Ground Transport in the Pacific Northwest

[Willbridge]

Here's a look at PDX>SEA and PDX>SPK for Sunday, December 11. Gas prices are easing and we're in the low gap between Thanksgiving and Christmas. Nevertheless, trains are selling out.

Here's the PDX to SEA line-up as of Wednesday night:
0800 FB $29
0820 AT $66/SO
1020 FB $39
1045 GL $26
1200 AT SO/SO
1230 FB $31
1500 FB $31
1556 AT SO/$87/$206
1845 FB $31
1925 AT $59/$87
2320 GL $26

And here's PDX to SPK:
0800 FB $52 via Seattle
0820 AT SO/SO/SO chng at Seattle
1645 AT $58/--/$183

AT = Amtrak Coach/Business/Sleeper, FB = Flixbus includes service charge rounded, GL = Greyhound Lines.
SO = Sold Out.

Note: There is no through PDX<>VAC train as of yet. The 0820, 1200, and 1556 train departures from PDX enjoy bus connections in SEA to VAC.

Note: Greyhound Lines discontinued PDX<>SPK connections in Nov 2022. Travel on GL requires an overnight layover in Pasco or Seattle.

 

[Willbridge]

Here's a look at PDX>SEA and PDX>SPK for Sunday, January 29th. We're entering the really low gap called February. Nevertheless, trains are selling out.

Here's the PDX to SEA line-up as of Wednesday night:
0800 FB $29
0820 AT $66/SO
1020 FB $29
1045 GL $27
1200 AT SO/SO
1230 FB $29
1500 FB $34
1556 AT SO/--/$206
1845 FB $34
1925 AT $66/SO
2320 GL Discontinued!

And here's PDX to SPK:
0800 FB $61 via Seattle
0950 GL $51 chng at Pasco
0820 AT $193/--/$249 chng at Seattle
1645 AT $58/--/$183

AT = Amtrak Coach/Business/Sleeper, FB = Flixbus includes service charge rounded, GL = Greyhound Lines.
SO = Sold Out.

Note: There is no through PDX<>VAC train as of yet. The 0820, 1200, and 1556 train departures from PDX enjoy bus connections in SEA to VAC.

 

[Willbridge]

Here's a look at PDX>SEA and PDX>SPK for Sunday, February 5th. We're in the really low gap called February. Nevertheless, some trains are selling out. Bus lines have dropped to the minimum for Sundays, but bus customers tend to show up closer to departure.

Here's the PDX to SEA line-up as of Wednesday night:
0800 FB $36
0820 AT $47/$87
1020 FB $36
1045 GL $31
1200 AT SO/SO
1230 FB $36
1500 FB $36
1556 AT SO/--/$206
1845 FB $36
1925 AT $53/SO

And here's PDX to SPK:
0800 FB $56 via Seattle
0820 AT $105/$145/$270 chng at Seattle
0950 GL $51 chng at Pasco
1645 AT $58/--/$183

AT = Amtrak Coach/Business/Sleeper, FB = Flixbus includes service charge rounded, GL = Greyhound Lines.
SO = Sold Out.

Note: There is no through PDX<>VAC train as of yet, planned for March. The 0820, 1200, and 1556 train departures from PDX enjoy bus connections in SEA to VAC.

 

[Willbridge]

Here's a look at PDX>SEA and PDX>SPK for Sunday, February 12th. We're in the really low gap called February. Nevertheless, some trains are selling out. Bus lines dropped to the minimum for Sunday the 5th but are creeping up for this coming the 12th.

Here's the PDX to SEA line-up as of Wednesday night:
0800 FB $46
0820 AT $66/$87
1020 FB $41
1045 GL $27
1200 AT SO/SO
1230 FB $36
1500 FB $46
1556 AT SO/--/$206
1845 FB $41
1925 AT $66/$87

And here's PDX to SPK:
0800 FB $61 via Seattle
0820 AT $193/$145/$270 chng at Seattle
(Yes, Business on this day is less than Coach. It's actually only BC for PDX>SEA.)
0950 GL $51 chng at Pasco
1645 AT $58/--/$183
AT = Amtrak Coach/Business/Sleeper, FB = Flixbus includes service charge rounded,
GL = Greyhound Lines.
SO = Sold Out.

Note: There is no through PDX<>VAC train as of yet; it's planned for March. The 0820, 1200, and 1556 train departures from PDX enjoy bus connections in SEA to VAC.

 

[Willbridge]

Here's a look at PDX>SEA and PDX>SPK for Sunday, February 26th. We're coming out of the low gap called February. Nevertheless, some trains are selling out. Bus lines seem to have survived the February 22nd merger of Flixbus and Greyhound Lines reservation systems..

Here's the PDX to SEA line-up as of Wednesday night:
0800 FB $31
0820 AT SO/SO
1020 FB $41
1045 GL $31
1200 AT SO/SO
1230 FB $56
1500 FB $41
1556 AT SO/--/$372
1845 FB $31
1925 AT SO/SO

And here's PDX to SPK:
0800 FB $87 via Seattle
0820 AT SO/SO/SO chng at Seattle
0950 GL $59 chng at Pasco
1645 AT $58/--/$224

AT = Amtrak Coach/Business/Sleeper, FB = Flixbus includes service charge rounded,
GL = Greyhound Lines includes service charge rounded.
SO = Sold Out.

Note: There is no through PDX<>VAC train as of yet; it's planned for March. The 0820, 1200, and 1556 train departures from PDX enjoy bus connections in SEA to VAC.

 

[Willbridge]

The business class will always have an extremely limited set of seats until they stop running the Horizons. There are only 16 business class seats per train, and unlike coaches, more business class seats can't really be added easily.

As demonstrated by checking on Wednesday night for Sunday, March 12th. The new train and additional coaches appear to have loosened things up a bit, but BC is still tough.

Here's the PDX to SEA line-up as of Wednesday night:
0800 FB $41
0820 AT $47/SO
1020 FB $46
1145 GL $41 (Time adjust for DST - trip overnight from SAC)
1200 AT $66/SO
1230 FB $51
1500 FB $51
1505 AT $59/$87
1656 AT $66/--/$206 (Time adjust for DST - trip overnight from LAX)
1845 FB $46
1925 AT $42/$80
2250 GL $36 (2nd SAC<>SEA trip restored)

And here's PDX to SPK:
0800 FB $56 via Seattle
0820 AT $193/SO/$230 chng at Seattle
0950 GL $71 chng at Pasco
1645 AT $58/--/$183

Flix @ 1230 and 1500 through to VAC. Amtrak @ 1505 through to VAC.

AT = Amtrak Coach/Business/Sleeper, FB = Flixbus includes service charge rounded,
GL = Greyhound Lines includes service charge rounded.
SO = Sold Out.

 

[Willbridge]

Spring break and religious holidays traffic fills up all the "new" capacity for Sunday, March 26th:

Here's the PDX to SEA line-up as of Wednesday night:
0800 FB $69
0820 AT SO/SO
1020 FB $69
1045 GL $54
1200 AT SO/SO
1230 FB $69
1500 FB $59
1505 AT SO/SO
1556 AT SO/--/$206
1845 FB $44
1925 AT $66/$87
2250 GL $39

And here's PDX to SPK:
0800 FB $107 via Seattle
0820 AT SO/SO/SO chng at Seattle
0950 GL $73 chng at Pasco
1645 AT $76/--/$395

Amtrak @ 1505 through to VAC. As of Wednesday night, the only through bus PDX>VAC with space available was the 1500 Flix trip.

AT = Amtrak Coach/Business/Sleeper, FB = Flixbus includes service charge rounded,
GL = Greyhound Lines includes service charge rounded.
SO = Sold Out.

 

[Willbridge]

Spring break and most religious holidays are over, but Amtrak space is still tight for Sunday, April 23rd:

Here's the PDX to SEA line-up as of Wednesday night:
0800 FB $29
0820 AT $66/SO
1020 FB $29
1045 GL $34
1200 AT SO/SO
1230 FB $29
1500 FB $44
1505 AT SO/SO
1556 AT SO/--/$206
1845 FB $49
1925 AT $59/SO
2250 GL $34

And here's PDX to SPK:
0800 FB $81 via Seattle
0820 AT $212/SO/$281 chng at Seattle
0950 GL $73 chng at Pasco
1645 AT $50/--/$202

As of Wednesday night, the only Amtrak itinerary PDX>VAC with space available was the 0820 rail/bus trip.

AT = Amtrak Coach/Business/Sleeper, FB = Flixbus includes service charge rounded,
GL = Greyhound Lines includes service charge rounded.
SO = Sold Out.

 

[Willbridge]

Sunday, April 30th - space for Business Class still not adequate.

Here's the PDX to SEA line-up as of Wednesday night:
0800 FB $39
0820 AT $37/$87
1020 FB $29
1045 GL $29
1200 AT $66/SO
1230 FB $29
1500 FB $29
1505 AT $66/SO
1556 AT SO/--/$224
1845 FB $29
1925 AT $59/$80
2325 GL $29

And here's PDX to SPK:
0800 FB $61 via Seattle
0820 AT $105/SO/$297 chng at Seattle
0950 GL $73 chng at Pasco
1645 AT $50/--/$227

As a bonus, here's CTL to SPK:
0135 GL $79 chng at Seattle
0952 AT $94/$121/$248 chng at Seattle
1143 AT $97/--/$398 chng at Portland
1308 AT $101/$103/$280 chng at Portland

AT = Amtrak Coach/Business/Sleeper, FB = Flixbus includes service charge rounded,
GL = Greyhound Lines includes service charge rounded.
SO = Sold Out.

 

[flitcraft]

Sunday, April 30th - space for Business Class still not adequate. [sad details snipped]

Thanks for laying that all out; much appreciated. I do wish they had allowed the Talgos to stay in service till they have enough equipment to carry out a reasonable schedule and capacity for the Cascades. I miss them as a practical option...

 

[zephyr17]

Thanks for laying that all out; much appreciated. I do wish they had allowed the Talgos to stay in service till they have enough equipment to carry out a reasonable schedule and capacity for the Cascades. I miss them as a practical option...

When the schedule was cut back to a single SEA-EUG round trip shortly after the beginning COVID, Washington DOT seized it as an opportunity to retire their Series 6 Talgos that were no longer necessary to support that reduced schedule. Before COVID hit, Washington DOT had widely publicized their intention to retire the Series 6 in line with NTSB recommendations stemming from their investigation of the Nisqually wreck. However, the relationship between Washington DOT and Talgo had soured long before, largely over the cost of the maintenance contract that the Talgo company required. Note that Washington DOT refused to even consider Talgo in choosing a vendor for a new Cascades fleet, despite the fact that Series 8 was fully FRA compliant. Also, Washington DOT, along with Sound Transit and Amtrak, were severely criticized by the NTSB in that report for "lack of a safety culture", so in addition to already soured relationship, Washington DOT had motivation to deflect attention from that aspect of the report as well as showing they were responding to its recommendations.

However, Washington DOT almost certainly would not have cut the schedule simply in order to retire the Talgos before replacements were acquired. The severe drop in ridership that resulted from COVID caused them to cut the schedule dramatically for financial reasons. Washington was not alone in this, most states supporting rail service chose to significantly cut back on it in response to COVID. But it gave them the opportunity to rid themselves of the Talgos earlier than they otherwise would have, in line with the old saying, "Never let a crisis go to waste". Note that there was nothing stealth about the Series 6 retirements, Washington DOT in fact crowed that they had compiled with the NTSB recommendations.

It took 3 years for Washington DOT to fully restore the pre-COVID schedule and lack of equipment was a major factor in its taking so long, as well as in the lower capacity on the restored services. It does not appear that Washington DOT foresaw that Amtrak providing replacement equipment might be a problem in restoring services with the Series 6s no longer available. However, Amtrak's lack of available equipment was also at least in part due to Amtrak's own missteps in response to COVID.

 

[Willbridge]

Sunday, May 7th - space for Business Class still not adequate.

Here's the PDX to SEA line-up as of Wednesday night:
0800 FB $29
0820 AT $66/SO
1020 FB $29
1045 GL $29
1200 AT $66/SO
1230 FB $34
1500 FB $34
1505 AT SO/SO
1556 AT SO/--/$206
1845 FB $29
1925 AT $59/SO
2325 GL $29

And here's PDX to SPK:
0800 FB $52 via Seattle
0820 AT $212/SO/$266 chng at Seattle
0950 GL $?? chng at Pasco moved to Hermiston, not showing in sales website
1645 AT $40/--/$339
2325 GL $59 chng at Seattle with a horrible layover

As a bonus, here's CTL to SPK:
0135 GL $?? chng at Seattle with a horrible layover
0952 AT $94/$121/$248 chng at Seattle
1143 AT $97/--/$398 chng at Portland
1308 AT $101/$103/$280 chng at Portland

AT = Amtrak Coach/Business/Sleeper, FB = Flixbus includes service charge rounded,
GL = Greyhound Lines includes service charge rounded.
SO = Sold Out.

 

[Willbridge]

Sunday, May 21st - space for Business Class still not adequate. Some choice for coach travel and passengers are not being pushed onto the bus lines.

Here's the PDX to SEA line-up as of Wednesday night:
0800 FB $29
0820 AT $59/$87
0925 GL $29
1020 FB $29
1200 AT $66/SO
1230 FB $29
1500 FB $29
1505 AT SO/SO
1556 AT SO/--/$206
1845 FB $29
1925 AT $66/$87
2325 GL $29

And here's PDX to SPK:
0800 FB $52 via Seattle
0820 AT $142/$170/$414 chng at Seattle
0950 GL $60 chng at Hermiston
1645 AT $50/--/$202

AT = Amtrak Coach/Business/Sleeper, FB = Flixbus includes service charge rounded,
GL = Greyhound Lines includes service charge rounded.
SO = Sold Out.

 

[zephyr17]

Sunday, May 21st - space for Business Class still not adequate. Some choice for coach travel and passengers are not being pushed onto the bus lines.

Here's the PDX to SEA line-up as of Wednesday night:
0800 FB $29
0820 AT $59/87
0925 GL $29
1020 FB $29
1200 AT $66/SO
1230 FB $29
1500 FB $29
1505 AT SO/SO
1556 AT SO/--/$206
1845 FB $29
1925 AT $66/$87
2325 GL $29

And here's PDX to SPK:
0800 FB $52 via Seattle
0820 AT $142/$170/$414 chng at Seattle
0950 GL $60 chng at Hermiston
1645 AT $50/--/$202

AT = Amtrak Coach/Business/Sleeper, FB = Flixbus includes service charge rounded,
GL = Greyhound Lines includes service charge rounded.
SO = Sold Out.

Well, considering there are only like 15 BC seats in the Horizon cafe/BC cars that's a hard limit on BC space on the Horizon sets. PDX-SEA that's everything except 500 ("AT 820") and 14 with no BC (AT 1556). I don't see that changing before the Siemens are delivered unless Washington DOT throws enough of a hissy fit for Amtrak to assign something like some Amfleet IIs for use as BC cars.

 

[Willbridge]

Sunday, June 18th - space for Business Class still not adequate (see post above). Choice for coach travel at maximum fares. It looks as if passengers are being pushed onto the bus lines by top bucket fares.

Here's the PDX to SEA line-up as of Wednesday night:
0800 FB $39
0820 AT $66/SO
0925 GL $34
1020 FB $44
1200 AT $66/SO
1230 FB $49
1500 FB $39
1505 AT $66/SO
1556 AT $59/--/$206
1845 FB $39
1925 AT $66/SO
2325 GL $29

And here's PDX to SPK:
0800 FB $66 via Seattle
0820 AT $212/SO/$281 chng at Seattle
0950 FB>GL $86 chng at Hermiston
1645 AT $76/--/$385

AT = Amtrak Coach/Business/Sleeper, FB = Flixbus includes service charge rounded,
GL = Greyhound Lines includes service charge rounded.
SO = Sold Out.

From the 1930's into the 1960's, rather than run frequent passenger service to compete with frequent bus service between Portland and Seattle, railway tariffs offered short limit coach fares and a basic schedule that began with two overnight trains plus one each AM, midday, and PM. Later this was cut to one overnight train which was rotated each year between the three companies. In 1959 (?) the overnight train was discontinued.

In June 1968 (when I was classified 1A by my draft board), here were the PDX--SEA fares:

$4.00 Rail OW good for 5 days.
$4.00 Bus OW
$5.85 Rail OW good for ? days.
$7.20 Rail RT good for 30 days.
$7.20 Bus RT
$7.41 Rail OW First Class good for ? days.
$10.55 Rail RT good for 6 months.
$13.35 Rail RT First Class good for 6 months.

Parlor seat fare on top of First Class - $1.60
Pullman seat fare on top of First Class - $2.00

The regular rail fares were used when calculating discounts such as Group, Family Plan, Rail-Air Plan, Clergy, Furlough, Banana Messenger, Circus, Drover, etc.

Three trains each way, nine GL Expresses, six GL Non-Stop, plus GL Locals. Trailways offered two Extra Fare Golden Eagles and four Silver Eagles; all were comparable with GL Expresses.

 

[Willbridge]

Sunday, July 23rd - space for Business Class still not adequate (see posts above). Choice for coach travel at maximum fares. It looks as if passengers are being pushed onto the bus lines by top bucket fares.

Here's the PDX to SEA line-up as of Wednesday night:
0800 FB $64
0820 AT SO/SO
0925 GL $34
1020 FB $59
1200 AT SO/SO
1230 FB $44
1500 FB $44
1505 AT SO/SO
1556 AT SO/--/$224
1845 FB $54
1925 AT $66/SO
2325 GL $29

And here's PDX to SPK:
0800 FB $107 via Seattle
0820 AT SO/SO/SO chng at Seattle
0950 FB>GL $52 chng at Hermiston
1645 AT $95/--/$821

AT = Amtrak Coach/Business/Sleeper, FB = Flixbus includes service charge rounded,
GL = Greyhound Lines includes service charge rounded.
SO = Sold Out.

 

[zephyr17]

Sunday, July 23rd - space for Business Class still not adequate (see posts above).

Cannot see how there can be any expansion of Business Class while running Horizon BC/Cafe cars. Changing that seems unlikely until the Siemens Ventures are delivered. So don't really understand the "still" since a change cannot be expected.

 

[Willbridge]

Cannot see how there can be any expansion of Business Class while running Horizon BC/Cafe cars. Changing that seems unlikely until the Siemens Ventures are delivered. So don't really understand the "still" since a change cannot be expected.

Good point. On the other hand, my dad before he passed away suggested running Viewliner sleepers as business class. He was recollecting the days of seat charges for daytime Pullman travel.

 

[zephyr17]

Good point. On the other hand, my dad before he passed away suggested running Viewliner sleepers as business class. He was recollecting the days of seat charges for daytime Pullman travel.

They could ship in Amfleet IIs and run them as BC, too. I'd regard that as more likely than Viewliners. However, both possibilities are highly unlikely and would require Washington DOT actively pushing Amtrak to provide more BC capacity, paying for it, and Amtrak being willing and able to round up roadworthy equipment.

 

[Willbridge]

Sunday, July 30th - seats available on some trains, at high prices.

Here's the PDX to SEA line-up as of Wednesday night:
0800 FB $34
0820 AT $59/$87
0925 GL $29
1020 FB $44
1200 AT $66/SO
1230 FB $34
1500 FB $44
1505 AT SO/SO
1556 AT SO/--/$224
1845 FB $34
1925 AT $66/SO
2325 GL $29

And here's PDX to SPK:
0800 FB $61 via Seattle
0820 AT $212/ $233/$302 chng at Seattle
0950 FB>GL $52 chng at Hermiston
1645 AT $114/--/$339

AT = Amtrak Coach/Business/Sleeper, FB = Flixbus includes service charge rounded,
GL = Greyhound Lines includes service charge rounded.
SO = Sold Out.

 

[Willbridge]

Sunday, August 6th - seats available on some trains, at high prices. Bizarre low fare offered on PDX>VAC train.

Here's the PDX to SEA line-up as of Wednesday night:
0800 FB $34
0820 AT $53/$87
0925 GL $29
1020 FB $44
1200 AT $66/SO
1230 FB $34
1500 FB $44
1505 AT $27/SO
1556 AT SO/--/$206
1845 FB $44
1925 AT $59/$87
2325 GL $29

And here's PDX to SPK:
0800 FB $66 via Seattle
0820 AT $212/ $233/$277 chng at Seattle
0950 FB>GL $49 chng at Hermiston
1645 AT $95/--/$395

AT = Amtrak Coach/Business/Sleeper, FB = Flixbus includes service charge rounded,
GL = Greyhound Lines includes service charge rounded.
SO = Sold Out.

 

[Willbridge]

Sunday, August 13th - seats available on the clean-up train at high prices.

Here's the PDX to SEA line-up as of Wednesday night:
0800 FB $44
0820 AT SO/SO
0925 GL $29
1020 FB $49
1200 AT SO/SO
1230 FB $34
1500 FB $34
1505 AT SO/SO
1556 AT SO/--/$224
1845 FB $49
1925 AT $66/$87
2325 GL $29

And here's PDX to SPK:
0800 FB $76 via Seattle
0820 AT SO/SO/SO chng at Seattle
0950 FB>GL $50 chng at Hermiston
1645 AT $95/--/$257

AT = Amtrak Coach/Business/Sleeper, FB = Flixbus includes service charge rounded,
GL = Greyhound Lines includes service charge rounded.
SO = Sold Out.

 

[Willbridge]

Sunday, August 20th - seats available on the clean-up train at high prices.

Here's the PDX to SEA line-up as of Wednesday night:
0800 FB $59
0820 AT $66/$87
0925 GL $29
1020 FB $34
1200 AT SO/SO
1230 FB $34
1500 FB $34
1505 AT SO/SO
1556 AT SO/--/$174
1845 FB $34
1925 AT $66/$87
2325 GL $29

And here's PDX to SPK:
0800 FB $97 via Seattle
0820 AT SO/--/$369 chng at Seattle
0950 FB>GL $48 chng at Hermiston
1645 AT $74/--/$294

AT = Amtrak Coach/Business/Sleeper, FB = Flixbus includes service charge rounded,
GL = Greyhound Lines includes service charge rounded.
SO = Sold Out.

 

[Willbridge]

Sunday, September 10th - seats available on the clean-up train at high prices.

Here's the PDX to SEA line-up as of Wednesday night:
0800 FB $29
0820 AT SO/SO
0925 GL Discontinued
1020 FB $34
1200 AT SO/SO
1230 FB $29
1500 FB $34
1505 AT SO/SO
1556 AT SO/--/$161
1850 FB $34
1925 AT $53/$87
2325 GL $29

And here's PDX to SPK:
0800 FB $52 via Seattle
0820 AT SO/--/SO chng at Seattle
0950 FB>GL $46 chng at Hermiston
1645 AT SO/--/$339

AT = Amtrak Coach/Business/Sleeper, FB = Flixbus includes service charge rounded,
GL = Greyhound Lines includes service charge rounded.
SO = Sold Out.

 

[Willbridge]

Sunday, October 1st - coach seats available at high prices.

Here's the PDX to SEA line-up as of Wednesday night:
0800 FB $29
0820 AT $66/SO
1020 FB $29
1200 AT $66/SO
1230 FB $34
1500 FB $34
1505 AT $66/SO
1556 AT $66/--/$293
1850 FB $39
1925 AT $42/$87
2325 GL $29

And here's PDX to SPK:
0800 FB $52 via Seattle
0820 AT SO/--/$256 chng at Seattle
0950 FB>GL chng at Hermiston DISCONTINUED
1645 AT $50/--/$202

Northwestern Trailways now has a second daily bus SPK<>SEA "overnight" via I-90. It stops at Amtrak stations in Seattle and Spokane, but as of 28 Sep 23 does not show in Amtrak's website. Eastbound departs Seattle at 2250 and arrives Spokane at 0425. Westbound departs Spokane at 2215 and arrives Seattle at 0335. (I doubt that the station is open at that time.)

AT = Amtrak Coach/Business/Sleeper, FB = Flixbus includes service charge rounded,
GL = Greyhound Lines includes service charge rounded.
SO = Sold Out.