how much different were the "good old days"?

[yarrow]

i was looking through one of my train books today about the post-war "empire builder" and wishing i could have taken a ride on it. for those who have experienced the "golden age" how different was it from today's amtrak. the trains were more frequent but what was better than today's pacific parlour car? did there used to be the odd surly obs person? for the money, was the food that much better and so forth. thanks

 

[zephyr17]

i was looking through one of my train books today about the post-war "empire builder" and wishing i could have taken a ride on it. for those who have experienced the "golden age" how different was it from today's amtrak. the trains were more frequent but what was better than today's pacific parlour car? did there used to be the odd surly obs person? for the money, was the food that much better and so forth. thanks

As one who has ridden the Santa Fe Super Chief, the answer is, yes, it was really different. The ops crews could vary in their politeness, but the service crews were great. The food was great, there were no odd, surly employees to my recollection. The lounge steward went out to get drink orders. The cars were spotless, there were not giant plastic lined paper trash bags. The train was on time.

It was better than the PPC because the lounges were consistently staffed, and didn't mysteriously disappear (I am not talking about scheduled meal breaks). They had table service. Heck, I remember riding a San Diegan from LA to Anaheim when I was fifteen, and the lounge steward came to my table to get my drink order -- and the San Diegan was no Super Chief.

It is an entire lost world, and Amtrak is very different from it.

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

Other than commuter, I never had the chance to ride a pre-Amtrak passenger train, and my first long haul came in the summer of 1974 when I rode the Lone Star (former Texas Chief) from Chicago to Norman; it still had the Texas Chief consist of Hi Level Coaches with the Lounge, Diner and Sleepers ex Santa Fe single level. I still remember how professional the Lounge Car attendent was, as were the Dining Car Stewards. I still recall some woman, drunk off her gourd in the Lounge proclaiming loudly to her husband "Honey, aren't you glad you're taking me to Texas" and the guy sitting next to me quietly responding "and you'd be best off leaving her there!" As a "Coachie," I even sneaked back to the round tail observation where the Conductor was more than happy to have someone to talk with and brag about his train. So at least based on that trip, a lot of the old hadn't worn off yet.

 

[henryj]

i was looking through one of my train books today about the post-war "empire builder" and wishing i could have taken a ride on it. for those who have experienced the "golden age" how different was it from today's amtrak. the trains were more frequent but what was better than today's pacific parlour car? did there used to be the odd surly obs person? for the money, was the food that much better and so forth. thanks

Well, the big difference was that the railroads ran their own trains and took pride in them and ran them on time. So there were more, yes, but it was more the variety that was different. The food was always good. The trains I rode include, the Sunbeam, the Sunset Limited, the Texas Eagle, the Valley Eagle, the Twin Star Rocket, The Sam Houston Zephyr, the Texas Zephyr, the Texas Chief, The City of Portland, The Canadian, The California Zephyr, The City of San Francisco, the Coast Daylight, a San Diegan, and the Spirit of St Louis. Also, Portland to Seattle(UP)and Seattle to Vancouver(GN) and also Washington, D.C. to NY on the Pennsy and Winnipeg to St Paul on the Soo Line. to name a few.

 

[AlanB]

I've split off the "Why PPC's don't run on other Amtrak trains" to this topic.

 

[Bob Dylan]

i was looking through one of my train books today about the post-war "empire builder" and wishing i could have taken a ride on it. for those who have experienced the "golden age" how different was it from today's amtrak. the trains were more frequent but what was better than today's pacific parlour car? did there used to be the odd surly obs person? for the money, was the food that much better and so forth. thanks

My old days were limited to four lines,the Katy(M-K-T),MP,T&P and the SP!The Katy trips were on locals in Texas only,it was only in what was called

chair or day coach but was still a thrill,the best thing I remember is the candy butcher coming round to sell his wares,sort of like a ball game or the

circus!The MP was the Texas Eagle to St. Louis and was my first dome car/sleeper ride from Texas including eating in the diner which I thought was

wonderful and arrived in the morning in the beautiful St. Louis Station,now a mall!The old Texas Special from Ft. Worth used to stop across

Congress Ave. in downtown Austin which was the Dallas-San Antonio highway before IH35 was built!Last but not least was the SP,my grandfathers

railroad,all my trips were from Central to West Texas,most were "milk runs" with lots of water stops for the Steamers pulling the train,what a thrill

for a kid to ride a steam train even if it took forever and was in a chair coach with upright seats,linoleum floors and NO AC!!!!!One time I got to ride the

gleaming silver Sunset Limited from San Antonio to El Paso,a fast train with few stops,wonderful service on clean cars pulled by diesel engines!!!

The diner and the lounge cars were fantastic even if the food was,for the day,pricey!Very impressive to a kid and to this day whenever I ride a train

I think back to wonderful times but am thankful we still have passenger trains in spite of the people who tried to kill them for so many years, most of

whom have no soul and no sense of adventure like we train-a-holics! ("These are the good old days too!)

 

[jefffromark]

i was looking through one of my train books today about the post-war "empire builder" and wishing i could have taken a ride on it. for those who have experienced the "golden age" how different was it from today's amtrak. the trains were more frequent but what was better than today's pacific parlour car? did there used to be the odd surly obs person? for the money, was the food that much better and so forth. thanks

I had the pleasure of riding the Silver Meteor between Trenton NJ & West Palm Beach from 1965 through 1975. During private ownership (SAL & SCL) onboard service was A+. The Meteor had a dedicated first class sun-lounge, while coach pax had the tavern-obs lounge. Both cars were staffed and I remember the attendant out among the pax, delivering drinks and taking orders. During the winter season there were 2 attendants in the tavern-obs, one stayed behind the counter while the other took orders. I remember the snack menu was more limited then what Amtrak offers today. Once onboard I was back in the observation car watching the tracks dissapear and talking it up with other pax. There was plenty of seating available, the front was a tavern with booths and other tables set up the way Amtrak's Cross County Cafe is today. In the obs section there was a desk & chair for writing letters (paper & envelopes provided) and up to 12 easy chairs on each side facing the middle.

Each coach had it's own attendant, and early evening they opened the "attic" of each coach and started getting the pillows, put on a new linen cover and rented them out for .25 cents each...real pillows too!! Back in those days the only thing that might have kept you awake was snoring, didnt have to worry about radio's, cd players, computers, loud talking, etc. The restrooms were huge, usually had a couch in there with a few sinks and two enclosed toilets. If you had a sleeper, then you had peace and quiet. The porter kept an eye out for strangers and kicked them out. There wasn't to much foot traffic and people respected the "Quiet". Also there was a budget-room coach, which gave you a bed and toilet for a mear $18.00 plus coach fare and this car was usually way up front behind the baggage-dorm.

Of course, the best feature was the dining car. I remember standing in line in the aisle next to the kitchen at dinner time, peering out those low window, waiting for a table to become available. There were no reservations, the only train to offer that was the seasonal Florida Special. The Meteor most times had 2 diners, one for sleepers and the other for coaches but I don't remember any difference between the two. There were at least 5 waiters, all men and the food was fresh and you got the whole meal, including beverage and dessert. I always enjoyed how the waiter cleaned up the mess from previous guests and reset the table - almost like magic. The waiter brings out that huge silver tray filled with your steaming hot entree and whips down the plates like it was nothing to it. And the steward, how his vest had a lot of pockets where he stashed all the bills and coins; and when you paid up he whipped out that big wad of dough and gave you change. And breakfast, the smell of that fresh brewed coffee was just wonderful. If you tipped your waiter well from the previous meal, the next meal he would waved you down to his area and treat you good. Oh how I yearn for that real railroad french toast served with real butter and warm syrup.

When Amtrak took over in 1971, the Meteor eventually lost its observation car but everything else remained the same. What I did enjoy was when former UP and SP cars came east, coaches with leg-rests and mid-train lounges that had carpeting and televisions...pretty neat! I think it was the 1980's when Amtrak became sterile - alot of changes were made and things never got back to the way I remember it. One thing that never changed was time keeping. We never arrived on time going south, and there were plenty of times we sat in sidings with no information...that is one thing Amtrak did improve on.

 

[Long Train Runnin']

Here is my take on it. A little long but just my thoughts

Since the 1930’s America’s rail network has changed dramatically. In the 1950’s we saw a peak in the golden age of passenger rail. The era of steam trains and wooden coaches transformed into sleek stainless steel cars with diesel locomotives pulling trains at much higher speeds. These new fast and shiny trains captured America for a few years, however the commercial airliner, and the brand new interstate system slowly bled passenger rail to death. Americans took to the skies that cut travel time exponentially over trains, or Americans began driving their automobiles and enjoyed the freedom that comes with having a private car. Railroads kept on fighting into the 1960’s, however railroads just could not keep up. Finally, passenger rail fell to a point where the low ridership caused railroads to take a big loss do to operating half empty passenger trains.

After ridership fell to new lows in the late 1950’s railroads were content to let passenger rail service as a whole disappear. The government was not ready to let this happen so, the government solution was to create Amtrak in 1971 with the idea that passenger rail service would just disappear in six months to a year. The early Amtrak was a mash up of all kind of equipment from all kinds of railroads. Amtrak scaled down passenger rail routes condensing the system and making fewer runs. Amtrak didn’t fail like freight railroads said it would; instead with the help of government subsides Amtrak became a stable and useable passenger rail system. Amtrak executives took the right approach by first shrinking the rail network Amtrak inherited. Amtrak cut frequencies down on almost all routes to one train a day in each direction. This move was a decision made at the time where ridership was at its lowest point. This however led to major cities in the United States only seeing trains in the middle of the night. Today the need for more passenger rail is clear and people want new routes added. In addition to building totally new infrastructure that would provide true high-speed rail to a larger part of the United States. Amtrak has seen some dark times with federal subside were nearly zero making hard for Amtrak to even operate on a daily basis. Amtrak has opened a new chapter in the history of passenger rail. It had 25.8 million riders in 2008 and shows no sign of slowing down. In this paper we will compare what passenger rail was like in the 1950’s to today’s government run model.

Railroading changed for ever in 1938 when Union Pacific unveiled there new m-10000 the first ever stream lined train. This 204-foot train was an experimental train with its engine being built into the train. It only had seating for 104 and a small buffet in the last car. Nonetheless this train could cruise at 110 M.P.H. The entire train weighed less then one current generation heavy weight sleeper. It was for its day quite a first class train featuring air conditioning and fluorescent lighting. Depression era Americans who flocked to see it during its nationwide tour instantly loved this train. President Franklin Delano Roosevelt even toured the train. The M-10000 entered regular passenger service on January 31, 1935 on a simple 2 round trip schedule between Kansas City and Topeka.

A month and half later the Burlington Railroad unveiled the Zephyr 9900. It was made of stainless steel, which at the time cost a lot more, to manufacture, but Burlington saw that it would have a low over all maintenance cost. The Burlington Zephyr was delivered on April 7, 1934 just nine months and twenty-seven days after the order was placed. On its first test run, the Zephyr 9900 reached a top speed of 104 M.P.H. The train went on a yearlong tour making stops in 222 cities and attracting over 2 million people. The highlight of its tour would be its record setting dash from Denver to Chicago. It left Denver at 5:05 A.M. and arrived in Chicago at 7:10 P.M. The train rolled right into the Century of Progress World’s Fair Exposition to a cheering crowd. The train had an average speed of 78 M.P.H. on its 1,015-mile journey.

These early streamliners were not only eye catching; the streamliners had much lower operating costs. Burlington found that Zephyr 9900 it cost half as much to run the streamliners and that the streamliner could do twice the work of a 3-car heavy weight train powered by steam. Meaning the savings far out weighed the initial investment of building a streamliner. Union Pacific was very confident in the new technology and started work on the M-10001 a long distance streamliner featuring a baggage/dormitory car, three sleeping cars, and a coach/buffet car. Burlington was not far behind, Burlington took delivery on 9901 and 9902, which they called the twin Zephyrs. Both sets were three cars and had seating for 88. On the first test run 9901 made the run from Chicago to Minneapolis/ St. Paul in just over 6 hours twice as fast as scheduled steam trains along the route! To inaugurate the route Burlington did something quite special. Burlington invited 44 sets of identical twins to ride aboard. They then met with the other Zephyr 9902 and were split up with 44 in each train and then 9901 and 9902 ran side-by-side back to Chicago!

First class rail travel reached its height in 1951 on the Santa Fe Super Chief America’s most famous totally first class train. The “Master Rooms” were the most deluxe rail accommodations they were large by train compartment standards, and featured a shower, which for the time was unheard of. In fact when the Super Chief started running those were the first on board showers to be offered. These spacious and ornate rooms were for the elite and super rich. The highlight of this train was the “Pleasure Dome” a three floor lounge which had a large easy chairs and large windows. The second level featured a private dinning room that could be booked for parties aboard the train. The third and most impressive level was dome its self. It was made completely of glass and allowed great 360 degree viewing of the passing scenery. This train had several other lounges on board which included a library, and even a barbershop! This was a crown jewel of railroading.

New York Central also had a legendary train called the 20th Century Limited. When the train began boarding a red carpet was rolled out from the gate down to the platform. This train catered to an elite crowd of the rich and famous. Sometimes it was called the “tycoon train”, because it was known to carry rich investors and businessmen. It actually attracted many repeat customers who got to experience a more personal and intimate ride since the crews knew them. The train carried an impeccable on time performance running a 16-hour schedule between New York and Chicago. This made it an attractive way to ship mail as well. Over 7,000 pieces of mail a day paid the extra fee to ensure it was taken on the 20th Century Limited. It had one thing that made it unique and that was the telephone in each room that could be patched over radio and used for global long distance calls. This was something well ahead of its time.

These two trains are an example of the best of the best from the 1950’s however first class service on all train was almost the same. Thanks to its operation being handed over to the Pullman Standard Company, which built and operated first class cars on all the different railroads. These Pullman cars were operated with the highest degree of pride. A Pullman porter did there job with a sense of pride that has since faded from the railroad world. The porters went through a lot of training and were well disciplined. The job was sought after so anyone who was not doing a job up to standards would be removed. In other words you were to receive the same level of service from a Pullman Porter on any railroad or any train running in the U.S.

Unfortunately this uniformed service no longer exists. Even though all sleeping cars are run by Amtrak the uniform service is no longer there. Under Amtrak sleeping car attendants receive two weeks of training, one run as a trainee, and are then thrust into their role. These attendant jobs are no longer sought after the way a Pullman job was, so the people hired do not have that same pride or drive. Instead attendants look at the job as a paycheck and do the bare minimum to get by. Frequent Amtrak riders will attest that they will have an attendant who is caring and will do small things which makes the trip feel truly first class. While on the next ride Amtrak travelers have attendant who in some cases they never even see, leaving them to do things like make up the beds themselves. While this kind of thing is rare, it does show the lack of consistency in today’s trains.

Today aboard Amtrak there are two types of equipment that can be found on Amtrak long distance trains. East of Chicago Amtrak long distance trains are made up Amfleet coach cars, and Viewliner sleepers. The cars are single level due to tunnel clearance being lower in the east. An Amfleet coach seats 64 passengers each seat has a foot rest, fold down tray table, and electrical outlet at each seat. The Viewliners are the first class cars. Each Viewliner car has three types of passenger rooms, the bedroom, an accessible room, and roomettes. There are two bedrooms that can sleep three people, and comes with a private in room toilet and shower. One accessible room that can accommodate two people who use a wheel chair. There are 12 roomettes in each car that can sleep two. The roomette has its own in room toilet, there is a community shower down the hall.

West of Chicago Amtrak long distance trains use Superliner cars. These are bi-level cars since tunnel clearance is higher west of Chicago. There are Superiner coaches that seat which seat 74 people, and include a foot rest, fold down tray table, and electrical outlet at each seat. The Superliner sleeping cars have four types of rooms, a bedroom, accessible room, family bedroom, and roomette. A bedroom can sleep three adults, and features a private in room toilet and shower. The accessible room can sleep two adults and is designed with handicapped accessible toilet as well as shower. The family bedroom can sleep two adults and two children this room is located downstairs and due to the extra beds does not have a private bathroom. The roomette can sleep two adults, roomettes have no bathroom facilities so there are five bathrooms and one shower located on the lower level of the car for their use.

One thing hasn’t changed from the designs of the old streamliners, these newer current cars are all made of shining stainless steel. The exteriors look almost identical to earlier trains like the Burlington Zephyr 9900. Although some improvements have been made on the inside, like the ability for all passengers to shower while aboard. They have also made sleeping compartments affordable, where as in the 1950’s they were reserved for the ultra rich.

One large change in Amtrak compared to the heritage railroads of the past is the food service. Today aboard an Amtrak Long Distance train there are three set ups for food service. A café care for light meals that can be enjoyed anywhere aboard the train. A full dining car serving three full meals a day with most items being cooked to order on the train. This is more of a formal set up that due to the cost is disappearing. This style of meals cooked to order is sadly being phased out by a mandate from congress to cut food service losses brought about the new world of Amtrak food service Simplified Dining Service or SDS. It was supposed to turn Amtrak’s food service into a profitable and functional area. As it would come to pass Simplified Dining Service has proved completely ineffective and is not saving Amtrak any money. Amtrak spent millions of dollars converting original Superliner Diners to Cross Country Cafes. This move reduced staffing because Amtrak combined two separate cars the dining car and lounge car into one quasi-eye combination of the two. This cut 3 staff positions however it also reduced the seating for the diner as now half the car has to be used as lounge seating. This saved the money of the staffing yes, but it nearly cut the revenue of the dining car in half. It has affected riders in several ways. The quality of the food has gone down tremendously as food is no longer made fresh aboard the train, and is now pre-made that are simply heated on board the train and served. In addition the decrease in staffing means on full trains there simply isn’t enough staff to keep up with the demand. Customers now face long waits between ordering and their food being delivered by servers trying to handle 32 customers all in different stages of their meals. Servers are often so busy that customers may not even have drink orders taken for as long as twenty minutes.

This was not the case while eating aboard trains in the 1950’s. The dining cars of the era were considered fine dining, and eating in one required dressing up according. Patrons would dress into their Sunday’s best wearing suits and evening gowns. The wait staff were dressed in crisp white tuxedos. The cars had bus boys, as well as waiters, to ensure that passenger’s every need was taken care of while dinning.

All of the food in the car was freshly prepared and cooked to order. The food was usually fresh since streamliners did not have much on board refrigeration crews would pick the next meals supplies at a station. This led to a great diversity in menus between the different railroads. The railroads created their menus around food that was easy to get locally. This gave you more of a feel for the regional flavor as you passed through. Regional menus sadly are a thing of the past thanks to better food processing and storage. Amtrak long distance trains now carry virtually the same menu on all trains. This of course saves money on Amtrak’s part, but takes away a chance for a passenger to get more of a feel for a place they ride through. Overall, the dining service aboard an Amtrak long distance train is a far cry from the dining experience onboard a train from the 1950’s.

The paper has drawn a parallel between the 1950’s and todays rail travel. Looking at the difference between the first class travel in a Pullman compartment compared to a room aboard an Amtrak train. Also, examining the legendary trains that used to thunder down the tracks where passenger rail really reached its true peak. Finally, it discussed the sharp contrast between the food service of the past and present. From tuxedo clad waiters delivering freshly prepared meals to Amtrak’s new Simplified Dining Service featuring pre-cooked meals being heated and served on plastic plates. All in all, I think that the trains of the 1950’s were far superior to current trains in the United States.

However all things considered, Amtrak is an effective solution to handle inter-city rail in the United States. Amtrak might not be perfect, however passenger rail is not a profitable venture with out government subsidies. As Americans face this energy crisis passenger rail should see an increase in funding from future Presidents because passenger rail is very eco-friendly. With more funding perhaps Amercia will see a new golden age of railroading and she can recapture some of that glory. America could forge ahead into true high-speed rail and have trains coasting through the landscape at over 200 M.P.H. This would be a new era of railroading where it could blossom beyond where it did in the 1950’s. Railroads could again return to the spot light as the premier way to move people from one place to another. If the high speed rail networks emerge and criss-cross the country it would spur huge economic growth and bring our railroads back as world leaders of efficiency and innovation. Railroads have been a vital part of this nation for over 150 years, and will continue to be a part of the American culture for generations to come.

 

[jmbgeg]

I've split off the "Why PPC's don't run on other Amtrak trains" to this topic.

Appropriate. I was off-topic from the original post.

 

[AlanB]

I had the pleasure of riding the Silver Meteor between Trenton NJ & West Palm Beach from 1965 through 1975.

Wow! You spent 10 years just riding back and forth on the same train.

That's almost like Ground Hog Day. :lol: Reliving the same thing over and over.

 

[Trainmans daughter]

How about that French Toast? That might be my best memory from the train trip I took with my mom and dad in 1963 to visit my sister in Phoenix. After it was fried in batter, it was oven baked to make it puffy. It was the best ever. Nothing like the French Toast on today's menus. Maybe I remember it so vividly because it was one of the few things my mom didn't complain about! (Oops! Did I say that out loud?)

 

[sky12065]

I had the pleasure of riding the Silver Meteor between Trenton NJ & West Palm Beach from 1965 through 1975.

Wow! You spent 10 years just riding back and forth on the same train.

That's almost like Ground Hog Day. :lol: Reliving the same thing over and over.

Sounds like you're talkn' about the Traveler! Or do you have the two confused? :unsure:

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

Such a big topic. So much to say. Where to begin.

Let us start with food. Definately better in every way back then, all kinds of regional delicacies. But......at the same time..some trains had no diner at all. Especially multi stop locals, but even some other trains as well.Sometimes a box lunch was put on board or you got off the train and ate at local stations.

There were different levels of service back then. They might be a train with coaches, sleepers, diners, lounge, domes etc. Some other trains on the same route might just have coaches,sleeper, a diner.They could vary a lot in number of stops and length of schedule. Some trains from Chicago to Florida might be about 12 hours faster than others, for one example. Yes, I mean serious differences.Not something you would find on Amtrak today.Lots and Lots of variety back then.

Today we have the Texas Eagle and the Sunset Limited coming together in SAS. And the LSL splittng to Boston and NYC. That type of operation was extremely common back then. Also cars added or subracted en route to reflect ridership differences and set out sleepers. And trains being interline, i.e operated by several diferent railroads. All this extremely common. Many would find an old Official Railroad Guide to be amazing. This paragraph is more about operations, though, than quality, I guess. Though havng sleepers switched from one train to another saving passengers the trouble does amount to convenience for the passengers.

Back to food, that was delicious and service tended to be better and more consistent than today.Full staffed, of course.

I think there was much less rudeness, unclean cars. Delays such as the Sunset Limited, the Star"late"etc suffered for such a long time would hardly have been tolerated. But there were delays, no doubt.

Lounge cars were often quite nice, sometimes with regional decor. But they usually did not serve nearly as many kinds of food as today. You often either ate a formal expensive meal in the diner or brought your own. Not much waltzing down to the lounge to get a sandwich and coke. Then again, some trains had cars with names like coffee shop lounge, grill lounge, diner lounge etc, which offered less expensive and elaborate meals. Some trains had that. That brings us back to the fact that there was so much more variety.

The era before Amtrak is more and more referred to as the streamlned era. Please be careful to note that that does not mean that every train was a streamliner. Not at all. Just do not want anyone think every train was a super duper deluxe train like the Super Chief. For balance, you had trains like the Georgia RR mixed.

But if you were on the 20th Century Limited or the Super Chief, you were on the top of the transportation world, alright.

There were not nearly as many showers back then. Not as many coaches had full length leg rests. Not much in the way of public address system. Of course sometimes today that is ignored.

In the 50's business began to slip. Some railroads like Santa Fe, Union Pacific,Seaboard to name a few became quite pro-passenger.Some others, like New York Central, Southern Pacific, etc began to get negative.

If you really want to compare you might say in the best service was in the 50's, the serious decline in the 60's was the worst and Amtrak is sort of in the middle.

I will probably think of more to say later.

Some have named their trains. Guess I will name mine. My preAmtrak mileage is 63,337, Canadian 11,452,Amtrak about 84,000.

Pre Amtrak trains ridden:

Crescent, Georgian, California Zephyr,City of San Francisco (combined with the City of Los Angeles, thus I got to eat in its dome diner), Empire Builder, Texas Eagle, Canadian, Super Continental,Birmingham Special, San Francisco Chief, Super Chief (combined with El Capitan thus I walked through high level), Sunset Limited, Panama Limited,Dixie Flyer, Silver Meteor, Tennessean, Dixie Land, Dixie Flagler,South Wind, Pelican, Silver Star,Cascade, Silver Comet, Royal Palm,Panama Limited. Southerner, Pan American,Humming Bird, Buckeye,Memphis local, Southern Crescent,Carolina Special, Coast Daylight, Metroliner, Flamingo,Georgia mixed train, Ponce de Leon,Louisiana Eagle, Sam Houston Zepher and others, esp. unnamed locals. Various steam engine excursions, etc.

Amtrak trains:

Pioneer, Desert Wind,Southwest Chief,James Whitcomb Riley, Broadway Limited,Empire State Expess,Capital Limited,Ann Rutledge, City of New Orleans,Lakeshore Limited,Floridian,Montrealer,Maple Leaf,Acela,Downeaster,St.Clair,Pacific Surfliner,Turbo train,Senator,Empire Builder,Abraham Lincoln,regional, Twin Cities Hiawatha,California Zephyr,Crescent, Gulf Breeze,San Diegan, Piedmont,Coast Starlight.

I think the general laziness and rudeness has more to do with societal changes than railroad vs Amtrak.

To the ease of computer and instant reservations,that, too, has more to do with societal changes than railroad vs Amtrak.

 

[AlanB]

How about that French Toast? That might be my best memory from the train trip I took with my mom and dad in 1963 to visit my sister in Phoenix. After it was fried in batter, it was oven baked to make it puffy. It was the best ever. Nothing like the French Toast on today's menus. Maybe I remember it so vividly because it was one of the few things my mom didn't complain about! (Oops! Did I say that out loud?)

If you really like French Toast, then you need to go to Disney World's Polynessian Resort and order the banna stuffed french toast served in the resturant's there. It's called the Tonga. MMMMMMMMMMMM!

 

[sky12065]

How about that French Toast? That might be my best memory from the train trip I took with my mom and dad in 1963 to visit my sister in Phoenix. After it was fried in batter, it was oven baked to make it puffy. It was the best ever. Nothing like the French Toast on today's menus. Maybe I remember it so vividly because it was one of the few things my mom didn't complain about! (Oops! Did I say that out loud?)

If you really like French Toast, then you need to go to Disney World's Polynessian Resort and order the banna stuffed french toast served in the resturant's there. It's called the Tonga. MMMMMMMMMMMM!

Tonga-tonga-tonga-tonga... yummy... sounds great! We'll have to go over and try it when we stay at Disney's Boardwalk next year!

 

[Trainmans daughter]

It's not so much about the French Toast as about the memories of the "puffed up French toast on the train"! (But I love the Mickey Mouse pancakes at Disneyland, since we're on the subject!)

 

[Bob Dylan]

Great stories guys(and ladies!),especially the vast experience of Bill Pre-Amtrak,guess hes the traveler the first

pre-amtrak and todays traveler is the amtrak traveler!Wish I could ridden the old streamliner trains in the west,

and the Broadway Ltd. and the 20th Century too!My overall impression is that in the old days "best" WAS Best!

and Amtrak is closer to the rest of the oldtimer trains with more modern conviences such as AC/comfortable coach seats

and lacking in service from the old time train folks!Dont care for French Toast myself but the Pancakes sound great!!!

One final comment on the old days:the train staff seemed to like kids more than now days but it could be that we were more polite and well mannered??Occasionaly one would run into a gruff conductor but in those days they were Gods,in charge of

a train!!!One thing thats changed for the better is that pax are not condesending to the OBS and a remeinder to not call the

SCAs "Porter"!!!

 

[jphjaxfl]

I rode passenger trains from the time I was less than a month old in 1948. My Dad worked for a division of the NYC in the midwest. My first trip was on the Rocky Mountain Rocket from Joliet, Il to Omaha. When I was growing up in the 1950s and 60s, when my family would travel is was assumed it would be by train so the decision was what railroad and then which train because there were many options. We would travel frequently from Peoria, IL to visit my mother's family in Council Bluffs, IA or Omaha, NE or to visit my Dad's family in middle Tennessee. My mother was a school teacher so we also took educational train trips to the East Coast and other places. Even secondary trains provided excellent service. We would travel from Peoria to Galesburg on a Burlington motor train and then had a choice of the Coloradoan or the Nebraska Zephyr from Galesburg to Council Bluffs. The Coloradoan was secondary heavy weight train from Chicago to Denver that ran about 2 hours ahead of or behind the Nebraska Zephyr (they flipflopped the schedules quite a bit). The Coloradoan carried a heavy weight ParlorLounge Car and a dining car. The Nebraska Zephyr was the original Twin Cities Zephyr which was built in the mid 1930s, but completely refurbished by Burlington after the new Twin Cities Zephyrs were built in 1950. The Nebraska Zephyr carried a ParlorObservation Lounge and dining car. Both trains provided comfortable on time service. At the time, the Burilington had 7 trains each way between Chicago and Omaha, the Rock Island had 4 trains, The Northwestern had about 7 and the Milwaukee Road had 2 until 1955 when The UP Cities Streamliners and other through trains shifted from the NW to the Milwaukee. So 20 trains a day in each direction from Chicago to Omaha with all but maybe 3 trains providing first class parlor or sleeping car service.

This is just a small example of the wonderful trains that ran in the 50s.

 

[jis]

My only pre-Amtrak experience of riding rails in the US was in 1965-66 on a trip from Boston to New York and then on to Washington DC and back to Boston. The specific trains were, the Senator (NH) from Boston to New York, the Congressional (PRR) from New York to Washington and then the Senator back from Washington to Boston, all in Coach.

Sad to say though the experience on that trip was not something that caused me to believe that railroad passenger service was doing good in 1965-66 in the US. The air conditioners in half the train did not work (the open Dutch windows as a feeble attempt to reduce the oppressive heat in the cars was at least a bit of fun though). They were consistently late. Pennsylvania Station was in the process of being torn down and was a phenomenal mess. On the east end of New Haven (around where the Acela does 150 now) there were long stretches of main line track with hardly any ballast to be seen, with the train doing a fine roller-coaster swaying ride! The commuter trains around New York looked like something out of the previous era even when compared to those less well off part of the world at that time. Frankly I couldn't believe that the greatest country in the world that I have always admired had their passenger railroad in such a hopelessly sorry state.

The redeeming features from the vantage point of a railfan were that the Boston train were pulled to New York by NH FL-9s. And of course the GG-1s from New York to Washington too.

Since then of course I have learned that 65-66 was getting pretty close to about the rock bottom that passenger railroading hit in this country before things started improving slowly

My next train ride in the US was on som NEC train by Coach from New York to Washington in 1979. And that was better in every possible way when compared to my experience on the NEC in 1965. The AC worked. The train was more or lesson time and the cars were nice and rode quite well, though with surprisingly small windows - yes I am talking of Amfleet I.

 

[jphjaxfl]

My only pre-Amtrak experience of riding rails in the US was in 1965-66 on a trip from Boston to New York and then on to Washington DC and back to Boston. The specific trains were, the Senator (NH) from Boston to New York, the Congressional (PRR) from New York to Washington and then the Senator back from Washington to Boston, all in Coach.
Sad to say though the experience on that trip was not something that caused me to believe that railroad passenger service was doing good in 1965-66 in the US. The air conditioners in half the train did not work (the open Dutch windows as a feeble attempt to reduce the oppressive heat in the cars was at least a bit of fun though). They were consistently late. Pennsylvania Station was in the process of being torn down and was a phenomenal mess. On the east end of New Haven (around where the Acela does 150 now) there were long stretches of main line track with hardly any ballast to be seen, with the train doing a fine roller-coaster swaying ride! The commuter trains around New York looked like something out of the previous era even when compared to those less well off part of the world at that time. Frankly I couldn't believe that the greatest country in the world that I have always admired had their passenger railroad in such a hopelessly sorry state.

The redeeming features from the vantage point of a railfan were that the Boston train were pulled to New York by NH FL-9s. And of course the GG-1s from New York to Washington too.

Since then of course I have learned that 65-66 was getting pretty close to about the rock bottom that passenger railroading hit in this country before things started improving slowly

My next train ride in the US was on som NEC train by Coach from New York to Washington in 1979. And that was better in every possible way when compared to my experience on the NEC in 1965. The AC worked. The train was more or lesson time and the cars were nice and rode quite well, though with surprisingly small windows - yes I am talking of Amfleet I.

The Pennsy/NYC later Penn Central trains of the mid 1960s to 1971 were terrible. There was very little maintance to the cars and to the tracks. I remember riding the Spirit of St. Louis from Pittsburgh to Indy in 1969. The coach was so cold that ice formed on the inside of the windows. Fortunately, the dining car was comfortable for breakfast and the coffee was hot and the food was good. There were other similar trips on the PC in those years. At the same time, many of the western railroads still had very nice trains with clean and well kept up equipment. The Penn Central horror trains had a lot to do with Amtrak being formerd because the officials in Washington rode the NEC and saw what was happening.

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

My only pre-Amtrak experience of riding rails in the US was in 1965-66 on a trip from Boston to New York and then on to Washington DC and back to Boston. The specific trains were, the Senator (NH) from Boston to New York, the Congressional (PRR) from New York to Washington and then the Senator back from Washington to Boston, all in Coach.
Sad to say though the experience on that trip was not something that caused me to believe that railroad passenger service was doing good in 1965-66 in the US. The air conditioners in half the train did not work (the open Dutch windows as a feeble attempt to reduce the oppressive heat in the cars was at least a bit of fun though). They were consistently late. Pennsylvania Station was in the process of being torn down and was a phenomenal mess. On the east end of New Haven (around where the Acela does 150 now) there were long stretches of main line track with hardly any ballast to be seen, with the train doing a fine roller-coaster swaying ride! The commuter trains around New York looked like something out of the previous era even when compared to those less well off part of the world at that time. Frankly I couldn't believe that the greatest country in the world that I have always admired had their passenger railroad in such a hopelessly sorry state.

The redeeming features from the vantage point of a railfan were that the Boston train were pulled to New York by NH FL-9s. And of course the GG-1s from New York to Washington too.

Since then of course I have learned that 65-66 was getting pretty close to about the rock bottom that passenger railroading hit in this country before things started improving slowly

My next train ride in the US was on som NEC train by Coach from New York to Washington in 1979. And that was better in every possible way when compared to my experience on the NEC in 1965. The AC worked. The train was more or lesson time and the cars were nice and rode quite well, though with surprisingly small windows - yes I am talking of Amfleet I.

It is significant that you rode the Senator and the Congressional, as that relates to the decline in the 60's after the glorious 50's. That is because those very two trains were beautifully re equipped as stainless steel streamliners in the mid 50's. Tht was quite an honour since that corrider service had kind of a sameness to it and one train did not necessarily stand out that much. But these two did----for awhile, that is-----.They were fully equal, though without sleepers, to the Silver Meteor or almost anything else, for a few years that is.They were advertised in the National Geogaphic, for instance.

Another sad story also relates to the PRR. One night the passengers on the Spirit of St.Louis had had enough. They sat down on the tracks in front of the locomotive so the train could not move until the air or the heat or the water of whatever it was got fixed. That was in national headlnes.The saddest thing is that the Spirit of St. Louis had been one of Pennsy's streamlined finest, just like the two above.

So you have to be very careful painting with strokes that are too broad about the past and the present. So much to be said all the way around. .

 

[henryj]

Well, the big difference was that the railroads ran their own trains and took pride in them and ran them on time. So there were more, yes, but it was more the variety that was different. The food was always good. The trains I rode include, the Sunbeam, the Sunset Limited, the Texas Eagle, the Valley Eagle, the Twin Star Rocket, The Sam Houston Zephyr, the Texas Zephyr, the Texas Chief, The City of Portland, The Canadian, The California Zephyr, The City of San Francisco, the Coast Daylight, a San Diegan, and the Spirit of St Louis. Also, Portland to Seattle(UP)and Seattle to Vancouver(GN) and also Washington, D.C. to NY on the Pennsy and Winnipeg to St Paul on the Soo Line. to name a few.

Fortunately all my pre-Amtrak train riding was from the 1940's to 1964. All I can say is every train I rode was clean, in good repair and on time, that is except for the Rock Island, which even then was on it's way down the road to bankruptcy. The Twin Star Rocket in 1962 was clean and the food was good, but it was chronically late. My last trip was January, 1964 from basic training camp at Fort Polk, La to the Brooklyn Army Terminal to ship out for Germany. On that one I got to ride the Flying Crow, the Texas Eagle and the Spirit of St Louis, first class. By the time I got back home three years later, many of the passenger trains I had ridden were gone and what was left was failing fast. Houston had only the downgraded Sunset Limited, the Texas Chief and a remanent of the Texas Eagle. I never rode a train again other than special excursions until years later which by then it was all Amtrak.

When I was in grade school, we had two trips which every school kid took. One was to Austin to visit the Capitol and the other was to San Antonio to visit the Alamo. All I remember from those was how cold the ac was on the trip back. I know we traveled on the SP both trips in heavyweight style harriman coaches with windows that you could open. But the cars were air conditioned(I presume it was ice air as I remember them putting the huge blocks of ice under the cars) so you did not need to open them. I visited my cousin in Dallas for a couple of summers as a little boy and got to ride the SP's streamlined Sunbeam. Mostly I remember how good the strawberry shortcake was in the diner. My mother would put me on the train in Houston and my cousin Susy would meet me in Dallas. Other times she or my grandmother rode up with me. I loved Dallas because they still had streetcars and trolley buses. Susy knew I was fascinated with them and would put me on the streetcar and tell the motorman to watch me and I would ride from one end to the other and back while she went shopping. There was also a trolley bus line that went right by her house.

 

[Bob Dylan]

I did forget one line I used to ride in the old days: The New Haven RR from New London to NYC!Being in the Navy we were allowed to ride round trip for $5 if in uniform!The old NHRR cars were clean(on the inside anyway!LOL)and we would ride in the club car where cigarettes had the shocking price of $1 a pack and also a beer was $1!!The conductors and the club car attendants were always friendly and helpful and the train was always on time!I was schooled to not call GCT "Grand Central Station" so we got to see both the old NYP(those were the days my friend!)and GCT where I spent many a night under the watchful eye of New Yorks finest on the benches that used to be in the Great Hall!Dont remember any homeless inside the station, most seemed to be in the subways and lower Manhattan around the flop house areas and the now oh so trendy lower east side!Riding on these trains was not Cary and Eva Marie in "North by North-West" but still seemed pretty glamourus to a young guy from Texas!!

 

[Bierboy]

What a great thread! From my sig, you can see I traveled the Northern Pacific's North Coast Limited several times in the 60s. We lived in the western suburbs of Chicago and had relatives in Washington State. Our first trip, my folks booked four coach seats, but, after the first night, mom couldn't take it, so we got two Slumbercoach compartments. They were similar to today's roomettes on eastern US LD trains (included a toilet/sink combo). The best memories I have of those two-day trips between Chicago and Seattle were the hours we whiled away up the dome cars. There's just no comparison to the Sightseer Lounge cars; the Vista Domes had nearly solid glass from one side up and over to the other side of the car. You could see the front and the back of the train and all around. And quiet?....boy was it nice up there. And, yes, my recollection as a teenager was that the food was good, but not head and shoulders better than today's food like some of you seem to be saying. The service was good, but, again, today you can get a great SCA or a not-so-great one.

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

i was looking through one of my train books today about the post-war "empire builder" and wishing i could have taken a ride on it. for those who have experienced the "golden age" how different was it from today's amtrak. the trains were more frequent but what was better than today's pacific parlour car? did there used to be the odd surly obs person? for the money, was the food that much better and so forth. thanks

As one who has ridden the Santa Fe Super Chief, the answer is, yes, it was really different. The ops crews could vary in their politeness, but the service crews were great. The food was great, there were no odd, surly employees to my recollection. The lounge steward went out to get drink orders. The cars were spotless, there were not giant plastic lined paper trash bags. The train was on time.

It was better than the PPC because the lounges were consistently staffed, and didn't mysteriously disappear (I am not talking about scheduled meal breaks). They had table service. Heck, I remember riding a San Diegan from LA to Anaheim when I was fifteen, and the lounge steward came to my table to get my drink order -- and the San Diegan was no Super Chief.

It is an entire lost world, and Amtrak is very different from it.

I had forgotten all about being served at your seat in the lounge car. I would often be on a train which had a buzzer you rang, and the attendant came to you,even if you were just a kid wanting a coke (diet cola not invented). I seem to recall a small tip was appreciated.

One morning mother and I were in the club lounge on the Georgian going from Chattanooga to Atlanta. A little kid across the aisle had discovered the buzzer and was ringing it frequently. His father was oblivious and had no idea where the noise was coming from. He, the father, was embarrased when he realized it was his own kid making the racket. Everybody else including the attendant, thought it was funny. (yeah, I know, it did not take much to amuse people back then)

Some of the busiest people on the train were attendants who served in a combination sleeper lounge car. It meant they had to be hopping back and forth between their occupants and their snackers and drinkers.