlier this year, I saw a fairly new Van Hool and MCI J4500, both without lifts. I think the requirement is lifts don't have to be on buses that aren't doing long runs or anything like that.

That explains why I've seen 20-30+ year old coaches down here without lifts (not all the time, some do it anyway). Greyhound should avoid purchasing buses from companies that don't have accessible buses.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

The ADA rule is that all buses in scheduled must have wheelchair lifts. But ADA doesn't apply in Canada, so Greyhound sent all their buses without lifts to Canada, except for a few charter-only buses. Buses that are not doing scheduled service don't need lifts no matter what distance they run.

Joe, I know what you mean about the cost of purchasing lifts, but this was an ex-Hotard bus, not a Greyhound original.

 

[Caesar La Rock]

The ADA rule is that all buses in scheduled must have wheelchair lifts. But ADA doesn't apply in Canada, so Greyhound sent all their buses without lifts to Canada, except for a few charter-only buses. Buses that are not doing scheduled service don't need lifts no matter what distance they run.

Joe, I know what you mean about the cost of purchasing lifts, but this was an ex-Hotard bus, not a Greyhound original.

That explains everything. Greyhound should avoid purchasing second hand buses with no lifts, unless there is nothing else available.

 

[rickycourtney]

That explains everything. Greyhound should avoid purchasing second hand buses with no lifts, unless there is nothing else available.

Well in the US... they have no choice. Every bus in Greyhound's fleet must be wheelchair equipped with the exception of buses used exclusively in tours & charters service. I don't honestly see Greyhound buying a new bus or even buying a used bus just to put it in tours & charters service.

 

[Caesar La Rock]

That explains everything. Greyhound should avoid purchasing second hand buses with no lifts, unless there is nothing else available.

Well in the US... they have no choice. Every bus in Greyhound's fleet must be wheelchair equipped with the exception of buses used exclusively in tours & charters service. I don't honestly see Greyhound buying a new bus or even buying a used bus just to put it in tours & charters service.

A number of Setras owned by Greyhound do tours and shuttle runs down here. I don't know their origin, but I'll ask. I think they're newer buses.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Greyhound has 5 Setras, #86800-86804. All are 2013 model years. The VINs are WKKA40PH0D3050059-WKKA40PH6D3050063.

Their wheelbase is quite short, and they are designed for maneuverability. Thus, they are unsuited for North American intercity operations. In Germany, they are used for charters and tours.

 

[Caesar La Rock]

Greyhound has 5 Setras, #86800-86804. All are 2013 model years. The VINs are WKKA40PH0D3050059-WKKA40PH6D3050063.

Their wheelbase is quite short, and they are designed for maneuverability. Thus, they are unsuited for North American intercity operations. In Germany, they are used for charters and tours.

Those could be the ones my friend has been seeing. Not sure, but I'm awaiting his word on it. Setras do okay down here for charter companies. I don't know their ride quality or how they drive. I'm also curious about Volvo 9700s.

 

[CCC1007]

I am considering starting a bus line here in Montana that would have one way runs of 50-350 miles. What bus and seats would you suggest for these over the road routes?

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

I'm sorry, but that seems like a serious discussion. I'll send you a PM.

 

[rickycourtney]

I am considering starting a bus line here in Montana that would have one way runs of 50-350 miles. What bus and seats would you suggest for these over the road routes?

A lot of this is highly subjective... so I would suggest riding a lot of buses to see what you like yourself. Are you trying to target everyone or a more "high end" customer?
My general suggestion would be to buy the Prevost X3-45 or H3-45 and equip it with either Amaya seats (either A-2TEN, Torino Stardard or better) and spring for the center armrests and leather seat covers since they're easier to keep clean (even if it's a faux leather like Greyhound). I would also go the same route as Greyhound and try to do 50 seats (as opposed to the normal 55) so that you give customers more legroom and you eliminate the middle seat at the back, but I understand that might not be financially viable. As far as the buses go... I would make sure you have power outlets (I argue that power is more important than WiFi) and I would spring for the enclosed parcel racks (just because it looks cleaner and less cluttered).

I'd be curious to hear more about your bus line... and what you end up going with.

 

[CCC1007]

Thanks, at minimum I am 2 years away from the start of service on the first route, but au is one of the first places that it will be announced on. Maybe with something special for forum members only...

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

What the heck is Greyhound #207? It's currently westbound on 1337 Denver-Portland. Nothing on the roster.

 

[mightyjoe1201]

I saw that a few days ago myself. I thought I was seeing things.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

I saw on Facebook that Greyhound Los Angeles has 21 buses down for maintenance. That's a lot of buses out of action! They ran out of buses and deployed BoltBus units on short runs, while severely delaying other runs by up to 6 hours. It appears that the D4505 has been a major maintenance debacle, since Los Angeles Div depends on that model.

 

[Caesar La Rock]

I saw on Facebook that Greyhound Los Angeles has 21 buses down for maintenance. That's a lot of buses out of action! They ran out of buses and deployed BoltBus units on short runs, while severely delaying other runs by up to 6 hours. It appears that the D4505 has been a major maintenance debacle, since Los Angeles Div depends on that model.

If they don't work out those issues with the D4505s, they might want to invest in another bus that's reliable.

 

[mightyjoe1201]

Sounds like it's time for greyhound to look into other manufacturers and retire their fleet of D4505. I'm not a fan of prevost but that May be the way to go for them.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Looks like the D4505 has replaced the G4500 as Greyhound's lemon. The D4505s that were running Reno-Salt Lake City have been replaced by 102DL3s, and X3-45 #86251 ended up on yesterday's 1314 to Denver. Meanwhile, Blue G's and DL3s have taken over Denver-Portland.

Seems like Greyhound is restricting their D4505s to Los Angeles in an attempt to ease maintenance with the exception of state-owned D4505s. The Utah-owned ones are still running Reno-Denver.

I don't think Greyhound will retire their D4505s anytime soon because they are new and Greyhound's out of cash to buy replacements. But the rapid deterioration of these at-most-5-year-old buses is obvious to me and many others. Not only that, but they are also the least fuel-efficient Greyhounds and have terribly painful seats despite ample legroom on some rows.

Today's 1308 to Salt Lake City is #6339. I'm not sure if that was the bus that came from SLC yesterday. Wonder what today's 1314 will be.